An open letter to my fellow Trainz users.

[narrowgauge]

First of all my pedigree.
I have been using Trainz and making content, and have been active on this forum for 13+ years since its release in November 2001. Claiming this as a degree of seniority I feel I can make what I consider are some valid comments.

The general tone of the forum has changed from being a friendly place with helpful people to somewhere where rudeness, bad manners and intolerance are common. It reminds me of a bunch of old women discussing the neigbours, each one trying to outdo the others with a bit of 'catty' juicy gossip.

This has become very evident with the advent of T:ANE, negative comments are made without consideration of whether they are accurate or necessary. So many posts about T:ANE ignore the fact that we are seeing development stages and not the finished product. Typical of this are posts like 'It looks like TS12 with shadows', thoughtless, because of course it does, every screenshot has to use existing content and nothing has yet been made expressly for T:ANE. So why post? No-one seems to consider that one of the strengths (and difficulties in coding the new engine) of T:ANE is that it can/will use existing content, think of the forum reaction if Tony had said 'Yes, you will get it by Christmas 2014, but it will need all new content'

Guys, please, lighten up. Consider what you are about to post, is it 'negative gossip' or is it something that is valid and important, that will contribute to the experience and pleasure of our fellow forum members. Especially, cut back on the negativity, it is not helpful, necessary or productive.

Disclaimer. I am not employed by N3V, my only connection with them has been my hobby, enabled by my enjoyment of their product for those 13 years.

Peter

 

[generalman]

Hit the nail on the head with everything I've wanted to say for a while... Thank you.

 

[jkinzel]

My thoughts exactly. Thank you Peter.

 

[JCitron]

My thoughts too and well said, Peter.

Thank you for posting this.

John

 

[dragonharh]

i agree as well too much has changed for the worst.

 

[Zeldaboy14]

Well put. This is how I feel the trainz forums.

 

[boc61]

Unfortunately, it isn't any better elsewhere, it's not just here. The internet is pretty much a cesspool no matter where you go.

 

[NSWGR_46Class]

One thing that is missing and I am going to get jumped all over for saying this is, currently we have a lack of moderation.

In time past there was almost a moderator on duty 24/7 covering all time zones so if anybody stepped up they were corrected then and there and the offending post sorted out ASAP and the offender learned quickly what was acceptable.

Currently it in maybe 2 - 3 days before a post comes to attention of a moderator and by then the damage is done. Plus there were not so many grey areas in the moderation - I am so surprised at how many bans I used serve - these days I just push the boundaries and will do so until I am told to stop , that is just human nature.

 

[VinnyBarb]

Well said Peter, could not agree more with what you are saying.

VinnyBarb

 

[davesnow]

I agree Peter.

The thing is, there are a few idiots out there who are so filled with low self esteem, they use the Internet to make themselves look like "big men" when all they are doing is making them selves look like jerks. They aren't fooling anyone. When I see people making negative comments or just being ass holes, they go on my ignore list very quickly.

Cheers

Dave

 

[iannz]

One thing that is missing and I am going to get jumped all over for saying this is, currently we have a lack of moderation.

In time past there was almost a moderator on duty 24/7 covering all time zones so if anybody stepped up they were corrected then and there and the offending post sorted out ASAP and the offender learned quickly what was acceptable.

Currently it in maybe 2 - 3 days before a post comes to attention of a moderator and by then the damage is done. Plus there were not so many grey areas in the moderation - I am so surprised at how many bans I used serve - these days I just push the boundaries and will do so until I am told to stop , that is just human nature.

No, I don't believe it is human nature to push the boundaries until told when to stop. There are such things as being responsible for your own actions and stopping when you feel you are doing something wrong or going to far. Why wait until someone else tells you that you are doing wrong, are you not capable of realising yourself that you're doing something wrong or going to far. Shifting the blame from oneself is far to easy these days.
Do you jump off the cliff just because there is no sign that says don't jump off the cliff, or consider it first and realise there are consequences if you do (in this case probably death).

And that's what the OP is asking for, that members consider what they are about to post and what impact that will have before hitting the submit reply button. Ultimately, it is the poster responsible for their posts, not the moderator.

Wise words from the OP and those who have followed on, I concur 100%.

 

[charlieencin]

First of all my pedigree.
I have been using Trainz and making content, and have been active on this forum for 13+ years since its release in November 2001. Claiming this as a degree of seniority I feel I can make what I consider are some valid comments.

The general tone of the forum has changed from being a friendly place with helpful people to somewhere where rudeness, bad manners and intolerance are common. It reminds me of a bunch of old women discussing the neigbours, each one trying to outdo the others with a bit of 'catty' juicy gossip.

This has become very evident with the advent of T:ANE, negative comments are made without consideration of whether they are accurate or necessary. So many posts about T:ANE ignore the fact that we are seeing development stages and not the finished product. Typical of this are posts like 'It looks like TS12 with shadows', thoughtless, because of course it does, every screenshot has to use existing content and nothing has yet been made expressly for T:ANE. So why post? No-one seems to consider that one of the strengths (and difficulties in coding the new engine) of T:ANE is that it can/will use existing content, think of the forum reaction if Tony had said 'Yes, you will get it by Christmas 2014, but it will need all new content'

Guys, please, lighten up. Consider what you are about to post, is it 'negative gossip' or is it something that is valid and important, that will contribute to the experience and pleasure of our fellow forum members. Especially, cut back on the negativity, it is not helpful, necessary or productive.

Disclaimer. I am not employed by N3V, my only connection with them has been my hobby, enabled by my enjoyment of their product for those 13 years.

Peter

\

Thanks for saying this,,,so well put,,,we all needed to hear it,,,!! and to moderate ourselves....

Chuck

 

[NSWGR_46Class]

Unfortunately being responsible for ones own actions is no longer a concept that rings true in our modern society. If it was not human nature to push boundaries there would be no need for police to issue speeding fines.

As to TANE I was under the impression that we were past beta test stage and now at the release state of the venture - this would mean time for big bug fixes was gone.

No, I don't believe it is human nature to push the boundaries until told when to stop. There are such things as being responsible for your own actions and stopping when you feel you are doing something wrong or going to far. Why wait until someone else tells you that you are doing wrong, are you not capable of realising yourself that you're doing something wrong or going to far. Shifting the blame from oneself is far to easy these days.
Do you jump off the cliff just because there is no sign that says don't jump off the cliff, or consider it first and realise there are consequences if you do (in this case probably death).

And that's what the OP is asking for, that members consider what they are about to post and what impact that will have before hitting the submit reply button. Ultimately, it is the poster responsible for their posts, not the moderator.

Wise words from the OP and those who have followed on, I concur 100%.

 

[RRSignal]

Unfortunately, it isn't any better elsewhere, it's not just here. The internet is pretty much a cesspool no matter where you go.

While I generally agree, software/gaming/computer-related forums seem to be particularly bad. I don't know what it is about certain hardware or software products, but there is often a very fanatical, anything-goes, can-do-no-wrong element following them. On top it, there are usually at least a few guys who think they're big fish in a small pond.

As for T:ANE, while I'm not personally participating in the beta program, I have high hopes for it, and would like to give the guys down under a chance to get it together.

 

[NSWGR_46Class]

Rather interesting how two people have been on the forums with roughly the same background with two completely different experiences.

I have found mostly people on these forums to be quite rude and uncooperative from day one. Over the years I have sought help at many times with content creations and have always found the lack of help from others to being rather poor, with replies range from death threats due to the choice of content, to stuff like oh I can not tell you how to to do that as its commercial secret or such and such told me not to tell anybody else how it done. Plus the staggering amount of downright abusive emails as some one was not happy due to some part that I had got wrong.

First of all my pedigree.
I have been using Trainz and making content, and have been active on this forum for 13+ years since its release in November 2001. Claiming this as a degree of seniority I feel I can make what I consider are some valid comments.

The general tone of the forum has changed from being a friendly place with helpful people to somewhere where rudeness, bad manners and intolerance are common. It reminds me of a bunch of old women discussing the neigbours, each one trying to outdo the others with a bit of 'catty' juicy gossip.

This has become very evident with the advent of T:ANE, negative comments are made without consideration of whether they are accurate or necessary. So many posts about T:ANE ignore the fact that we are seeing development stages and not the finished product. Typical of this are posts like 'It looks like TS12 with shadows', thoughtless, because of course it does, every screenshot has to use existing content and nothing has yet been made expressly for T:ANE. So why post? No-one seems to consider that one of the strengths (and difficulties in coding the new engine) of T:ANE is that it can/will use existing content, think of the forum reaction if Tony had said 'Yes, you will get it by Christmas 2014, but it will need all new content'

Guys, please, lighten up. Consider what you are about to post, is it 'negative gossip' or is it something that is valid and important, that will contribute to the experience and pleasure of our fellow forum members. Especially, cut back on the negativity, it is not helpful, necessary or productive.

Disclaimer. I am not employed by N3V, my only connection with them has been my hobby, enabled by my enjoyment of their product for those 13 years.

Peter

 

[Roy3b3]

Well said Peter.
Every now and then, we all need to be reminded that we are all interested in the same hobby; and so, we should all maintain respect for one another. We all want the best product for our money, so If we have any criticism, then let it be constructive - not destructive. We should always apply common sense and support each other. Should anyone step out of line, then the moderators have control and can suspend the offenders.
Roy3b3

 

[peghorse]

Rocking rolling stock is awesome.
It just keeps getting better & better!

 

[KenGreen]

There has been a distinct change in attitude on the Forum since the introduction of TS12 SP1 and DRM. I use 49922 and rarely use SP1 as this has caused problems on two occasions. I do not want to use a simulator that causes more frustration than enjoyment.
I am hoping that the DRM situation will be more sensible with TANE - no validating when the servers are out of action.

Ken

 

[dragonharh]

Over the years I been on Trainz I use to get bullyed survey over my spelling and what not it got soo bad here I simply would fight fire with fire how ever now this gotten much worse all I get now days is complete ignored and forgotten. Wend did the fourms become a place were ones feels they must hide out of fear of getting attacked or fact I get misunderstood wend I'm trying to say one thing but it gets twisted around into something different. I'm not pointing fingers here but that's one of the main reasons I'm not the nice guy i use to be. I'm sure by now everyone noticed I haven't been relessing may models or been kind to anyone one now days. Its very simple really Do on to Others As you Wont Done On your Self! Simply Put I'm not purifect or ever will be and sometimes I'll mass up or not have all the answers but I do what I can and if that isn't enofe then your asking too much of me. I make things for your enjoy ment not becuse I like the drama I don't I hate it and I Agree with you guys here I'm sick and tired of it my self. Its not the mods failt things got this bad blaming them wend we got are selfs to blame my self in cluded. I agee the level of respicet on Trainz has gone down the toilet I even see it happing at work too its not just on the internet its all around us.
I really hate not being able to read and wight like all or you but thats what my dissabiltey it and I hate it with a passion I'm trying to get my massnge across the only way I know how. I'm not a mean guy at all I'm poorly missunderstood and that's how to days would is if you can to it like the rest your a out cast.
I rember wend the Fourms wore a friendly helpful place but now I can't even get help if needed. That makes me not wont to be here or bother with you guys A nother reason I given up on modeling and Trainz.
Hope this made any sents.
I think if we work with the mods we can help change things for the better.
Thats how I feel here thanks for listing or trying to understand anything I said it was mean to be a good thing.

 

[pcas1986]

Well said Peter.
Every now and then, we all need to be reminded that we are all interested in the same hobby; and so, we should all maintain respect for one another. We all want the best product for our money, so If we have any criticism, then let it be constructive - not destructive. We should always apply common sense and support each other. Should anyone step out of line, then the moderators have control and can suspend the offenders.
Roy3b3

Peter's post was well said and like others I agree with it. But I think Roy3b3's post was a timely reminder why we are here at all.

As for T:ANE I've downloaded and used/played with/tested every alpha and beta/CE/RC. Despite the bad vibes the product is getter better all the time. T;ANE will undoubtedly have bugs or missing features/etc on the final release day but that's the nature of software and customers with different expectations.

Has T:ANE lived up to my expectations? Not yet, but my goals, when asked for, were never going to be popular. I knew that from the start and accept it. But, when T:ANE does get released, all my content will be built for it and not for a product release 10 years old.