Who is doing the updating ?~!

[philskene]

I've noticed that several items of rolling stock by Jim "Sniper" Ward (sniper297) have just appeared on the Download Station, date stamped 18 August 2014. They appear to be updated versions of his earlier work.

However, I know that Jim has not been active in Trainz for quite some time.

Hmm - I've also found that updated version of two of my routes, HarborMaster and IndustRail, have also been uploaded this month. I can say that I had absolutely no involvement or knowledge of this.

Do we know who is doing this? And why? Has it happened to others? And should they (whoever "they" my be) at least try to contact the original authors first?

I find this very disconcerting.

Phil

 

[rickf77]

I can't say I blame you for feeling that way Phil. It would be nice and also the right thing to do! How hard can it be to ask first?

I noticed Jim's stuff this AM. I thought, "Oh, good, he's back." I miss his no nonsense style on the forums! He had no problem speaking his mind!

Cheers .... Rick

 

[SharkNose]

Probably from the DLS Cleanup project. I see 12 on there from you, if you are user number 69871. I don't see any of sniper's. You should have been contacted by N3V before they appeared there.

DLS Cleanup List: https://www.auran.com/planetauran/dls_cleanup_list.php

 

[clam1952]

I've noticed that several items of rolling stock by Jim "Sniper" Ward (sniper297) have just appeared on the Download Station, date stamped 18 August 2014. They appear to be updated versions of his earlier work.

However, I know that Jim has not been active in Trainz for quite some time.

Hmm - I've also found that updated version of two of my routes, HarborMaster and IndustRail, have also been uploaded this month. I can say that I had absolutely no involvement or knowledge of this.

Do we know who is doing this? And why? Has it happened to others? And should they (whoever "they" my be) at least try to contact the original authors first?

I find this very disconcerting.

Phil

What should happen is that N3V sends a request to the Creator giving a time scale to fix it in before it goes on the list, Email may have ended up either in Spam folder or maybe blocked / deleted by over enthusiastic Email provider. The email for the one Item I had to fix was in the Spam folder, as were at one point most of my upload confirmation emails, if I hadn't checked it would have been deleted and I'd have been none the wiser. I've had to set Gmail to "Never send to spam" any N3V notifications, that seems to have worked, nothing else did.

If nothing else Phil I suggest you claim your 12 items to stop any further amateur repairs until you decide what to do!

 

[philskene]

Thanks for the information guys - really appreciated. I can't remember any emails.

Malc - excellent advice too.

 

[pcas1986]

I've never looked at this list before but am sure I can fix a few - hopefully not "amateurish". Maybe when I get bored doing other stuff.

Are there any "established ethics" in the community for claiming these assets? As a start I'd probably check the author and, if I know them to be active on the forums, I'd probably try and contact them first. I'd probably not bother with repaints.
Presumably one is expected to update to at least TS12.

 

[cascaderailroad]

I have a question:

I have backdated thousands of 12, 10, 09 assets trainzbuilds to work in TRS2006 ... Will all of my work be automatically updated back to TS12 trainzbuilds when my CM rebuilds it's database

 

[SailorDan]

I've never looked at this list before but am sure I can fix a few - hopefully not "amateurish". Maybe when I get bored doing other stuff.

Fixing routes can't be done like other assets. One procedure is:
From CM, open the route in Explorer and fix the config.txt for the listed error (probably deleting the info line)
Start TS2009, load the route
Edit the route. The most common change is to set the region to the region listed in config.txt
Save the route. This saves the route under your user ID, but it also deletes the original
Create an image to use as the thumbnail
From CM, open the route in Explorer and edit config.txt back to 2.9, add the thumbnail and edit the KUID back to the original user ID, with the kuid incremented by one
In CM, select Import content, navigate to where the asset folder is and import it
In CM, delete the version that was created with your user id

The new route can now be tested to 09, 10 and 12, then uploaded.

Are there any "established ethics" in the community for claiming these assets? As a start I'd probably check the author

Not necessary. The original creator was advised well before the item went up on the list, and it has been sitting there for them to check their assets for many weeks. If they dind't respond to the original advice, or check what items of theirs were on the list, then you can assume they want someone else to fix it for them.

 

[philskene]

Please 'fess up

Well, I've just got round to downloading the revised "IndustRail 3a".

I think by now that most will have come across my views on assets in routes that are not built-in or from the Download Station. In summary:

• I hate the search to the far corners of the Universe for missing dependencies.
• I certainly don't expect anyone who downloads any of my routes to go on a similar search.

So I take great care to check that only built-in and DLS assets are used in routes and, in the description that appears under the thumbnail, add words to the effect "All the dependencies used by the route are on the Download Station."

Well - the revised "IndustRail 3a" has two missing dependencies. I have no idea what they are, what they replace, why they have been used, and where they come from.

Or who did the revision.

Would the culprit like to 'fess up, please.

And, of course, "IndustRail 3a" was long ago superseded by "IndustRail 4a", then by "IndustRail TS2010". And I've been sitting on a TS12 version for a little time waiting to see how T:ANE progresses. So why bother with 3a?

 

[clam1952]

Not necessary. The original creator was advised well before the item went up on the list, and it has been sitting there for them to check their assets for many weeks. If they dind't respond to the original advice, or check what items of theirs were on the list, then you can assume they want someone else to fix it for them.

In a perfect World, however don't forget that there are several people who's assets have been fixed who never received any notification, maybe it got deleted by an Email Spambot and never even made it to the spam folder.
If it's someone who is still actively creating I'd be inclined to check that they are aware they have stuff on the list.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning Phil
Unfortunately, sometimes the emails do go missing after our system sends them. Once the email goes out, the system gives 8 weeks for the asset to be repaired by the original author. If it is not, then it is added to the public listing to be repaired.

If the asset has been repaired incorrectly, then there is no issue with you (the original creator) uploading an update to resolve this. You should be uploading it as a new revision (increase the revision number at the end of the kuid number; do not change the userID or assetID numbers of the kuid), not as a separate asset.

Regards

 

[nawlins]

Phil, for the heck of it I downloaded the "new" Industrail 3a and I can tell you that the two "missing" assets are products, Zinc sulfate,<kuid2:30671:9283326:1> & Potassium hydroxide,<kuid2:30671:9281520:1> by Lars Ljungberg (llj).

Actually they are on the DLS but are Trainz v2.0 so CM doesn't see them. They can be manually downloaded without problems.

Cheers

 

[Ricke82]

I still use TS2010 for a number of routes including HarborMaster 2A. When I saw the update I downloaded it. There are 93 unknown dependencies for the update. A number of these are -25 kuids and I assume the others are TS12 as well. This is in spite of the fact that the build version of the update is listed as 2.9 and the original description of the route (…”It is for Trainz 2004, 2006, 2009 and 2010.”...) is unchanged. There already is an updated version of HarborMaster for TS12, so why did someone feel it was necessary update 2A and why did they choose a build of 2.9 when they used assets that are only available in TS12? If they thought they were doing the Trainz community a service by updating an “outdated” asset I’m afraid they are sadly mistaken.

 

[clam1952]

Probably done with good intentions but not aware that due to the -25 kuid's obsoleting the originals, fixing it in TS12 SP1 would render it broken in lower versions of Trainz.

 

[cascaderailroad]

If they thought they were doing the Trainz community a service by updating an “outdated” asset I’m afraid they are sadly mistaken.

Probably done with good intentions but not aware that due to the -25 kuid's obsoleting the originals, fixing it in TS12 SP1 would render it broken in lower versions of Trainz.

I have with great difficulty, been able to backdate 90% TS12 assets into TRS2006 ... Soon after T:ANE is released, this cumbersome task will be probably also be required by 09 and 10 users.

I wish that udating people would fix the assets in TRS2006 trainzbuild so that they work in TS12, but have a TRS2006 trainzbuild in the fixed config files showing 2.5 or 2.6 ... It is not necessary to update a config file so that it shows a TS12 trainzbuild of 3.0, 3.2, 3.7 ... etc ...

They can be fixed in TRS2006 config file format, so that they work in TS12 and T:ANE.

But this will never happen ... As T:ANE users will quickly jump on the updating bandwagon, updating assets in T:ANE, and make the assets broken in TS12 also.

 

[philskene]

Hi Zec --

Thanks for getting back to me here. Did you also get my Helpdesk ticket?

"If the asset has been repaired incorrectly, then there is no issue with you (the original creator) uploading an update to resolve this. You should be uploading it as a new revision ... ."

What if it does not need or should not be updated in the first place?

What I have done with most of my routes is progressively update them to make them compatible with new releases of Trainz, but also leave older versions of the route for those (Luddites - not in any way meant as a derogatory term because I do appreciate why some people do not update) who are using earlier versions of the simulation.

For example, PortOgden&Northern 1a = TRS2004; 2a = TRS2006 through TRS2010; TS12 = TS12. All with different kuids.

It's pointless bringing PO&N 1a up to TS12 standards because there is a vastly better TS12 version already on the DLS.

Likewise with DowntownTration. 1a/b = TRS2004; 2a = 06 to 10; TS12 = 12

Is there a work round for this?

By the way, I have been to the link given in Post #3 above and "captured" my remaining routes but I suspect that some are already out in the wild. The ones I've captured I intend just sitting on them indefinitely. Will this cause any problems to you guys?

I hope we can work this out. I suspect I might not be alone here.

Regards,
Phil

_____

Edit:

And as Rick points out in Post #13 (previous page), updating a TS10 route to TS12 makes it unusable in TS10, even though the text under the thumbnail says it is for TS10.

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

Actually they are on the DLS but are Trainz v2.0 so CM doesn't see them.

Cheers

This is a disturbing revelation to me. I wasn't aware that CM is blind to old trainz-build assets. Is it really true? What's the point if it can't see both past and present assets on the DLS?

Phil, it's probably not the case with your route asset, but I've had experiences in which N3V themselves changed assets of mine and uploaded the revisions to the DLS without asking or giving notification. It's rare but indicates it's not always a result of the DLS Clean Up process.

~ Deane

 

[Fabartus]

I've never looked at this list before but am sure I can fix a few - hopefully not "amateurish". Maybe when I get bored doing other stuff.

Are there any "established ethics" in the community for claiming these assets? As a start I'd probably check the author and, if I know them to be active on the forums, I'd probably try and contact them first. I'd probably not bother with repaints.
Presumably one is expected to update to at least TS12.

I had too, but found the Secure server quite off putting.

I have a question:

I have backdated thousands of 12, 10, 09 assets trainzbuilds to work in TRS2006 ... Will all of my work be automatically updated back to TS12 trainzbuilds when my CM rebuilds it's database

Local files are local files. CM shouldn't be updating anything automatically. If it worries you, boot CM, then unplug or disable the internet. John Citron and I had some experience with that last summer when we were trying to show off Trainz on his laptop at a campground with slow internet. There are a number of times it pays to hide the DLS from TrainzUtil, and I wish the default was to local content. // F

Well, I've just got round to downloading the revised "IndustRail 3a".

I think by now that most will have come across my views on assets in routes that are not built-in or from the Download Station. In summary:

• I hate the search to the far corners of the Universe for missing dependencies.
• I certainly don't expect anyone who downloads any of my routes to go on a similar search.

So I take great care to check that only built-in and DLS assets are used in routes and, in the description that appears under the thumbnail, add words to the effect "All the dependencies used by the route are on the Download Station."

I thouroughly enjoyed your Ogden and Point Northern--great quality and care was certainly on display--and really admired the tech manual you put with it. May I suggest that and future endeavors would be better placed in the Wikibook I've been meaning to write a post on that, but there are a few things in front of that initiative in my priority que up on that TODO list. Soon.

Well - the revised "IndustRail 3a" has two missing dependencies. SNIP... And I've been sitting on a TS12 version for a little time waiting to see how T:ANE progresses. So why bother with 3a?

Besides it has your name on it? DLS clean up is an attempt to make things better for all. Think like an eight year old... then anticipate his difficulties should he happen on that! // F

Phil, for the heck of it I downloaded the "new" Industrail 3a and I can tell you that the two "missing" assets are products, Zinc sulfate,<kuid2:30671:9283326:1> & Potassium hydroxide,<kuid2:30671:9281520:1> by Lars Ljungberg (llj). Actually they are on the DLS but are Trainz v2.0 so CM doesn't see them. They can be manually downloaded without problems. Cheers

Nat, that makes no sense to me. I see plenty of low trainz-build assets. I think George Fisher used every other one in his routes, and I downloaded his whole clutch in one moment of grab them all madness when I was trying to get to bed. Was still downloading all the dependencies the next morning--and I'm still fixing some of that content! It went over 8 Gb IIRC!

I know they've been mucking around with the permissions or something. Some things I wanted wouldn't come down, and others, replacements did. TRS2006 has lately been having troubles, but when 6&12 have troubles, either 9 or 10 seem to find the same list doable. I've not had the time to get that straight yet, but if it's blocked, there must be a replacement. // F

This is a disturbing revelation to me. I wasn't aware that CM is blind to old trainz-build assets. Is it really true? What's the point if it can't see both past and present assets on the DLS?

Phil, it's probably not the case with your route asset, but I've had experiences in which N3V themselves changed assets of mine and uploaded the revisions to the DLS without asking or giving notification. It's rare but indicates it's not always a result of the DLS Clean Up process.
~ Deane

I think you see them fine in the main display, but they do seem to have installed some software that now substitutes an updated version. I'm pretty sure I ended up with some TS12 assets in both 9 and 10 that way, and even TRS2006. Zec said tonight on another forum that there are going to be quite a few changes in the DLS service, especially for TRS2006--so presumably also the TC's.

The same two posts (see page 4 here) mention N3V vetting content for TANE, and doing in house mods when needed--probably goes in lockstep with the adds they made to the N3V Wiki where certain tags are now mandatory and so forth from 3.4 up. They're almost totally focused on TANE... so it all holds together. Le Roi est morte, viva le Roi! // Frank

 

[Azervich]

Fixing routes can't be done like other assets. One procedure is:
From CM, open the route in Explorer and fix the config.txt for the listed error (probably deleting the info line)
Start TS2009, load the route
Edit the route. The most common change is to set the region to the region listed in config.txt
Save the route. This saves the route under your user ID, but it also deletes the original
Create an image to use as the thumbnail
From CM, open the route in Explorer and edit config.txt back to 2.9, add the thumbnail and edit the KUID back to the original user ID, with the kuid incremented by one
In CM, select Import content, navigate to where the asset folder is and import it
In CM, delete the version that was created with your user id

The new route can now be tested to 09, 10 and 12, then uploaded.

That is rather bad advice due to the fact if someone was up save a route in say.. TS12 SP1 and then back date to TS09 that route becomes broken in all versions below TS12 SP1 as each build changes the ground tiles, you can't just back date a route that was saved in later version, it must be done in the lowest version, in this case the person updating the route using your advice would have to have a pre-SP1 TS09 install for your method to work, or other wise the route becames defective.

Cheers.

 

[pcas1986]

I wasn't thinking of fixing routes as I don't consider myself a route maker. The one route I uploaded some time ago caused so much grief that I decided to devote my meagre talents elsewhere. That particular problem was caused by me inadvertently using S&C assets. I know better now.

Some of the "broken" assets have some rather odd errors that suggests the DLS syntax checking of the time must have been very simple.

From all I have read, including that "other" thread, I can only practically fix and upload assets for TB 3.5. So that will make the original assets unavailable for anyone using lower versions. Even via the black pages - which aren't black anymore! I guess if I were quick I could get in a few with lower TBs before N3V drops the bar. This isn't very encouraging for someone trying to help the community.

Cheers