What's going on here then? - BR 9F Evening Star & Black Prince

[itstypicalrailfanner]

You know, that's a pretty funny way of saying "I support business practices that divide and alienate players." Pulling the "get a job" card only works in certain situations and this isn't one of them. Most folks have a job, and there are far too many sensible gamers out there who like owning what they buy, and don't take kindly to dlc being locked behind a subscription. A business practice like this, no matter how small the developer team, is what divides, alienates and destroys player bases. If N3V Games continue with favoritism, then they'll end up losing most of the Trainz community.

 

[WestSideRailways]

I was always happy to pay for Trainz content, I'm not happy to pay for the same content each and every month.

Same thing Apply here, If you like it enough...... that pay for it ONCE and it will always be yours.
IF you do not want to buy it outright, then the only option is to subscribe....

YOU CAN NOT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT.....

I am so sick of the latest version of people in the (I want it, so everybody has it give it to me)

I don't care if I ruffle feathers.... to those people I say.... HERE is a straw SUCK IT UP .

This forum is starting to de- generate again..... time for another leave of absence, I think

it does not worry me, if I am not on here all the time. I un-installed discord because it was full of bull shit. with users who do not know how to have a decent chat.

 

[valbridge]

they don't want to sell you their software, they want you to rent if from them for a subscription

Ahhhhh... 'you'll own nothing and be happy'. Hmmm where on earth have I heard that before?

 

[amigacooke]

YOU CAN NOT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT.....

Some cakes I can’t have at all without a subscription.

Still, it’s a luxury, so I’ll go for the no subscription diet (much healthier).

 

[itstypicalrailfanner]

Same thing Apply here, If you like it enough...... that pay for it ONCE and it will always be yours.
IF you do not want to buy it outright, then the only option is to subscribe....

YOU CAN NOT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT.....

I am so sick of the latest version of people in the (I want it, so everybody has it give it to me)

I don't care if I ruffle feathers.... to those people I say.... HERE is a straw SUCK IT UP .

This forum is starting to de- generate again..... time for another leave of absence, I think

it does not worry me, if I am not on here all the time. I un-installed discord because it was full of bull shit. with users who do not know how to have a decent chat.

The "you'll own nothing and be happy" is strong with this one.

 

[pware]

An old post that I just noticed.

Increasingly, software vendors are not behaving like retailers but rentiers, ie. they don't want to sell you their software, they want you to rent if from them for a subscription.

Some false assumption in that statement.

If you read the license agreement that you normally have to tick before installing just about any software product these days (and who ever actually reads that long legalistic document anyway?) then you would most likely have noticed that you have not purchased the software at all. Instead you have purchased a licence to use it, possibly with restrictions on where and how you can use it. It will also be stated that the developer retains ownership of the software and may, at anytime for any reason, terminate your licence and you will be required to uninstall the software. But you can probably keep any documents that you created with the software as they are your creations, not the developers - ignoring the possibility that you may not be able to access those documents without the software. So, technically, we are all tenants, not owners, of the software we use and can be evicted at any time.

As soon as N3V announced that a subscription version will be available for those who were interested, posts started appearing that they (N3V) will, eventually, force everyone onto the subscription. Those claims were made about 5 years ago. Since then we have seen TRS22 and TRS22PE released as retail versions (pay once, use at the developers discretion forever).

Earlier today I had my last remaining wisdom tooth removed so I am dispensing what is left of my wisdom.

 

[valbridge]

Earlier today I had my last remaining wisdom tooth removed so I am dispensing what is left of my wisdom.

There lieth deep in the gums where a once vital piece of enamel and calcium lived does not forget whence removed. Its wisdom remains to be woken whenever required.

 

[amigacooke]

As soon as N3V announced that a subscription version will be available for those who were interested, posts started appearing that they (N3V) will, eventually, force everyone onto the subscription. Those claims were made about 5 years ago. Since then we have seen TRS22 and TRS22PE released as retail versions (pay once, use at the developers discretion forever)..

Since the subscription ‘option’ has been introduced parity between the two versions has been eroded. TRS22 at launch was not feature equivalent to the Trainz Plus at that time. The retail version is now feature inferior at all times.

N3V has preserved the illusion of choice, not the reality.

 

[pware]

TRS22 at launch was not feature equivalent to the Trainz Plus at that time.

Of course not. Hence the "Plus" in Trainz Plus.

TRS22PE was also released at about the same time and, apart from HD Terrain and (possibly) a few other things, it was a feature equivalent - it had the major new feature Surveyor 2.0.

I am not sure what you expected. The "deluxe versions" of any product will have more to offer than the "standard" version.

 

[pware]

N3V has preserved the illusion of choice, not the reality.

You have a real choice, not an illusion.

• TRS22 - the standard version.
• TRS22PE - the deluxe version with Surveyor 2.0, the ability to load (but not edit) HD routes, limited access to Multiplayer Surveyor, bonus DLC.
• Trainz Plus - the subscription version with Surveyor 2.0, the ability to load edit and save HD routes, full access to Multiplayer Surveyor, TLR with Dispatch Manager, bonus DLC, regular updates with new features.
• Trainz PLus Gold - as above for Trainz Plus with unlimited access to all DLC for no extra charge.

 

[amigacooke]

You have a real choice, not an illusion.

• TRS22 - the standard version.
• TRS22PE - the deluxe version with Surveyor 2.0, the ability to load (but not edit) HD routes, limited access to Multiplayer Surveyor, bonus DLC.
• Trainz Plus - the subscription version with Surveyor 2.0, the ability to load edit and save HD routes, full access to Multiplayer Surveyor, TLR with Dispatch Manager, bonus DLC, regular updates with new features.
• Trainz PLus Gold - as above for Trainz Plus with unlimited access to all DLC for no extra charge.

When the subscription option came in we were told it wouldn't alter our options, but it did, that was the illusion. Buying a non-subscription option now means you can not have the full feature set, that was not the case with TRS19. If you want all the latest features you have to take a subscription, N3V have made it the only option for TLR, full multiplayer, HD terrain editing and exclusive DLR.

 

[pware]

There were two versions of TRS19. The PE version, which had the UDS, and the standard version which did not. What illusions did you have about TRS22 and TRS22PE?

I have had this argument before - it is common practice in business to offer 'members" (i.e. "subscribers") extra perks and features. The social clubs that I belong to do it. I have bought other subscription software that includes extra features and support not found in the retail pay once only version. That brings in extra revenue to the clubs and developers and keeps them going. I have no problems with that.

 

[amigacooke]

There were two versions of TRS19. The PE version, which had the UDS, and the standard version which did not. What illusions did you have about TRS22 and TRS22PE?

I have had this argument before - it is common practice in business to offer 'members" (i.e. "subscribers") extra perks and features. The social clubs that I belong to do it. I have bought other subscription software that includes extra features and support not found in the retail pay once only version. That brings in extra revenue to the clubs and developers and keeps them going. I have no problems with that.

No and fair enough.

The subscription was bought in as an alternative choice. The benefit was that you gained access to new features before the next retail version. The problem there was that it could look like you were playing extra to beta test the new features.

So N3V have moved the goalposts. The retail version is now inferior to the subscription version and I imagine will stay so. Personally that means I will not buy any new retail until it is substantially discounted, I have no incentive to do do. If I'm behind the cutting edge, I may as well stay way behind the cutting edge as it's a considerable financial benefit to do so.

 

[pware]

Fair enough, that is a decision based on your circumstances.

The retail version is now inferior to the subscription version and I imagine will stay so.

The current retail version always has been inferior to the current subscription version, and so it should be.

Trainz Plus was released with S20 when the (then) current deluxe version was TRS19PE, which did not have S20. TRS19PE was one step behind Trainz Plus.

When the next retail version was released Trainz Plus had added HD Terrain and multiplayer surveyor. The deluxe retail version, TRS22PE, had S20 added but not HD (in an editable format) and a limited version of multiplayer surveyor. Again, one step (or half a step in this case) behind Trainz Plus.

The current update to Trainz Plus has TLR and Dispatch Manager. Possibly (speculation) the next deluxe retail release (TRS26??) *may* have full HD and multiplayer surveyor (guessing). Again one step ...

There is a pattern here. If you want the latest features NOW then you will have to get the subscription. If you don't want the subscription then you will have to wait for the next retail release. N3V have always been perfectly clear about this, no illusions, no deceptions.

I get the impression that some posters want all the latest features in the latest retail version. In that case what would be the purpose of having a subscription version? Maybe that is the point being made by those posters? Tony (head N3V dispatcher) has stated that the subscription model has been so successful that they have been able to employ more programmers - that benefits us all. The alternative is the "boom - bust" model where they made most of their sales and income immediately after releasing a new version and then the sales and income dropped off while the next version was being developed, when they most needed that income. The subscription has, according to Tony, broken that "boom - bust" model.

 

[amigacooke]

Trainz Plus was released with S20 when the (then) current deluxe version was TRS19PE, which did not have S20. TRS19PE was one step behind Trainz Plus.

When it comes to features the TRS19 FAQ page comparison chart seems to disagree.

Trainz Portal

Explore, Drive and Create with the ultimate train simulator experience for PC, Mac and Mobile. Hundreds of thousands of items available for free on the Download Station.

www.trainzportal.com

 

[pware]

When it comes to features the TRS19 FAQ page comparison chart seems to disagree.

Have to disagree with you there. That page compares the features of three different versions of TRS19 (and I didn't know about the third version), it does not mention Trainz Plus nor does it give a comparison between TRS19 and Trainz Plus.

 

[amigacooke]

Have to disagree with you there. That page compares the features of three different versions of TRS19 (and I didn't know about the third version), it does not mention Trainz Plus nor does it give a comparison between TRS19 and Trainz Plus.

Trainz Plus Member just to the right of TRS19 Platinum Edition.

 

[H222]

If your problem is that you willingly don’t pay as much as somebody else chooses to, and you as such receive less than those who pay more than you, then how on earth do you live your life?

I don’t pay as much as the Porsche owner next door and as such I don’t have a Porsche. Crazy concept.

 

[pware]

Trainz Plus Member just to the right of TRS19 Platinum Edition.

I think I may have found what you are taking about.

Trainz Plus had Surveyor 2.0 added (if that is the issue) in an update well after TRS19PE was released. There is no date I could find on that page but I suspect that the page is comparing the two products prior to the S20 update to Trainz Plus. The subscription price at the bottom is not the current subscription price so, again, I suspect that it is an old page.

 

[amigacooke]

I think I may have found what you are taking about.

Trainz Plus had Surveyor 2.0 added (if that is the issue) in an update well after TRS19PE was released. There is no date I could find on that page but I suspect that the page is comparing the two products prior to the S20 update to Trainz Plus. The subscription price at the bottom is not the current subscription price so, again, I suspect that it is an old page.

The graphic is dated, so you can see when it refers to. The point is that the retail version of Trainz and Trainz Plus were feature identical at that time. That is no longer the case as N3V has chosen to make the latest retail version feature inferior.

Now if you’re a subscriber I can see why you’re not concerned, because your version hasn’t been deliberately crippled to make it a less attractive option.