TANE: Track direction, is it still important?

I was reading some of the tutorials from Chuck Brite (2008) regarding the importance of track direction and AI trains. As a result I started to check and re-lay track for my (over-inspired) Miami FEC route to ensure the double track routes were all pointing in the correct direction. I noticed a couple of things didn't correlate with the tutorial.

Specifically, the direction I laid the track (left-to-right or right-to-left) didn't always correspond to the direction of the track as indicated by placing a track marker. I could lay a section of track left-to-right but when I placed a track marker on it the marker would point in the opposite, right-to-left, direction. I even had a section of track where on one portion of contiguous track the marker pointed in R-L direction where another track marker placed less then 50' away was pointing L-R. No spline points were between them.

If this is still important in T:ANE, how does one lay track to ensure the directional value of the track or is this now a non-issue with AI trains?

Thanks in advance.

I always lay track in the intended direction of traffic flow ... But I "believe" the only thing a wrongly laid track direction matters, is that when you place a loco or consist, or drive the consist, you have to reverse things ... and too, a wrongly laid track direction will also make signals, frogs, and other trackside assets face backwards, requiring reversal

parsifal300 said:

If this is still important in T:ANE, how does one lay track to ensure the directional value of the track or is this now a non-issue with AI trains?

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Track direction is important for the original reasons - such as the default direction for direction markers - but the way it works has changed for newer multiple track.

The correct way to create multiple track is to use a dummy invisible spline and to attach each track to that spline. This means that each attached track has its direction specified by the config file entry for that track. The typical default would be to make one track the same direction as the spline, and the other track the other direction, but which track (left or right) should be the same direction, and whether they should be the same or opposite, is up to the content creator.

So it is quite possible that you laid some double track and the direction of one or both tacks was opposite to the direction of the spline, which might be what you observed. You need to identify whether the track you lay has been constructed to the new format, and if it has how the track direction has been set for each track in the spline. There should be a notation in the description or a code in the name (such as +- or ++) to indicate which tracks follow the spline direction and which tracks are opposite.

Then, a single track, where trains run one direction, and others run the opposite.. Is Trainz not able to cope with this mundane situation? Most of my Big route is single track, and I have had no problems for years.

llebrez said:

Then, a single track, where trains run one direction, and others run the opposite.. Is Trainz not able to cope with this mundane situation? Most of my Big route is single track, and I have had no problems for years.

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Track direction doe not control the direction in which trains can run on the track. That is done with a track direction marker.

It was a myth. It was never important.

philskene said:

It was a myth. It was never important.

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Track direction is quite important. It determines the default direction for many items placed in Surveyor, including signals, buffers, switches, track direction markers and, of course, traincars.

I have always wondered why things ended up on the wrong side...... Is there a way to easily change the track direction without relaying it? Should I be concerned about "wrong way" track?
Dick

In 06 VistaMare TrainzMap would swap out tracks, but would erase all trackmarkers and all trackside assets

Te easiest way to change out track, and track directions, is to place 2 intermediate spline points, and delete each spline point, starting with the first, and then the next spline point farther down the track, going in the intended direction of traffic flow, but it will delete all trackside assets on that track

There is no such thing as wrong way track, Where did that Rumor start.

It is not an Urban Legend, it real does slightly matter, somewhat, especially when you press "W", and your loco instead goes in reverse, your loco will be placed facing backwards, and all your trackside assets need reversal

Second time...

Why don't we have an option for just simple click on a piece of track to change the lay direction between two spline points?

Instead of clicking on all the other things that are on the wrong side of the track after placing them?

☼ ?¿? ☼

It apparently still does matter. When I change the direction on a loco, it will still sometimes change back to the opposite direction by itself when it crosses over a section of track laid in the opposite direction.

Richarde57 said:

Why don't we have an option for just simple click on a piece of track to change the lay direction between two spline points?

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Only the developers could know that, and if they do know they haven't told anyone.

track direction doesn't matter,never has...track direction makers were made for that job.
But AI still have there own mind now and again.

I have never paid attention to track direction and I have had no trouble.

I have seen this issue, and it drive me nuts. I pointed this out in TANE HERE https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?126925-Grade-XING-Help and found that some thing effect the track direction, like XING and double track bridges. It will effect the track for 3 segments before it goes back to normal. It will change which way the direction was just by connecting one of the double track assets to you existing track for the next 3 track segments, it's just kinda spooky, and irritating.

No one ever replied back or confirmed that there really is a problem. In my example above I thought it was only the procedural track, but it creeps back with older style track as well. It is a real pain to get it gone, but to do it requires you start the the offending asset, then figure out how to add on to it until you get the direction working correctly, then attach that mess to the rest of the route.

And yes, it does mess up your route if you are using AI...

BRClass66 said:

track direction doesn't matter,never has...track direction makers were made for that job.

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Track direction does matter. It determines the default direction for many items placed in Surveyor, including signals, buffers, switches, track direction markers and, of course, traincars.

How the track direction markers affect AI is a different issue.

Track direction markers really do not change the direction of the track laid ... If you have a track laid the wrong direction, the track direction marker will also be backwards, requiring it to be reversed ... if you have a track laid in the wrong direction, and you reverse the track direction marker, a loco will still be placed backwards in surveyor. If a train comes upon a pointy end of a track direction marker, it tries to take an alternate path.

In the US a right and running rule is the norm, so you may as well lay track in the right hand running direction on a US double track mainline ... unless you just don't care to do so, then just don't do it

Thanks for everyone's response. The answer to the question is yes, it's still important. I've noticed strange behavior on some lines where AI trains are taking strange routes off the main line and its usually been because the track direction on the other side of the switch is not in the direction the AI wanted to go in. So I'd like to get this as close to right as possible.

SailorDan said:

...

The correct way to create multiple track is to use a dummy invisible spline and to attach each track to that spline.

...

So it is quite possible that you laid some double track and the direction of one or both tacks was opposite to the direction of the spline, which might be what you observed. You need to identify whether the track you lay has been constructed to the new format. [editorial snip] There should be a notation in the description or a code in the name (such as +- or ++) to indicate which tracks follow the spline direction and which tracks are opposite.

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SailorDan, this is, I think, the answer I was looking for but unfortunately it causes more questions. For additional clarity to my original question I am laying double track but as two single tracks laying parallel to each other. The track is TANE Trk Concrete <kuid2:523:19723203:2>. From your answer above:
1) When I get to laying dbl track I assume I should be able to identify its behavior by finding something in its name or config.txt file that states ++ or +-. You mention the way it works had changed for newer multiple track. Can the newer track be determined by Trainz version #?
2) If a section of single track is pointing in the wrong direction then do all sections that are pointing in the wrong direction need to be deleted before correction will hold? I've attempted to delete a section between two spline points and then re-layed the track in the correct direction just to have the track marker indicate it is still pointing in the wrong direction. Should I assume this is because of what you mentioned about spline points also influencing track direction regardless of the way the track was put down.
3) You mention the correct way to lay multiple track is to use a dummy invisible spline and attach each track to that spline. Then the config file would determine the direction. Does this only affect dbl track or single as well? (If single I could not find any track config file that had this information.) Could you please elaborate on this technique or point me in the direction of some instruction?

Maybe I'll have some layout to show by 2025