What's going on here then? - BR 9F Evening Star & Black Prince

[pware]

Like it or not, that is what pays the bills at N3V.

The alternative looks very much like "Open Rails" and other community based hobby and gaming software. Throw in the small niche market that is the Railroad Sim/Gaming community and you get an over reliance on a small, and highly variable, number of talented but dedicated individuals working part time. Reading the Open Rails Wikipedia article revealed that there were several years when they had only one active developer. Development time is slow and new releases even slower. I recently noted (and posted in these forums) that the latest new development in Open Rail allows users, for the first time, to drive a route in the opposite direction. I am not criticising Open Rails but merely pointing out where community based development usually ends up.

There are many things in life where those who can afford it get more benefits than those who cannot. In an ideal world this would not be the case, everyone would have equal access to everything.

I would love to buy a brand new Porche for the price of a second hand Toyota but that is not going to happen. I am a member of a licensed club and pay an annual membership fee. Anyone can walk in off the street to drink at the club bar, eat at the restaurant, workout at the gym, see the entertainment shows but as a paid up member I get discounts on everything (including food and drinks) and access to deals that outsiders do not get. That is why I pay the annual fee. Is that fair? It is actually the members, not the "walk-ins", who keep the club going and pay their bills.

Tony has posted that the subscription system has allowed N3V to pay for additional programmers. If the exclusive "Gold only" DLC offering adds to this (by attracting new subscribers) then I am all in favour. But no-one has been able to point to any post from N3V that proves that these offerings will never be available, even at a price, to non-Gold members.

 

[amigacooke]

But no-one has been able to point to any post from N3V that proves that these offerings will never be available, even at a price, to non-Gold members.

Obviously N3V would post post that.

Dovetail operate without subscription and that’s where my money is going at the moment.

 

[pware]

Dovetail operate without subscription and that’s where my money is going at the moment.

I know absolutely nothing about Dovetail and their product but if it suits you better then good luck to you. N3V also offers subscription free versions of Trainz so you have the choice. For me the subscription is the better option and I can afford it.

 

[amigacooke]

I know absolutely nothing about Dovetail and their product but if it suits you better then good luck to you. N3V also offers subscription free versions of Trainz so you have the choice. For me the subscription is the better option and I can afford it.

If you are constantly paying for a product, how can it be free? To get a ‘free’ version, you have to pay a yearly subscription.

 

[PortLineParker]

If you are constantly paying for a product, how can it be free? To get a ‘free’ version, you have to pay a yearly subscription.

Isn't the vast majority of Dovetail content DLC? The DLS and its vast selection of content is one of the aspects that puts Trainz above the rest for me.

I think what pware is saying though is that you can use Trainz without a subscription if you don't want to go down that route, but of course you still need to buy a version of the game in the first place. One of the many benefits of Plus I find is that I pay a small amount each month and have access to all the DLC, including previews, and receive updates to the core game meaning I have the latest version. It's easier for me to stomach then paying however much for a new edition each time and I prefer it, but it comes down to personal preference.

Cheers,

PLP

 

[pware]

If you are constantly paying for a product, how can it be free?

The key term was "subscription free", not "free of any payment"

 

[amigacooke]

The key term was "subscription free", not "free of any payment"

You have to pay an annual subscription to get the ‘free’ version, which is more than just paying for the retail version.

 

[KotangaGirl]

Isn't the vast majority of Dovetail content DLC?

There is community involvement with route and session creation that is free, but the assets needed to create the routes are all payware.
I own the Dovetail simulator as well as Trainz, but I wouldn't exactly call it perfect and there are a number of things about it that I don't like. Trainz might not be perfection either, but it's still where I spend most of my time.

 

[pware]

You have to pay an annual subscription to get the ‘free’ version, which is more than just paying for the retail version.

If, in your first year of using Trainz, you buy the retail version, TRS22PE, and then only the first 3 routes available on the DLC (no locos or rolling stock) then you have exceeded the cost of your first annual subscription for Trainz Plus Gold membership with unlimited DLC access (without having to pay for each DLC item).

If, in the second year, you buy 4 DLC routes and some loco/rolling stock packs then, again, you have exceeded the cost of your second annual Gold membership subscription.

And so on for the third year.

In the forth year you decide to update to TRS25PE (or whatever it will be called) and the whole cycle starts again. With Gold or Standard Trainz Plus membership your version of Trainz will be automatically updated with the new features several times each year.

I understand that DLC and subscriptions are not for everyone so the options of outright purchase and the "free" DLS (after paying to buy Trainz) are still available to everyone.

 

[JCitron]

If, in your first year of using Trainz, you buy the retail version, TRS22PE, and then only the first 3 routes available on the DLC (no locos or rolling stock) then you have exceeded the cost of your first annual subscription for Trainz Plus Gold membership with unlimited DLC access (without having to pay for each DLC item).

If, in the second year, you buy 4 DLC routes and some loco/rolling stock packs then, again, you have exceeded the cost of your second annual Gold membership subscription.

And so on for the third year.

In the forth year you decide to update to TRS25PE (or whatever it will be called) and the whole cycle starts again. With Gold or Standard Trainz Plus membership your version of Trainz will be automatically updated with the new features several times each year.

I understand that DLC and subscriptions are not for everyone so the options of outright purchase and the "free" DLS (after paying to buy Trainz) are still available to everyone.

I've said "The day I can't afford $12.99 a month there's really something wrong with my finances. Yes, as a long time Trainzer, N3V offered a discount at the time. I'm not sure if they do that now.

At that cost per month, the ROI is pretty high for a hobby I enjoy.

 

[Forester1]

John, do you know if they are still offering the monthly rate? I am looking in the store and they are advertising $129.49 USD/year, but I see no option for monthly. I clicked "Join Now" but there the monthly option is grayed out and no numbers are listed.

 

[amigacooke]

If, in your first year of using Trainz, you buy the retail version, TRS22PE, and then only the first 3 routes available on the DLC (no locos or rolling stock) then you have exceeded the cost of your first annual subscription for Trainz Plus Gold membership with unlimited DLC access (without having to pay for each DLC item).

If, in the second year, you buy 4 DLC routes and some loco/rolling stock packs then, again, you have exceeded the cost of your second annual Gold membership subscription.

And so on for the third year.

In the forth year you decide to update to TRS25PE (or whatever it will be called) and the whole cycle starts again. With Gold or Standard Trainz Plus membership your version of Trainz will be automatically updated with the new features several times each year.

I understand that DLC and subscriptions are not for everyone so the options of outright purchase and the "free" DLS (after paying to buy Trainz) are still available to everyone.

The retail versions are discounted, is the subscription ever discounted?

 

[pware]

The retail versions are discounted, is the subscription ever discounted?

Don't know the answer to that. There are, on occasion, special deals offered to subscribers. For example - a year ago if you renewed your annual subscription you could download and install the retail TRS22PE at no cost to keep even if you cancelled the subscription a year later. That was how I got my copy of TRS22PE.

 

[JCitron]

John, do you know if they are still offering the monthly rate? I am looking in the store and they are advertising $129.49 USD/year, but I see no option for monthly. I clicked "Join Now" but there the monthly option is grayed out and no numbers are listed.

They did last year or the last time I looked. I can't check anything because I'm already subscribed.

That looks to be a question for the Help Desk.

 

[grazlash]

I can confirm that a monthly gold subscription is still available priced at US$14.99 per month.
The header of the monthly option is shown in gray lettering, but when monthly is clicked on, the annual sub lettering changes to gray.
To the best of my knowledge the gold subscription has never been discounted, however, you do have access to ALL REGULAR CONTENT, access to EXCLUSIVE CONTENT, an FCT (or a discount if you have an active FCT), a 25% discount on regular content and new features first, as a sweetener.

 

[Forester1]

Thank you for the clarification, Grazlash.

 

[paulper]

The retail versions are discounted, is the subscription ever discounted?

I dabbled with the Dovetail product but found myself having to keep purchasing add-ons to enjoy the routes I wanted and my spend ended up far exceeding an annual Trainz Plus subscription, which is the right Trainz product for me, so each to their own.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

About 12 quid a month in UK. I dropped to Plus only as 3/4 of the DLC is of no interest to me.

 

[itstypicalrailfanner]

As with everything, you get what you pay for....

The standard Edition is JUST that. Anything extra you have to pay for.
I agree that the items available for the subscription plans, should not be advertised on the Content page.
I also agree that the users on the Plus plans , should also get extra tit bits for being on those plans.

If you really want those content, you have a choice...

Pay for the plan or STOP WHINGING ....

An ultimatum like that perfectly describes why so many game companies are slowly collapsing and losing money. Again, paying for the plan is no longer an acceptable option. By making certain dlc exclusive to Trainz Plus, N3V Games are dividing the player base to the point where they may end up losing more money than they make. It's happening to Ubisoft, it's happening to EA, it's happening to Activision, it's happening to 343 and it'll happen to N3V Games if they keep doing it. The fact you're more than willing to advocate for and push anti-consumer practices is precisely why the game industry is collapsing.

 

[itstypicalrailfanner]

I dabbled with the Dovetail product but found myself having to keep purchasing add-ons to enjoy the routes I wanted and my spend ended up far exceeding an annual Trainz Plus subscription, which is the right Trainz product for me, so each to their own.

Train Sim Classic's Rail Subscription is cheaper (even if the amount of content is limited). I'd rather actually purchase dlc than rent it. It's a much better option and should be the standard.