What's Happening to the Content Creators?

[johnwhelan]

If I do that, it will be just like every other layout. Then what is the point of making it?

You have a project with certain resources available. If you can't persuade other content creators to spend many many hours creating exactly what you'd like and you are a perfectionist then you have two choices available to you. The first is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Trainz/Software_Used_for_Content_Creation and do it yourself. I'm certain that many other layout creators would be very grateful to you and the second is bribery. There are talented people who will build exactly what you'd like for an hourly rate, it probably depends more on how much money you have available than anything else.

Cheerio John

 

[LWVRR]

You have a project with certain resources available. If you can't persuade other content creators to spend many many hours creating exactly what you'd like and you are a perfectionist then you have two choices available to you. The first is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Trainz/Software_Used_for_Content_Creation and do it yourself. I'm certain that many other layout creators would be very grateful to you and the second in bribery. There are talented people who will build exactly what you'd like for an hourly rate, it probably depends more on how much money you have available than anything else.

Cheerio John

1. Yes, I am a perfectionist. For that fact alone, the layout will be unique.

2. I started by making my own content, spent many, many hours in Blender. The problem is that because of my work schedule I have no time for creating anymore. What little time I have is spent working on the layout. I have one person, Jananton who does great work. I don't want to burden him by making buildings along with the trolleys and freight motors he his working so hard on, so I need to recruit other content creators.

All of this doesn't excuse the fact of other people saying that they will help and I never hear from them again..or folks who have a hard time just replying to a email...or folks that instantly change there mind and decide not to help without ever hearing any details.

 

[mezzoprezzo]

~snip~ Perhaps scale the project back to reuse more existing assets from the DLS or TPR? ~snip~

If I do that, it will be just like every other layout. Then what is the point of making it?

My emphasis in red

I don’t agree.

IMHO artistry and imagination are more important ingredients than new assets.

There are many Routes which display familiar creations. However, their deployment, combined with the myriad choice of textures, methods of placement and creative tricks can make each layout very unique. 'Best match' assets can be found as a substitute if you search hard enough and can look mighty convincing if placed well.

New assets don’t make a perfect route.

 

[Dermmy]

I don’t agree.

IMHO artistry and imagination are more important ingredients than new assets.

There are many Routes which display familiar creations. However, their deployment, combined with the myriad choice of textures, methods of placement and creative tricks can make each layout very unique. 'Best match' assets can be found as a substitute if you search hard enough and can look mighty convincing if placed well.

New assets don’t make a perfect route.

Casper that is almost word for word what I was going to post!

LWVRR you are missing the whole point of Trainz. Route building is an artistic endeavour, not an engineering project. You start with a blank canvas and you work with the tools and assets that you have to produce the best route you can. Whether or not Building 4251 on the route is an exact replica of the 'original' or just a close approximation or - dare I say - nothing like it at all, it matters not one whit!

In any form of art be it painting, photography, route building, slavishly copying the original does NOT automatically produce a 'good' outcome. Good art is much about what the artist leaves out as what the artist puts in! And it's not about the ingredients he/she started with. If it was just about placing the 'proper' asset in the 'proper' place then anyone could produce a good route, a good painting or a good photograph. That is patently not the case!

If I may be permitted one other small criticism: "The problem is that because of my work schedule I have no time for creating anymore" is almost exactly the attitude you damned third party creators for having just one page back...

Andy

 

[LWVRR]

If I may be permitted one other small criticism: "The problem is that because of my work schedule I have no time for creating anymore" is almost exactly the attitude you damned third party creators for having just one page back...

No not really, my objection and comment was that this person (a veteran creator) said that they would help with the LL project and then turned around and said that the didn't have time for it. There's a big difference there.

 

[slabay]

I work, go to school, and have a family life to participate in. I still make the stuff I make. I don't do what I do to anyone's expectations but my own. When I do things by request, they get them when I get around to them. I don't abandon doing what I enjoy doing just because I can't stick to some arbitrary deadline. If I never finish my route I am working on, so be it.

So, why abandon what you enjoy doing because it won't be done tomorrow? If your schedule means it will take longer, it will just take longer.

 

[LWVRR]

So, why abandon what you enjoy doing because it won't be done tomorrow? If your schedule means it will take longer, it will just take longer.

It's been a work in progress for the last 5 years. It is about 3/4 done. I'm in the home stretch and I need help or it may be another 5 years. I really don't want to what that long. I'm really frustrated by the games people are playing, it really is no fun anymore. I was hoping to get a few people together that have a similar interests and make one heck of a layout...it sure ain't turning out that way.

 

[johnwhelan]

It's been a work in progress for the last 5 years. It is about 3/4 done. I'm in the home stretch and I need help or it may be another 5 years. I really don't want to what that long. I'm really frustrated by the games people are playing, it's really is no fun anymore. I was hoping to get a few people together that have a similar interests and make one heck of a layout...it sure ain't turning out that way.

That's life I'm afraid and does it really matter if it takes another five years? You could always upload it as it stands and let people finish it off.

Cheerio John

 

[Dermmy]

~~I was hoping to get a few people together that have a similar interests and make one heck of a layout...it sure ain't turning out that way.

It probably never will - sorry! It won't because the absolute passion, drive and dedication required to complete a Trainz route of any meaningful size is rare. Very rare. If you have that drive and passion it is a wonderful thing! The odds though are stacked against ever finding anyone else with that same passion for that same project, let alone forming a group! The fact is that any others with the 'passion' are in all probability totally committed to their own pet project.

If I could give you one piece of advice it would be 'hang in'. Build the best route you can using the 'best' content you can find. If someone can knock out that special piece for you so much the better, but if they can't then the route will not be one bit less well received for its absence...

 

[falcon500]

Just to say that there's nothing wrong with asking for help, if content creators choose to respond surely that's up to them. I've seen quite a few posts from blokes saying how they are making some route and then asking for people to make buildings and whatever else. Don't know how much response they get. I would reckon most creators have their own projects that keep them fairly busy without taking on someone's requests. I've been working on a 100km route based on my old home town set in the 1960's. This has required a lot of research. I started off using built in trees and NZ pioneer houses. After awhile I thought that these weren't all that satisfactory so I started first making my own Australian trees and later buildings.
Ben Dorsey kindly made a large bridge and a complicated station building for me and willem2 made a pub without me requesting it. However the majority of the houses, ground textures, trees and some rail bridges are my work for this route. Of course this has slowed progress on the route, but more satisfying to have trees and buildings that actually look like those from the local area and period than generic stuff that appears on every 2nd route.

 

[LWVRR]

However the majority of the houses, ground textures, trees and some rail bridges are my work for this route. Of course this has slowed progress on the route, but more satisfying to have trees and buildings that actually look like those from the local area and period than generic stuff that appears on every 2nd route.

Yes, that is my thinking too. For me it's the buildings. There are some buildings that stand out and are close to the tracks...I call them "landmark buildings". Unfortunately, some of those buildings are difficult models to make. The idea for this layout was to get the feeling you are traveling back in time to the 1950's, there is limited amount of default items for this task. The track is another sticking point. There is no 3rd rail track out there like the Laurel Line's 3rd rail track. In my eyes it simply needs to be made for the layout to be complete.

 

[slabay]

Yes, that is my thinking too. For me it's the buildings. There are some buildings that stand out and are close to the tracks...I call them "landmark buildings". Unfortunately, some of those buildings are difficult models to make. The idea for this layout was to get the feeling you are traveling back in time to the 1950's, there is limited amount of default items for this task. The track is another sticking point. There is no 3rd rail track out there like the Laurel Line's 3rd rail track. In my eyes it simply needs to be made for the layout to be complete.

My route that I am working on is every bit of 60 miles long, and what really complicates it is that it involves the old P&LE line (now CSX) on one side of the river and the PennsyCentral (NS) line on the other side, which effectively doubles a good portion of the trackage. I can safely say that it will likely never be finished (especially since I don't believe I have placed as much as a single tree in two months) because I've been working on reskins so much lately. It doesn't discourage me, though, because I am making the route for me to enjoy. If I ever finish it and get to release it for others to enjoy, well that would be nice too. Just remember that this is something for you and it is for you to enjoy. Don't worry about finishing it for everyone else. If it takes you twenty years, we'll be here to enjoy it (or at least someone will).

I agree that there are certain specific buildings that you will need to have. Focus on those. I really wanted a pair of bridges, Ben made incredible ones for me, and the rest I can work around. When I deed something else specific, I will ask for it, but for the most part, I can get by. If I need a Sheetz station I can make one (but fortunately, Ed saved me the trouble). If it isn't available, a BP will do just as well. A gas station is a gas station. You are doing a great job. Keep your chin up.

 

[Euphod]

I try to produce buildings and billboards that help to ground users in the time period and location of the route of their choice. If anyone has a request, and especially if they have a link to a picture that would represent the type of content they are after for a certain route or location, I would be happy to help. I have a thread in the Freeware Announcements forum, and you may certainly post requests there, and links if you have them. I am only a lowly reskinner, so can only accomplish so much, but will be glad to provide whatever I can to "ground" a route in a specific time period or location.

As far as era specific items go I understand that assets from European sites often provide buildings that appear to be "Steam Age" USA appropriate.

 

[johnwhelan]

Just to say that there's nothing wrong with asking for help, if content creators choose to respond surely that's up to them. I've seen quite a few posts from blokes saying how they are making some route and then asking for people to make buildings and whatever else. Don't know how much response they get. I would reckon most creators have their own projects that keep them fairly busy without taking on someone's requests. I've been working on a 100km route based on my old home town set in the 1960's. This has required a lot of research. I started off using built in trees and NZ pioneer houses. After awhile I thought that these weren't all that satisfactory so I started first making my own Australian trees and later buildings.
Ben Dorsey kindly made a large bridge and a complicated station building for me and willem2 made a pub without me requesting it. However the majority of the houses, ground textures, trees and some rail bridges are my work for this route. Of course this has slowed progress on the route, but more satisfying to have trees and buildings that actually look like those from the local area and period than generic stuff that appears on every 2nd route.

You might like to have a look at KUID: 86627:100035 and the associated houses, search for "aus house" on the DLS. They were designed as low impact one day when I was playing around.

Cheerio John

 

[LWVRR]

At this point I can report that I'm back to work on the project. When will it be finished? Who knows. All I can say is if anybody is interested in helping out you can contact me. There is plenty of work that still needs to be done.

 

[martinvk]

Just to reiterate that any route creation should first and last be for your enjoyment. I can't remember how many routes I've started that got sidetracked by a special model creation project to made that oh so right looking object. Did I lament the extra time spent, no. Creation, any creation is joy in and of itself. So my routes get delayed. If you're watching the clock during your route creation, I think you have to step back a bit to be clear on the concept that hobbies should be for fun. Speaking for myself, if or when fun wanes, I will be doing something else.

 

[LWVRR]

I found that once I'm busy and going head first into surveyor, I kind of forget about all the other things that erk me. Sometimes you loose track of these fun things.

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

..I would reckon most creators have their own projects that keep them fairly busy without taking on someone's requests....

This quote sums it up for me. My current request efforts are directed to making assets for dricketts Frisco High Line, so there is little time for much else.

As to why some don't even reply yes or no to a request, I wonder if it's a bit like when you see unsolicited religious or political door-knockers coming down your street. You don't need to talk to them to know you're not interested, so you pretend you're not there rather than get snagged in an awkward conversation. Rude but possibly understandable.

 

[seanoc17]

Perhaps content creators could come together to put together a series of small tutorials, not exactly in depth ones like Paul Hobbs' but instead handy hints that may not be covered in detail by the introductory tutorials. For the 3DS Max/Gmax users, things like "creating complicated shapes with the line tool" or "using the boolean tool" or indeed "using the lathe tool to make a chimney". If we could standardise them as a format and see about getting them published somewhere, it might encourage a new generation of people to "have a go" as it were.

Especially as seeing as the majority of tutorials I have come across when trying to reference for others appear to be somewhat out of date, unless they are for blender.

 

[johnwhelan]

Perhaps content creators could come together to put together a series of small tutorials, not exactly in depth ones like Paul Hobbs' but instead handy hints that may not be covered in detail by the introductory tutorials. For the 3DS Max/Gmax users, things like "creating complicated shapes with the line tool" or "using the boolean tool" or indeed "using the lathe tool to make a chimney". If we could standardise them as a format and see about getting them published somewhere, it might encourage a new generation of people to "have a go" as it were.

Especially as seeing as the majority of tutorials I have come across when trying to reference for others appear to be somewhat out of date, unless they are for blender.

Creating a tutorial takes time, enhancing it to reflect feed back takes even more time. Most of the Blender ones are for 2.49b and since Blender is up to 2.6 or so these days they can be considered out of date as well. Mind you there are still a few like me who stay with 2.49b.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Trainz is a reasonable place to put them and although adding images is a pain in the neck it can be done. More to the point the tutorials can be updated by any one.

Cheerio John