What's going on here then? - BR 9F Evening Star & Black Prince

[N3VSupport]

No and fair enough.

The subscription was bought in as an alternative choice. The benefit was that you gained access to new features before the next retail version. The problem there was that it could look like you were playing extra to beta test the new features.

So N3V have moved the goalposts. The retail version is now inferior to the subscription version and I imagine will stay so. Personally that means I will not buy any new retail until it is substantially discounted, I have no incentive to do do. If I'm behind the cutting edge, I may as well stay way behind the cutting edge as it's a considerable financial benefit to do so.

From the start of offering the Trainz Plus subscription, the Trianz Plus version has had additional new features; the first Trainz Plus release after TRS19 itself (Trainz Plus had early access to TRS19 itself) included exclusive new features (the new camera options, new menu bar in Surveyor, new session logging window, controller support and an early implementation of what is now the TCCP interface).

So this isn't new, or different, from when Trainz Plus was launched. Trainz Plus provides early access to new features, most of these will be intended for future retail releases (and sometimes might be added in patches for the current retail version; as is the case with the new Treez/Plant Factory system), however sometimes these may not make it to retail versions for various reasons (ie there have sometimes been changes made, that later themselves get replaced before a retail version).

Regards

 

[Vuil_Sekreet]

From the start of offering the Trainz Plus subscription, the Trianz Plus version has had additional new features; the first Trainz Plus release after TRS19 itself (Trainz Plus had early access to TRS19 itself) included exclusive new features (the new camera options, new menu bar in Surveyor, new session logging window, controller support and an early implementation of what is now the TCCP interface).

So this isn't new, or different, from when Trainz Plus was launched. Trainz Plus provides early access to new features, most of these will be intended for future retail releases (and sometimes might be added in patches for the current retail version; as is the case with the new Treez/Plant Factory system), however sometimes these may not make it to retail versions for various reasons (ie there have sometimes been changes made, that later themselves get replaced before a retail version).

Regards

I understand this policy used for features like surveyor 2.0 and so on but not for "regular" DLC like locomotives as is the case with the Evening Star.

 

[H222]

Why not? That’s simply a perk of a gold subscription.

 

[pware]

This is how the real world works, like it or not. The "perks", such as access to DLC that non-subscribers cannot even buy, is a marketing tool used to attract more subscribers. And it works in many places, businesses and industries. If it brings in more revenue to N3V then it benefits us all.

 

[grazlash]

If you don't like subscriptions and extra perks as provided by N3V, don't go and buy a new VW Golf. You need a subscription to enable an extra 20kwh performance. Also, forget buying an HP printer as they want you to subscribe to an ink replacement service just to be able to keep printing.

 

[amigacooke]

If you don't like subscriptions and extra perks as provided by N3V, don't go and buy a new VW Golf.

Alright then, I won't.

 

[amigacooke]

From the start of offering the Trainz Plus subscription, the Trianz Plus version has had additional new features; the first Trainz Plus release after TRS19 itself (Trainz Plus had early access to TRS19 itself) included exclusive new features (the new camera options, new menu bar in Surveyor, new session logging window, controller support and an early implementation of what is now the TCCP interface).

'The first Trainz Plus release after TRS19', doesn't that logically imply that when TRS19 was launched, Trainz Plus didn't have the extra features?

 

[JCitron]

'The first Trainz Plus release after TRS19', doesn't that logically imply that when TRS19 was launched, Trainz Plus didn't have the extra features?

The TRS19 'Plus' version was still using the old model of extra content and access to new testing stuff while the beta wasn't exclusive to Plus users. In a way it was a much better environment. Plus was still integrated into TRS19 and not listed as a separate product.

When TRS22 came out, the same model was followed then they changed things a short time later to what we have. To be honest, even as a Plus subscriber, I prefer the old model and not what we have now.

 

[N3VSupport]

'The first Trainz Plus release after TRS19', doesn't that logically imply that when TRS19 was launched, Trainz Plus didn't have the extra features?

Trainz Plus subscribers got early access to TRS19 itself; after TRS19 was released Trainz Plus then got early access to further new features/updates. Just double checked, and the first announcement did state the following "New Trainz PLUS features before anyone else gets to see them (beginning post-release)".

Again, early access to new features/content was a core part of Trainz Plus from it's inception. Some content has been exclusive to Trainz Plus or Trainz Plus Gold as well; however that doesn't mean that all DLC packs will be exclusive, some may be included with retail versions later on (either as core builtin, or as part of future Platinum Edition versions, or similar). Initially the DLC portion was based around 'selections' of DLC each month, however after a short time this changed to the entire content set + exclusive DLCs over time.

However again, the subscriptions pay for this content to be developed, and as such are where they will be released, unless included as builtin/platinum content later on. Otherwise we simply wouldn't be developing/releasing this content.

Regards

 

[Vuil_Sekreet]

Why not? That’s simply a perk of a gold subscription.

Because people already bought the version they want to use and are not likely to buy a sub. N3V could make extra money by selling the DLC to this group of people.

 

[pware]

N3V could make extra money by selling the DLC to this group of people.

The counter argument would be that there are users who bought the Gold subscription just to get the Gold only DLC.

In an earlier post I did a "back of envelope" calculation that indicted that they would need to sell 13 average priced DLC packages to equal the income of a single annual Gold subscription and those 13 sales would be once only while the subscription could be renewed annually.

 

[wreeder]

Maybe it would help to understand that not all DLC is the same.
The most common is made by a user(s) of the community and submitted to N3V for sale through the Trainz Store. The selling price is split between N3V and the creator(s). This type is always on the store.

The next is in house made DLC. It seems that it almost always destined for a new retail version but is available to Trainz Plus subscribers as a benefit of being a subscriber. Since it is going to be a selling point for the next retail version, it doesn't make much sense to sell it separately before or after the next retail version is released.

Lastly, N3V seems to commission items to be made for Trainz Plus exclusives. They don't seem destined to be sold separately or in a new retail version. But of course, N3V could choose to do so if it wants and the terms of the commission allows for that action to be taken. As Peter points out, it is a reason to buy a subscription.

 

[wreeder]

I would point out that the Trainz Plus Gold membership is available on a monthly basis as well as annual. You could pay $14.99 and try out all the DLC that interests you and buy the items you intend to use in the retail version at a 25% discount. Cancel the membership and enjoy your DLC.

 

[stovepipe]

I would point out that the Trainz Plus Gold membership is available on a monthly basis as well as annual. You could pay $14.99 and try out all the DLC that interests you and buy the items you intend to use in the retail version at a 25% discount. Cancel the membership and enjoy your DLC.

That would only work on the DLC that is available to buy already. The subject of this thread is the category of DLC that you have to 'own' (N3Vs words) a Plus Gold membership to use. This type of DLC is not available to buy for anyone, all you can do is access it via a subscription.

Whatever the pros and cons, no-one seems to be encouraged to make any new add-on sessions using the newest DLC, or at least it seems that way to me. A lost opportunity to push Plus Gold sub sales perhaps?

 

[Vuil_Sekreet]

The counter argument would be that there are users who bought the Gold subscription just to get the Gold only DLC.

In an earlier post I did a "back of envelope" calculation that indicted that they would need to sell 13 average priced DLC packages to equal the income of a single annual Gold subscription and those 13 sales would be once only while the subscription could be renewed annually.

That is just silly. If the customer is not willing to buy a sub then N3V will not get ANY money from that source besides the initial amount paid for the standalone version. However, they could get an extra few $ from that customer IF customer could buy the DLC which customer can not now. I am not debating N3V may choose the way they want to sell their product, they obviously can, but the arguments used to defend their decision makes no logical sense.

 

[Vuil_Sekreet]

I would point out that the Trainz Plus Gold membership is available on a monthly basis as well as annual. You could pay $14.99 and try out all the DLC that interests you and buy the items you intend to use in the retail version at a 25% discount. Cancel the membership and enjoy your DLC.

That is obviously not true because you can not buy the item which sparked this topic of discussion.

 

[wreeder]

makes no logical sense

To you maybe. Makes perfect sense to us. N3V receives a continuous stream of revenue from subscriptions as long as they are renewed year after year. Exclusive content to subscribers is a strong incentive to renew. Over a three year period, the current development cycle duration, a Gold member pays N3V at least $390 plus any DLC purchased by the subscriber. While a retail user of TRS22 pay $70 once and then whatever DLC might be purchased. That is at least $320 that must be spent by the average retail version user. You are making the assumption that a Gold subscriber would not buy DLC because they get it "free". However, many Trainz Plus subscribers used the deal that has been offered twice to get a perpetual license for TRS22 or TRS22 PE by renewing their subscription. I use Trainz Plus to try out DLC and if I like it then I buy it for TRS22 PE.

The discussion comes down to some users want the benefits of a subscription without paying the cost.

 

[pware]

That is just silly. If the customer is not willing to buy a sub then N3V will not get ANY money from that source besides the initial amount paid for the standalone version. However, they could get an extra few $ from that customer IF customer could buy the DLC which customer can not now. I am not debating N3V may choose the way they want to sell their product, they obviously can, but the arguments used to defend their decision makes no logical sense.

All speculation. Neither of us have the sales data from N3V and their customers to prove our points either way. Same with your claim that this decision by N3V "makes no logical sense" - neither of us are in the business of selling Railway Simulator software, they are.

 

[itstypicalrailfanner]

All speculation. Neither of us have the sales data from N3V and their customers to prove our points either way. Same with your claim that this decision by N3V "makes no logical sense" - neither of us are in the business of selling Railway Simulator software, they are.

Business logic is business logic. It may work from a business point of view, however if it makes no sense to do it (e.g. it divides your customers and causes debates like this one here) then it shouldn't exist, regardless of how much cash it would rake in. I sure wouldn't want to run a business where the whole point of a subscription of mine is to convince people to subscribe on the basis of content inaccessible to regular customers. That's like selling a pair of Jordans while locking the latest Nike shoes behind a subscription without the option of even buying it. It only makes sense from a business perspective because the only thing a lot of business care about is making the most money possible at the customers' expense. While we're at it, we might as well start making Star Wars movies exclusive to disney plus and not sell dvd copies of the films anymore. Oh wait, but then Disney would make things even worse for themselves.

Just because it's business, doesn't mean it's okay, no matter how you try to paint the picture. It will always be a reflection of the artist.

 

[pware]

Just because it's business, doesn't mean it's okay, no matter how you try to paint the picture. It will always be a reflection of the artist.

When you start up your own business creating and selling software for a small niche market, I will be very interested in seeing your sales strategies and how they pan out. But until then we are going to have to disagree on our opinions.