Question about route on the DLS and built into previous Edition of Trainz

One of my favorite routes included in Trainz 2010 was a small route named 'Detroit Connecting Railroad', made by chrisracer8903. I recently downloaded it and turned it into a model railroadz. I've finished it, but there are several problems that I have that I hope doesn't prevent me from uploading this version to the DLS, which are:
1. The config file has no contact E-Mail address, so I cannot contact chrisracer8903 to ask for his permission to release it on the DLS.
2. The config file has no license, so does this automatically mean that I cannot upload it to the DLS?
3. Does it matter that it was included in Trainz 2010, even though I downloaded from the DLS?
So, can I upload it to the DLS, or can I not upload it to the DLS?

He was last online: August 19th, 2015 11:00 PM

I will look at the route in TRS2006 to see what it is all about, whether it is a DEM

I would imagine what, and how much modification you have added onto the route, would be a deciding factor

Please hold off uploading it until a decision is possible

How long was the original route, and how long is it now ?

No license listed is NOT permission to release.

chrisracer has pretty much left the community, I doubt you're going to be able to get a hold of him.

peter

I realize rights need to be honored, but there maybe should be a process to declare something abandonware and therefore public domain within TRAINZ

The original is a 5 board wonder ... pretty good tracklaying skills ... perhaps if you re-built it absolutely from scratch, on your own 5 blank baseboards, (not his baseboards) ... then it would no longer be his creation ... how much more did you add onto the route ?

cascaderailroad said:

The original is a 5 board wonder ... pretty good tracklaying skills ... perhaps if you re-built it absolutely from scratch, on your own 5 blank baseboards, (not his baseboards) ... then it would no longer be his creation ... how much more did you add onto the route ?

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Nothing. I simply turned the route into an L-shaped layout, with the four-track mainline against the wall on one end, and deleted all the buildings on one side of the Detroit Connecting itself to turn it into a model railroadz. The route is basically a track laid in a straight line. I've replaced the crossings with TRC crossings, made some industries interactive, added portals to the mainline, replaced the switchstands, replaced the fencing and gate at the 'loco pen', and I'm now replacing the track with scottish's DMT Pro track procedural track. It has the closest ballast to the original track. I'm also trying to decide whether to replace some of the older buildings and vehicles with newer, better-quality buildings and vehicles and if I should replace the billboard trees with speedtrees.

I would enjoy seeing screenshots or video's of your route

cascaderailroad said:

I would enjoy seeing screenshots or video's of your route

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I'm not at the point where I'm ready to post screenshots of it. In fact I've quitted for the day 'cause It's time for me to hit the sack. Also, I went on a family vacation Universal Studios Florida in Orlando on Sunday (June 24th) and did not get back home at 1:21AM TODAY (June 29th). We left the hotel YESTERDAY at sometime around 11:30AM, but my mom had to stop off at every single freakin' Goodwill thrift store between Orlando and home, hence why we didn't get home until the wee hours of the morning.

I'm wondering IF there's a way I could release it by saying in the description:
In respect of the original creator, chrisracer8903, who has since left the community, there are to be NO other versions of this route to be made available to the Trainz Community. If you have downloaded this route, this route is NOT to be distributed to anyone AT ALL.

Anyway, back to the route:
So far I've replaced the individual trees with SpeedTrees, the roads with YARNish roads, the track with procedural track, and switchstands with those made by UP8328. I've replaced the individual cars with those made by Davesnow, Dinorius_redundicus, BTVFD, and several others. I've already run a test of the route and it works just fine. I'm currently working on replacing the buildings with higher quality ones, particularly replacing them with those made by Davesnow. I'm also working on the splines used for the foliage and replacing them with individual trees. I'm trying to get rid of all of those old billboard foliage. I want to give this route a new life by bringing it up to TANE standards.

You can jump high and low, but as long as you don’t have permission to release from the original creator, the answer is and will stay NO till 75 years after his/her death.

oknotsen said:

You can jump high and low, but as long as you don’t have permission to release from the original creator, the answer is and will stay NO till 75 years after his/her death.

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Let me put it this way: You know that route you love so much that you want to make a modified version of it and then upload it to the DLS? But something is stopping you from doing it, even though you want to do it soooo bad? That's what going on here. Otherwise, all this work was a waste of time.

Unfortunately if you haven't got permission there's a chance it would get taken down anyway if you uploaded it. You could always keep it for your own use though without uploading it.

Shane

And share the screenshots as well

The alternative is to recreate the route yourself with the same theme and name with redux added to the name. Something like the "Detroit Connecting Railroad Redux".

The route its self isn't very big as you know and is based on an actual prototype and track layout, which means you can easily recreate the route and then some.

In the end you'll probably find it's easier to rebuild the route from scratch than it is to renovate the old one because I have noticed, and I'm sure others have as well, that when an older route is imported into T:ANE, the performance isn't there due to many reasons, and there have been cases where the only way to get around the performance problem is to rebuild parts of the route from scratch that are the worst offenders.

This maybe due to the older textures not working well, or other things which we don't see visibly. If you have to rebuild whole sections, then you may as well redo the whole thing because it's difficult to match someone else's work anyway. You could probably do a whole lot better than the original ever was due to better materials, assets, and route-building techniques anyway. No offense to the original author, given how much better materials, assets, and everything else is today.

oknotsen said:

You can jump high and low, but as long as you don’t have permission to release from the original creator, the answer is and will stay NO till 75 years after his/her death.

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Inquiring minds want to know:

If the orignal creator is silent as to their intentions by omitting a license statement in the cdp, then from whence arises these apparent distribution limitations?

shaneturner12 said:

Unfortunately if you haven't got permission there's a chance it would get taken down anyway if you uploaded it. You could always keep it for your own use though without uploading it.

Shane

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Inasmuch as the DLS and the Forum are private entities, I fully acknowledge their right to remove anything they wish.

However, for the sake of discussion, I submit that if a route is inoperable in an older version of Trainz for structural defects, and is altered in any significant way to operate in a later version of Trainz, then it is a new (different) route.

(Naturally, common courtesy suggests that the original creator be mentioned)

pitkin said:

Inquiring minds want to know:

If the orignal creator is silent as to their intentions by omitting a license statement in the cdp, then from whence arises these apparent distribution limitations?

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Copyright law is the source of the limitations. And, no in most legal jurisdictions, you do not have to explicitly label or register an item to get copyright. It is automatic. So no notice is the same as a notice saying you cannot modify, redistribute etc.

whitburncolliery said:

Copyright law is the source of the limitations. And, no in most legal jurisdictions, you do not have to explicitly label or register an item to get copyright. It is automatic. So no notice is the same as a notice saying you cannot modify, redistribute etc.

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Yes, I agree.

Until 1989, a published work had to contain a valid copyright notice to receive protection under the copyright laws. But this requirement is no longer in force — works first published after March 1, 1989 need not include a copyright notice to gain protection under the law.

But even though a copyright notice is not required, it’s still important to include one. When a work contains a valid notice, an infringer cannot claim in court that he or she didn’t know it was copyrighted. This makes it much easier to win a copyright infringement case and perhaps collect enough damages to make the cost of the case worthwhile. And the very existence of a notice might discourage infringement.


So, if an author states the license for "free distribution" then I guess it is still implicitly copyrighted, but he has relinquished the rights for protection under the copyright?

From formal copywrite law, but I am not sure how valid it is if the author doesn't actually declare it copywrited….. Would be nice if someone who knows it would speak to it. If I paint a picture and post it on Facebook without declaring a copywrite, I would not be surprised to see it passed all around the internet....

Forester1 said:

From formal copywrite law, but I am not sure how valid it is if the author doesn't actually declare it copywrited….. Would be nice if someone who knows it would speak to it. If I paint a picture and post it on Facebook without declaring a copywrite, I would not be surprised to see it passed all around the internet....

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It's copyright. Anyway, the whole situation seems so ironic to me. There are probably scores of routes that have been developed privately that will never be enjoyed by the community. The content is mostly available free on the DLS and websites, but the route creators cannot distribute it en mass with a few clicks of the mouse.