Well said Malc, once again N3V make an 'announcement' that has no substance or clarity and just provokes unwanted disagreements between member of the Trainz community.
Article: What is the “next” big thing for Trainz?
- Thread starter Tony_Hilliam
- Start date
Well said Malc, once again N3V make an 'announcement' that has no substance or clarity and just provokes unwanted disagreements between member of the Trainz community.
Simple, clear communication still seems to elude some people. You would have thought that by now they would have learned that what may be a clever turn of phrase for them can be totally misunderstood by some, even to the point of completely reversing the meaning. And then there are those that speak fluent geek and code but don't switch to plain English when answering simple questions. That or they are constrained by DNA and can't answer but still want to say something.
So we tend to read into their announcements what we want to hear, good things for those that are fans, bad things for the tinfoil crowd.
I feel that this is a hobby, something to pass the time. It's been fun so far. If future versions are just as fun, I'll continue. If not, I'll leave and stay with what I got. Nothing to get all wound up about.
So we tend to read into their announcements what we want to hear, good things for those that are fans, bad things for the tinfoil crowd.
I feel that this is a hobby, something to pass the time. It's been fun so far. If future versions are just as fun, I'll continue. If not, I'll leave and stay with what I got. Nothing to get all wound up about.
SERIOUSLY N3V??!!!!!
It's barely been a year (if that) since you released TANE, and now you're already talking about a new version? It's been a while since I posted anything on these forums, but as soon as got an email from y'all talking about this so-called "NEXT" version, I just had to say something. I've been a loyal Trainz fan since 2004, but after seeing what's been going on recently with you guys, I'm beginning to have my doubts. Between TS2009 and TS12, there hasn't really been any changes other than slight graphical and UI tweaks, as well as new DLC's. Then along came TANE. Ooh, the horror! After purchasing TANE, I could barely get it to run at 20 fps on the same settings as TS12 which ran at a buttery smooth 60fps (BTW, I have a fairly high end gaming PC). I do, however, applaud you guys for releasing SP1, which definitely made a substantial improvement to TANE, but perhaps next time, try putting in more time and beta testing before a new release.
Don't get me wrong. I understand you have a business to run, but please don't have us to buy a product only for you to abandon it shortly after. Instead, continue improving on the current product for a while. That way, you get more loyal customers and fans (like me) that will continue to buy your products, which of course means more money over the long run.
It's barely been a year (if that) since you released TANE, and now you're already talking about a new version? It's been a while since I posted anything on these forums, but as soon as got an email from y'all talking about this so-called "NEXT" version, I just had to say something. I've been a loyal Trainz fan since 2004, but after seeing what's been going on recently with you guys, I'm beginning to have my doubts. Between TS2009 and TS12, there hasn't really been any changes other than slight graphical and UI tweaks, as well as new DLC's. Then along came TANE. Ooh, the horror! After purchasing TANE, I could barely get it to run at 20 fps on the same settings as TS12 which ran at a buttery smooth 60fps (BTW, I have a fairly high end gaming PC). I do, however, applaud you guys for releasing SP1, which definitely made a substantial improvement to TANE, but perhaps next time, try putting in more time and beta testing before a new release.
Don't get me wrong. I understand you have a business to run, but please don't have us to buy a product only for you to abandon it shortly after. Instead, continue improving on the current product for a while. That way, you get more loyal customers and fans (like me) that will continue to buy your products, which of course means more money over the long run.
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Don't know what kind of butter you're using but on my not so high end laptop, T:ANE runs better than TS12 ever did. Guess it depends on how you define high end and whether it is properly adjusted. I see 40 to 60 FPS even with shadows on high.
1/N3V is not apple
2/ the only job you will do is on yourself
3/ why dont you concentrate on building in the improvements that some members have written code for and make them in game adjustable tweaks. Most of the work has been done for you.
4 your success has been largely due to third party creators working by themselves with some suggestions from others. Dont screw with success.
Hello Tony, sir ...
I totally agree with your comments here, and it seems that I was one of a very few that agree with your plans on the other thread! -- I guess because I don't over reacted, or overblow your latest concept until I see something concrete! That's what I have been saying, sir! Let's wait, and see how it pans out! Yet, the masses sadly thinks otherwise!
This quite, sir, is what people seem to miss, and in which I say, there could be more stuff and option available for the next version!
Tony's quite:
We’re not asking or expecting the entire user base to convert over to this system. Other options will be available. We’re just providing a new option for the people who want it, and we believe that quite a few people will in fact want it. And historically Trainz has been pretty much equal between the creative aspect and the driving aspect.
Take care, sir
Ish
ShadowRock
Member
Hi @ all,
at first I want to point out that I'm really looking for a coop-surveyor option since - yea, basically since I started my Trainz-"career" back in 2004/5. So I think this could really become the next big thing for the sim. I'm pretty sure that such a feature will allow us to accelerate route-developing by many times. Today we need months, sometimes even years, to create one route - and this does not necessarily mean that this route will in the end be 100% accurate. As Tony pointed out: Some users are talented in the filed of artistic landscaping, others are experts when it comes to setup signals in a prototypical manner.
The most time consuming thing, when it comes to create a route together with others users, is the exchange of files between them. When user A is working on the route, user(s) B,... have to wait until they can put their hands on. This is especially annoying when both or more users could actually work together (parallel), because they all have free time, but can't because of the ongoing occupation by another user. There's so much potential, we could archive so much more in less time. And it's not just time saving, but also a good way to decide _together_ how things will be done in the route. Today we have to discuss things via TeamSpeak, Forum, or whatever else, but with a coop-surveyor we could do this in seconds, and everyone would be able to participate in the discussion nearly instantly.
About the subscription model: I also would like to know more about it, because in general, I'm not a real fan of monthly payment for a product. Maybe it's old fashioned but I really like to pay for a product once an use it on whatever occasion.
Greetings
at first I want to point out that I'm really looking for a coop-surveyor option since - yea, basically since I started my Trainz-"career" back in 2004/5. So I think this could really become the next big thing for the sim. I'm pretty sure that such a feature will allow us to accelerate route-developing by many times. Today we need months, sometimes even years, to create one route - and this does not necessarily mean that this route will in the end be 100% accurate. As Tony pointed out: Some users are talented in the filed of artistic landscaping, others are experts when it comes to setup signals in a prototypical manner.
The most time consuming thing, when it comes to create a route together with others users, is the exchange of files between them. When user A is working on the route, user(s) B,... have to wait until they can put their hands on. This is especially annoying when both or more users could actually work together (parallel), because they all have free time, but can't because of the ongoing occupation by another user. There's so much potential, we could archive so much more in less time. And it's not just time saving, but also a good way to decide _together_ how things will be done in the route. Today we have to discuss things via TeamSpeak, Forum, or whatever else, but with a coop-surveyor we could do this in seconds, and everyone would be able to participate in the discussion nearly instantly.
About the subscription model: I also would like to know more about it, because in general, I'm not a real fan of monthly payment for a product. Maybe it's old fashioned but I really like to pay for a product once an use it on whatever occasion.
Greetings
I am not interested a lot about virtual driving trains, I simply like to build “my own little world”. Relative simplicity, great diversity and thousands of different objects offers me this opportunity in Trainz. I build invisible rail tracks through air to “fly” through my little personal Trainz worlds. Oh how I wished to have a hot air balloon or Zeppelin to freely, slowly fly around and simply enjoy in different angles of sights on country and moving trains under me.
And this is my firs suggestion and big wish in Trainz game. This kind of flying system would bring a totally new dimension into Trainz game! You can simply use drive engine of locomotive to drive Zeppelin for example.
As personal computers are ever more graphically powerful and accordingly graphics is ever better I believe this idea will further gain in worth through time.
My second suggestion is related to first one. When one is oriented to drive trains than appearance of landscape maybe seems less important. But when you are oriented on beauty of landscape you don’t need miles of routes, you need a little square of your own world of lakes, hills, villages, roads, fields, gardens and TILED GROUNDS.
And here we meet the biggest visual drawback of Trainz considering appearance of landscape! Because you can’t make ages of tiles sharp enough, you can’t draw clear lines between different fields in landscape and even worse, you can’t make clear, distinctive and diverse foundations of houses and other ground objects with tiles (you can do this in limited extent with different ground objects like fences, roads, blocks etc..).
This visual drawback of Trainz is so prevailing that it is impossible to build flawlessly any detailed realistic landscapes (with all kind of gardens and tiled grounds) and because of this by my opinion Trainz loses realism and attractiveness drastically. Because of this I actually lost interest on building my fantasy worlds in Trainz editor.
I hoped in new version TANE development team will bring out appropriate solution on this matter but everything stayed unchanged. I still hope this problem will be addressed and solved in near future. Until than I putted Trainz game on side track.
And this is my firs suggestion and big wish in Trainz game. This kind of flying system would bring a totally new dimension into Trainz game! You can simply use drive engine of locomotive to drive Zeppelin for example.
As personal computers are ever more graphically powerful and accordingly graphics is ever better I believe this idea will further gain in worth through time.
My second suggestion is related to first one. When one is oriented to drive trains than appearance of landscape maybe seems less important. But when you are oriented on beauty of landscape you don’t need miles of routes, you need a little square of your own world of lakes, hills, villages, roads, fields, gardens and TILED GROUNDS.
And here we meet the biggest visual drawback of Trainz considering appearance of landscape! Because you can’t make ages of tiles sharp enough, you can’t draw clear lines between different fields in landscape and even worse, you can’t make clear, distinctive and diverse foundations of houses and other ground objects with tiles (you can do this in limited extent with different ground objects like fences, roads, blocks etc..).
This visual drawback of Trainz is so prevailing that it is impossible to build flawlessly any detailed realistic landscapes (with all kind of gardens and tiled grounds) and because of this by my opinion Trainz loses realism and attractiveness drastically. Because of this I actually lost interest on building my fantasy worlds in Trainz editor.
I hoped in new version TANE development team will bring out appropriate solution on this matter but everything stayed unchanged. I still hope this problem will be addressed and solved in near future. Until than I putted Trainz game on side track.
I agree with you on this, the N3V team have gone to great lengths to create a new core game engine but the feature of better landscaping tools, appears to have slipped through the net. Personally I cannot understand why people enjoy driving a train across the Mojave desert, but if they do then, fair enough. BUT give content creators enough information and help to produce what could be life changing 'layouts'. (Luxury flats and Porsche cars optional).
Chris M
Of course this is all doable to a certain degree right now. Use the Paint F2 for the broad strokes that cover large areas. Then use scenery objects to create the detailed parts like small gardens, hard-edged fields, etc. Remember to use the high poly objects sparingly and only in places where you will actually see the difference. Otherwise you'll be complaining about poor performance as your computer and GPU struggle to render all that lovely detail.
The degree is what's in question here Martin. I'm not looking for anything fancy, just 'finer' control of terrain & ground textures - maybe it's just not technically possible without major work, if that's the case it would be good if N3V just said so and have done with it.
Meanwhile we can dream
!Chris M
I suspect it would need a complete redesign of the grid which would probably break backwards compatibility.
Basically the grid is made of polys and when applying ground textures you are applying the texture to the faces of those polygons which are square. You could I suppose go for a hexagonal or even octagonal grid or go for a 2.5m grid however that would dramatically increase the load on the game engine by having a massive amount of polys to render, in which case probably even the high end PC's would be struggling.
Meanwhile we are stuck with having to create bits of scenery to join the dots as it were.
Thinking back a way did not Chris Bergman mention that they might look at ways to at least get a near vertical edge using the terrain tools?
Basically the grid is made of polys and when applying ground textures you are applying the texture to the faces of those polygons which are square. You could I suppose go for a hexagonal or even octagonal grid or go for a 2.5m grid however that would dramatically increase the load on the game engine by having a massive amount of polys to render, in which case probably even the high end PC's would be struggling.
Meanwhile we are stuck with having to create bits of scenery to join the dots as it were.
Thinking back a way did not Chris Bergman mention that they might look at ways to at least get a near vertical edge using the terrain tools?
not more of the same.
Here we go again. They are offering us more of the same. What is new in this that we can get to work without patches? If trainz community was not so fragmented then I would be so over the moon about this.
This is just another product to fragment us even further. the whole system need to have a cleaner put through it and start getting us maps builders something that we can work with. there is a lot of mods that are still behind close doors and will not see the daylight.
more building as mods and more type of track would be a start to the improvement of the user friendly. I for one still has not gone with TANE. and I'm still working with TS12.
anyway I have had my say on this subject.
Here we go again. They are offering us more of the same. What is new in this that we can get to work without patches? If trainz community was not so fragmented then I would be so over the moon about this.
This is just another product to fragment us even further. the whole system need to have a cleaner put through it and start getting us maps builders something that we can work with. there is a lot of mods that are still behind close doors and will not see the daylight.
more building as mods and more type of track would be a start to the improvement of the user friendly. I for one still has not gone with TANE. and I'm still working with TS12.
anyway I have had my say on this subject.
BlakeAnderson
New member
In terms of the subscription model, this runs the risk of alienating quite a few users, particularly those who are on a fixed income or young users. Some clarification may be needed on what the options are for those who don't want to use the multiplayer surveyor facilities.
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Malc
It was probably said in relation to the 5 metre grid which nobody seems to mention these days, it is still available in T:ane
Peter
It was probably said in relation to the 5 metre grid which nobody seems to mention these days, it is still available in T:ane
Peter
Improved terrain tools were on the list of potential features for TANE during the Kickstarter campaign but did not get enough votes to make the release.
The current (rather crude) terrain forming tools constrict the route builder's options and could do with improving. I'm only guessing but, based on what I see with the Sandbox versions of other games, I would say it's possible to provide more and better terrain forming and texture painting tools without going beyond the current 5m grid option. Chris Bergmann (Windwalkr) is the person best placed to comment on this.
The big dilemma is that all enhancements cost money and must either be funded directly (as with Kickstarter) or from revenues (which means people will see the enhancement as being worth paying good money for). With enhancements like improved terrain (and therefore improved realism & visuals) it would take a while for the better quality content (routes) to become available and start paying back monies invested and remember that N3V is, after all, a business !
Chris M
The current (rather crude) terrain forming tools constrict the route builder's options and could do with improving. I'm only guessing but, based on what I see with the Sandbox versions of other games, I would say it's possible to provide more and better terrain forming and texture painting tools without going beyond the current 5m grid option. Chris Bergmann (Windwalkr) is the person best placed to comment on this.
The big dilemma is that all enhancements cost money and must either be funded directly (as with Kickstarter) or from revenues (which means people will see the enhancement as being worth paying good money for). With enhancements like improved terrain (and therefore improved realism & visuals) it would take a while for the better quality content (routes) to become available and start paying back monies invested and remember that N3V is, after all, a business !
Chris M
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I've used Trainz '06, '12, and ANE. I just read the article on "NEXT."
First of all, I am not interested in subscription access. Microsoft is trying to sell me subscription-based access to Microsoft Access, and I'm not going for it. If they don't stop, I'll just switch to LibreOffice and be done with them.
As for collaborations, people have been collaborating for years without a specialized online collaborative version of Trainz (e.g. Trainz Pro Routes). I'd rather continue with improved single-user functionality and better performance than make an investment in what only a few collaborators are likely to use.
I'd rather that NV3 finish the "new" portal and make it better align with the Content Manager. (E.g. a "Route" in one is a "Layout" in another).
-- Russ Schwartz (aka "LoudTrain")
First of all, I am not interested in subscription access. Microsoft is trying to sell me subscription-based access to Microsoft Access, and I'm not going for it. If they don't stop, I'll just switch to LibreOffice and be done with them.
As for collaborations, people have been collaborating for years without a specialized online collaborative version of Trainz (e.g. Trainz Pro Routes). I'd rather continue with improved single-user functionality and better performance than make an investment in what only a few collaborators are likely to use.
I'd rather that NV3 finish the "new" portal and make it better align with the Content Manager. (E.g. a "Route" in one is a "Layout" in another).
-- Russ Schwartz (aka "LoudTrain")
