An open letter to my fellow Trainz users.
- Thread starter narrowgauge
- Start date
Thanks for the OP. Have also been around here for more years than I care to remember and there has been a definite change in the overall feeling of the forums.
Back in the day, when Trainz was new and everyone was discovering it, the comradery and sharing of new discoveries was a big part of the forum messages. If on occasion I don't answer in detail how to do something, I can only plead that answering the same question over and over gets old real fast. I know it's no excuse and the questioner still doesn't know. Anyone have a better solution?
As for TANE and the lack of design spec for content creators, I can very well understand the reluctance of releasing any spec if there is still the possibility that they may have to be changed in order to solve another issue. Better to delay spec details than have to correct erroneous specs. Been working on creating my own procedural track and know that some things have been changing since they first were presented. Fully expect some final adjustments will be necessary before they are ready but that is just part of the process. Complaining about this aspect would be rather poor form.
It is possible to like and enjoy Trainz, but not the situation which has arisen around the development of TANE. Justin's (NS37) kind of sums up the situation for the none-cheerleaders quite eloquently and is a useful insight into just what might have gone wrong. So long as it is constructive, polite and within the forum CoC there is no reason why people should not be entitled to express their opinion. Along with most of the others who feel N3V have dropped the ball (just a bit!) I've said my piece in various threads and content to wait on the sidelines to see what/if anything emerges on 15th May and take it from there. However I have a sneaky feeling if N3V miss another deadline or TANe feels to meet the expectations N3V themselves were setting 15 months ago...you ain't seen nothing yet.
Also worth repeating again, N3V are *not* a charity. They are a commercial organisation that took good money off good people up front to develop TANE and there's still not that much to see on a return for the investment.
In the meantime I'm happy enough plodding round building routes in TS12 (or earlier) and posting on the subject where there is something worthwhile saying.
Also worth repeating again, N3V are *not* a charity. They are a commercial organisation that took good money off good people up front to develop TANE and there's still not that much to see on a return for the investment.
In the meantime I'm happy enough plodding round building routes in TS12 (or earlier) and posting on the subject where there is something worthwhile saying.
From this it would seem to be obvious that you are content that Auran should just be left to produce something and trusted to get it right. I understand and share NS37's disappointment that Auran continually fail to take advantage of the ideas and experiences of third parties by refusing to discuss and share what they are doing whilst they are doing it. The Pioneer Council idea seems to have paid nothing more than lip service to this.
I prefer to think that having an occasional whinge can prompt them to produce something better. This seems to have been borne out in the alterations to sleeper spacing between the first and current public builds and the fact that I've just received an email about existing fixed track junctions after having recently been blunt about their lack of implementation.
If Auran had shared their intentions in respect of junctions and details of their implementation in real time there would have been a fighting chance of a range of new assets being available at release. The same would be true of other asset types. As the process stands there is no way that anything new will be available for quite some time.
Ignoring the rude ones which are just plain bad manners, negative posts on this forum are generally a reflection of frustration which is due to the project being incomplete and obviously behind schedule. By releasing half finished code for public consumption (rather than simply saying 'Sorry we're running late') I'm afraid that the publishers have brought this upon themselves.
I don't know. I seem to remember some negativity here around each Trainz release. People complaining about nothing new in the new version; about Auran / N3V braking backwards compatibility 'on purpose'; about people uploading content that requires new versions of Trainz; flamewars about other sims being better / worse than Trainz, etc, etc.
Maybe the forums are less helpful than before, but maybe I'm not looking for as much help as 'in the old days'. I don't know.
The negativity does get old, though.....
I do appreciate the developers poking their heads in from time to time - that hasn't always been the case, and it is definitely a change for the better.
All in my humble opinion ;-)
Curtis
edit and OT: Good to hear you heard something about fixed track junctions, Andi!
Maybe the forums are less helpful than before, but maybe I'm not looking for as much help as 'in the old days'. I don't know.
The negativity does get old, though.....
I do appreciate the developers poking their heads in from time to time - that hasn't always been the case, and it is definitely a change for the better.
All in my humble opinion ;-)
Curtis
edit and OT: Good to hear you heard something about fixed track junctions, Andi!
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Hi everybody.
I am aged 71, luckily fully fit and still working full time at least until August or September this year. I did retire in October 2013 originally but after a few months I went back to the company to “give a hand” for a couple of weeks and I am still there (LOL) but that’s another story.
I have been with trainz as an interest/hobby for a very long time, but my first passion has always been football by way of the English Premier League and Manchester United. My wife and me also enjoy walking and are out in that respect whenever we can, in all weathers both summer and winter. Whenever I have to start my day in the office, we walk together to our place of work which is one and three-quarter miles from our home. My point in stating the foregoing is that I firmly believe that having a diversity of interests is the key to an enjoyable and more interesting life.
The above stated, there is however in this Trainz community a considerable number in which it appears that Trainz has become a very large part if not their sole interest in life. I can understand with older members of the forum less lucky than myself and who may have mobility problems, how this simulator could become their main outlet and passion in life allowing them to forget other problems. But there also appears to be another group of much younger people here on the forum who seem to spend many hours with Trainz and allow it to become an obsession which their lives are totally wrapped up in to the deference of all else.
As evidence to the above, there is currently on the forum a thread which invites members to state how their many hours on Trainz have affected their health. In replying to the thread members have given details of eyesight problems, mobility problems from lack of exercise and easily getting stressed with people around them. Two weeks ago in another thread, a young member was advising how his excessive time spent on this simulator had affected his college work and examination results and many others in times past have stated the same.
I find in considering the above it is quite easy to realise how the above passions can be transferred into postings on this forum. When something becomes a large part a person life and perhaps their soul interest, it is quite easy to see how those persons will go into attack mode immediately on seeing someone post in a thread something which they consider to be detrimental to this simulator or the company and people that produce it. They have a tunnel vision that N3V have never done anything incorrectly or not as proficient as it should be and never will.
The foregoing tunnel vision can also be in effect when it comes to real life railways. A posting with a comment that a train operating company may have been inefficient or responsible or some incident usually brings degradation of the forum member for even thinking that railroad companies can get anything wrong.
From all the above I believe it is easy to see how flame wars, arguments and personal abuse erupt on this forum. Those who only have one interest in life will defend that interest no matter who that may upset. For they see members attacking what means most to them in their lives and that I find in a limited context understandable.
As I stated in paragraph two, having a diversity of interests keeps the steady balance on living and what is important and what is not within it. Perhaps some on this forum just need to get out a little more.
Bill
I am aged 71, luckily fully fit and still working full time at least until August or September this year. I did retire in October 2013 originally but after a few months I went back to the company to “give a hand” for a couple of weeks and I am still there (LOL) but that’s another story.
I have been with trainz as an interest/hobby for a very long time, but my first passion has always been football by way of the English Premier League and Manchester United. My wife and me also enjoy walking and are out in that respect whenever we can, in all weathers both summer and winter. Whenever I have to start my day in the office, we walk together to our place of work which is one and three-quarter miles from our home. My point in stating the foregoing is that I firmly believe that having a diversity of interests is the key to an enjoyable and more interesting life.
The above stated, there is however in this Trainz community a considerable number in which it appears that Trainz has become a very large part if not their sole interest in life. I can understand with older members of the forum less lucky than myself and who may have mobility problems, how this simulator could become their main outlet and passion in life allowing them to forget other problems. But there also appears to be another group of much younger people here on the forum who seem to spend many hours with Trainz and allow it to become an obsession which their lives are totally wrapped up in to the deference of all else.
As evidence to the above, there is currently on the forum a thread which invites members to state how their many hours on Trainz have affected their health. In replying to the thread members have given details of eyesight problems, mobility problems from lack of exercise and easily getting stressed with people around them. Two weeks ago in another thread, a young member was advising how his excessive time spent on this simulator had affected his college work and examination results and many others in times past have stated the same.
I find in considering the above it is quite easy to realise how the above passions can be transferred into postings on this forum. When something becomes a large part a person life and perhaps their soul interest, it is quite easy to see how those persons will go into attack mode immediately on seeing someone post in a thread something which they consider to be detrimental to this simulator or the company and people that produce it. They have a tunnel vision that N3V have never done anything incorrectly or not as proficient as it should be and never will.
The foregoing tunnel vision can also be in effect when it comes to real life railways. A posting with a comment that a train operating company may have been inefficient or responsible or some incident usually brings degradation of the forum member for even thinking that railroad companies can get anything wrong.
From all the above I believe it is easy to see how flame wars, arguments and personal abuse erupt on this forum. Those who only have one interest in life will defend that interest no matter who that may upset. For they see members attacking what means most to them in their lives and that I find in a limited context understandable.
As I stated in paragraph two, having a diversity of interests keeps the steady balance on living and what is important and what is not within it. Perhaps some on this forum just need to get out a little more.
Bill
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LandShark229
The Broken Brilliance
The dev team has poured their heart and soul into T:ANE, so who are we to respond purely with demoralizing criticism? From personal experience in my outside job I understand the frustration of long periods of hard work or labor being overlooked in favor of what something looks like on the surface.
Nothing hurts me more personally than receiving heartless and demoralizing criticism after a long development process. Think about how the T:ANE dev team feels about all of this! I can certainly tell you that they've done far more than just "reskinning TS12 with shadows."
We need to show more appreciation for time spent on this
Nothing hurts me more personally than receiving heartless and demoralizing criticism after a long development process. Think about how the T:ANE dev team feels about all of this! I can certainly tell you that they've done far more than just "reskinning TS12 with shadows."
We need to show more appreciation for time spent on this
I think I was not clear on what I meant by that remark. I meant that revealing the design specs before they are set in stone would cause more troubles with people using them and then complaining when they inevitably change than not saying anything explicitly. Even without any specs, I was still able to make my version of the new type of track and by having to experiment, I probably learned a few things too, part of the fun. And that is a big part of the motivation - fun. If I was being paid, I would not do it this way. I have to believe that our comments and suggestions during the testing are being used to produce a better product. If not, then there are bigger issues going on.
As long as the "whinge" is a comment or suggestion, no problem. Where I feel it goes off the rails is when it turns into a rant or diatribe.
LandShark229
The Broken Brilliance
Perhaps we could organize a developer-community q&a or discussion? At the host's discretion, the possibility of limiting entries to members who have shown self control and respect could be considered.
Yeah, it's nothing like the good old days when all we had to worry about was how many hours the update patches would take to finish! 
It's the decline of the civilised world I'm afraid. The Internet empowers those who wouldn't normally be heard, which is a good thing in most cases, but in some cases, it just means having to listen to venting from people who don't yet have the capacity to debate in a reasonable manner.
Fire in the belly is a good thing (people who remember me will vouch for that :hehe: ), but in moderation.
Good to see a nice amount of the old guard here, still fighting the good fight!
I have a question about T:ANE, but I'll post it in a new thread.
Smiley.
(Remember when some people got annoyed because I kept ending my posts with my username? lol)
It's the decline of the civilised world I'm afraid. The Internet empowers those who wouldn't normally be heard, which is a good thing in most cases, but in some cases, it just means having to listen to venting from people who don't yet have the capacity to debate in a reasonable manner.
Fire in the belly is a good thing (people who remember me will vouch for that :hehe: ), but in moderation.
Good to see a nice amount of the old guard here, still fighting the good fight!
I have a question about T:ANE, but I'll post it in a new thread.
Smiley.
(Remember when some people got annoyed because I kept ending my posts with my username? lol)
PeruvianLlama
British Trainz
Hello Smiley. I hope everything's okay for you.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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Reading Justin's (norfolksouthern37), Paul Hobbs's and Andy06's responses in this thread makes me wonder, when now even eminent/prominent/very good content creators such as these 3 voice their concern here (there might be even more content creators voicing their discord/concern/whatever about the way TANE is proceeding in some other threads), what chances have we mere mortal content creators to create for TANE?
Let me explain, some of my created specifically for TS12 V61388 items, which work faultless in that TS12 version but do not yet do the same in any of the 3 released TANE versions. I know these are still beta versions but some of the features stated that work, obviously still do not and show errors in any of the TANE beta versions. It was stated, nightmode was already fixed, it was obviously not as the "constant" nightmode tag still does not work. Examples which are not working were given by me to the powers that be in the CE 1.1 edition.
Some locomotive auto numbering is still not satisfactory, these were working faultless with any of my created TS12 locomotives in TS12 61388, yet some of these do show different in the TANE betas. I guess, this is an alpha issue, as on some of these I only see the place holder textures instead of the numbers. Why, usually the alpha numbers were the same textures or were made the same way as all my other alpha numbers made?
It really knocks the stuffing out of a content creator's urge to create, not knowing what will work or what will be fixed by May 2015 and what perhaps might be a dud at release. I have not looked into my 3DS Max for over 3 months, I was told by some other creators, neither did they. For very good reasons, as we are blind not knowing how to create for TANE, hence Justin's, Paul Hobbs's and Andy06's frustrations in venting their reservations/anger/predictions or whatever posted by them here.
Again, I know these are only beta versions but hey, a release candidate?
Frustrated
VinnyBarb
Let me explain, some of my created specifically for TS12 V61388 items, which work faultless in that TS12 version but do not yet do the same in any of the 3 released TANE versions. I know these are still beta versions but some of the features stated that work, obviously still do not and show errors in any of the TANE beta versions. It was stated, nightmode was already fixed, it was obviously not as the "constant" nightmode tag still does not work. Examples which are not working were given by me to the powers that be in the CE 1.1 edition.
Some locomotive auto numbering is still not satisfactory, these were working faultless with any of my created TS12 locomotives in TS12 61388, yet some of these do show different in the TANE betas. I guess, this is an alpha issue, as on some of these I only see the place holder textures instead of the numbers. Why, usually the alpha numbers were the same textures or were made the same way as all my other alpha numbers made?
It really knocks the stuffing out of a content creator's urge to create, not knowing what will work or what will be fixed by May 2015 and what perhaps might be a dud at release. I have not looked into my 3DS Max for over 3 months, I was told by some other creators, neither did they. For very good reasons, as we are blind not knowing how to create for TANE, hence Justin's, Paul Hobbs's and Andy06's frustrations in venting their reservations/anger/predictions or whatever posted by them here.
Again, I know these are only beta versions but hey, a release candidate?
Frustrated
VinnyBarb
And then the other half are complaining they haven't got anything, so they were given a sample of what they can expect. It seems to me they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. So whatever they do, it makes no difference, either the left half will moan and disagree, and if they are satisfied, then the right half will moan and disagree ah.
And I don't think "public consumption" is really the right words when it was only released to a limited number of the trainz community.
amigacooke
Well-known member
At least this thread shows there is still interest in Trainz. If you don't care, you don't post.
Yeah, it's nothing like the good old days when all we had to worry about was how many hours the update patches would take to finish!
It's the decline of the civilised world I'm afraid. The Internet empowers those who wouldn't normally be heard, which is a good thing in most cases, but in some cases, it just means having to listen to venting from people who don't yet have the capacity to debate in a reasonable manner.
Fire in the belly is a good thing (people who remember me will vouch for that :hehe: ), but in moderation.
Good to see a nice amount of the old guard here, still fighting the good fight!
I have a question about T:ANE, but I'll post it in a new thread.
Smiley.
(Remember when some people got annoyed because I kept ending my posts with my username? lol)
Hello Smiley, sir --
How have you been?
Long time don't see!
As always, and as usual, well said post, isr!
Take care!
Ishie
Hello Arthur.
Yes, I'm very well thanks. Hoping T:ANE will live up to the hype, and get me back into Trainz.
Hope you're well.
Hey Ish.
How's it going?
Can you believe it's been around 10 years since StopGap? Probably more!
The good old Trainz days.
Fingers crossed for T:ANE.
Smiley.
Yes, I'm very well thanks. Hoping T:ANE will live up to the hype, and get me back into Trainz.
Hope you're well.
Hey Ish.
How's it going?
Can you believe it's been around 10 years since StopGap? Probably more!
The good old Trainz days.
Fingers crossed for T:ANE.
Smiley.
Hi Smiley,
Oh, yes, sir, the memories, indeed -- Stopgap one of the first, or perhaps the first 3rd party program you've created to help us lost souls organized trainz files! And, I guess, that's the point of this thread -- Good old folks, like you sir, leave; However, we are thankful, at least I am, that you are still lurking around! As for TANE, to be honest, I am just happy to run it on a 64 bit system -- With today's high power pc's, TANE should function as advertised!
Doing good -- health issues at 43 is a problem, but hey, it's life! I spend it in trainz, when not with the family!
Oh yeah -- for the newbies, take a peak -
Had the images of smileyman's stopgap posted here, but it just disappear, had to edit with these words --- a program ahead of its' time!!!
Take Care SM!!!
Ishie
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Hi Guys,
What pulled me into this thread is seeing all the old timers that have been with Trainz since the beginning. Been at it since the first retail version came out and still going and Ish, 43 is still young. I fought Leukemia and won. Been in remission for three years now and still going strong at sixty. It's good to still see so many of us still around. I have a couple of models that are just about ready to upload to the DLS so I am still in the modeling business. One of them is a crossover tunnel for loops like the Williams loop on the Feather River Route. I finally got the textures to adhere in the right direction on the model. For some reason Trainz was turning the texture off angle. Will upload soon and make an announcement.
Jack
What pulled me into this thread is seeing all the old timers that have been with Trainz since the beginning. Been at it since the first retail version came out and still going and Ish, 43 is still young. I fought Leukemia and won. Been in remission for three years now and still going strong at sixty. It's good to still see so many of us still around. I have a couple of models that are just about ready to upload to the DLS so I am still in the modeling business. One of them is a crossover tunnel for loops like the Williams loop on the Feather River Route. I finally got the textures to adhere in the right direction on the model. For some reason Trainz was turning the texture off angle. Will upload soon and make an announcement.
Jack
It's nice to see you back in action, Jack. I was worried when I had heard you were ill. Keep pushing and keep doing.
I too fight every day myself with Parkinson's Disease. It's taken my career away but not my will to keep fighting and route building in Trainz.
John
I agree, Bill. We all need to get out and blow the stink off of us once in awhile. I too can see how an obsession can turn people into warring factions as their point of view becomes THE point of view. This is one of the reasons why I say to step away when things get too hot. Stepping out lets the air clear the brain and reasonable thoughts might seep in in the process.
Railroads and any form of transport on steel rails have fascinated me since I was quite young. My first exposure was being brought across the street from the apartment to see the freight trains in the freight yard below. I was probably about 2 years old at the time. With the discovery of rail simulations and then purchasing TRS2004 in December 2003, this has become my railroad fix as I work on my model railroad of my dreams among other projects. But, like everything else this is a tiny part of what I do as I need to step away to refresh the mind and think better.
Having said that, when I'm not using Trainz and poking in the forums here, I'm playing the piano. Yes, even with Parkinson's I can still do that when the medication is working well. I get in about 2 to 3 hours per day now; up from an hour or less previously before the great magic combination of things. At the present time, I'm rebuilding Beethoven's Op. 22 piano sonata and a couple of Chopin Nocturne's. If not music, my other interest is severe storms and when my finances allow I go out storm chasing with a group. Right now, though I'm not chasing this year, I'm watching the weather reports diligently and following the severe storm center outlooks daily. Like everything else, this too can become an obsession for some people to a point where it's become detrimental to their livelihood and financial stability. I'm not that bad yet...., besides the Trainz fix is a lot less expensive.
John