What is the verdict for 2009?
- Thread starter Tony_Hilliam
- Start date
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Not taken personally but saying 80% of the creators work is rubbish isn't terribly tactful and it may put a few people off creating. I work with some of the pickiest beta testers in the game and we still miss things and that is spending a lot of time checking when we have a new mesh then simply cloning it for the reskins. In fact I think I have new versions for some twenty items sitting in the queue for the download station at the moment for something very simple that got overlooked.
I'm aware that some DLS items are hopelessly inefficient but on the other hand the content creators are enjoying themselves and it does create content that wouldn't be available otherwise. I think Paul Hobbs once said the number of content creators who create reasonable content is actually very small.
Best practices / guidelines for content creation well content creators sort of stumble across things, there is a Trainz wiki in Traindev but it could do with a bit more information. Many of the tutorials are outdated or impossible to follow, part of the reason behind the wikibook for Trainz. People have actually been known to get a sense of achievement for getting some thing to appear in Trainz.
TRS2009 actually helps on the quality side it does a lot more error checking than TRS2006 ever did.
I think part of the charm of Trainz is the openendness and variety that the DLS gives us. Yes you can buy Payware for other SIMS and get great looking items out of the box but I've yet to see a passenger set of westerners or 1890 dressed people in something other than Trainz. I do accept that the 1890 passenger set could be more efficent but at least it exists.
Cheerio John
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I've upgraded from 2006 (which perhaps I'm lucky, but I really did not have the same issues as others with it).
So far 2009 is great. I'm looking forward to the new content. I for one am very appreciative of those content creators out there who are willing to provide their creations for free. They could easily charge for their efforts. I went to Trainz as my son really enjoys trains and building layouts. It gets REAL expensive to build a model layout, even in N or Z scale. Not to mention the room required. So to have a less expensive way to enjoy the hobby is great.
I also understand this is a game. The "realism" won't be there, nor do I expect it. My son and I enjoy both creating routes and driving the trains. It does not really matter that the engine breaks quickly. In fact this makes it easier for my son to drive the trains (he's only 7).
There is potential for improvement, however this is true of everything.
So far 2009 is great. I'm looking forward to the new content. I for one am very appreciative of those content creators out there who are willing to provide their creations for free. They could easily charge for their efforts. I went to Trainz as my son really enjoys trains and building layouts. It gets REAL expensive to build a model layout, even in N or Z scale. Not to mention the room required. So to have a less expensive way to enjoy the hobby is great.
I also understand this is a game. The "realism" won't be there, nor do I expect it. My son and I enjoy both creating routes and driving the trains. It does not really matter that the engine breaks quickly. In fact this makes it easier for my son to drive the trains (he's only 7).
There is potential for improvement, however this is true of everything.
Shortline2
Joined: 28th Oct. 2002
Hi,
I wonder, how much more do I need to pay to get a even better grid?
I think US$30 for a 5m grid was rather great price, when I add in the support for larger ground texture, a new track mesh system with way better support for great track (in look and performance) and for what it appears, now shadowing showing up on my fill track - I feel I should have needed to pay more.
So, when I win the lottery tomorrow, how much money to I need to send to Auran to get a 2,5 meter grid, or even better, a 1 meter grid... ? LOL
I love the new toolbox that this version of TS2009 gives me, and I knew I just bought a toolbox, as I did follow the threads on the forums which told me what I had coming.
Best wishes all
Linda
I wonder, how much more do I need to pay to get a even better grid?
I think US$30 for a 5m grid was rather great price, when I add in the support for larger ground texture, a new track mesh system with way better support for great track (in look and performance) and for what it appears, now shadowing showing up on my fill track - I feel I should have needed to pay more.
So, when I win the lottery tomorrow, how much money to I need to send to Auran to get a 2,5 meter grid, or even better, a 1 meter grid... ? LOL
I love the new toolbox that this version of TS2009 gives me, and I knew I just bought a toolbox, as I did follow the threads on the forums which told me what I had coming.
Best wishes all
Linda
Sorry I stepped on toes, not my intention. Maybe some of the tutorials and other tools you mentioned need updating so it helps people make quality content for the game. Content that takes advantage of what this game is capable of rendering. I don't know who would be willing to step up to the plate and do such a thing though.
All I know is, for those of you who like creating content and are good at it, it seems you now have a new version of this game that will showcase your masterpieces of hardwork. The new loco in this game looks awesome, I am very impressed and I'm strongly hoping content creaters strive to make similar looking content. But on the flipside of that, I hope the content just doesn't look good but operates just as good as well. For instance, you can make the most realistic looking loco, but if it doesn't operate realisticly...see my point?
I live in the midwest of US and a main rail line that comes through my town is Norfolk Southern, I love the way their locomotives look and found quit a few on the DLS for TRS06 that I have. Most looked great, had great plums of smoke out the top, good sounding horns, but didn't operate as well. I couldn't assign a running number so every loco had the same number, physics where way off the mark, one thing that irritated me and still does is not having incremental breaking. I use a keyboard when playing as I'm sure most probably do, when I'm running my train and happen upon a down grade I want the ability to apply only 10, 20, 30 pounds of break line pressure for the duration of the down grade to keep my loco at the posted speed limit. Virtualy every persons loco I downloaded off DLS didn't bother to impliment this feature. It was either full break pressure or full release of break pressure. So what do you have to do?? Constantly apply and release full break pressure to maintain a certain speed. Makes it real fun when your trying to couple up to rolling stock parked in a railyard. You have to resort to coasting and applying break pressure at the right time to couple to the cars slowly yet not let the loco fully stop 2 feet away. Now plently of the loco's that came with TRS06 had incrimental breaking, so is that something the content making community couldn't figure out how to do, didn't have the resources available to them to make happen, or was it a case of just wanting to make a cool looking loco but didn't give it 110% and didn't go the extra mile to make it operate like one too?? The new SD-45 UP loco in this new game doesn't have incremental breaking in it either, it's either full break or no break. So although it may look awesome, doesn't work awesome. This game is a "simulator" right?
Again sorry if I offended anyone, I know a lot of you are veterans of this franchise and have been here since day one. I just jumped on board since TRS06 came out a couple years ago and haven't hardly posted on these boards till recently so I know I'm the newb guy here technically and I know people look at post count to judge validity of a persons comments.
Anyway, thanks for reading.
Hot_Box_Detector
Member
1st impressions
I purchased and dl'd the Beta1 and beta2 versions. I never recieved an email about the "release" version, so I can't comment.
1. The first thing I noticed was that the AI seems "dumbed down" i.e. when a loco has a switch lined against it, sometimes it won't throw the switch in question...it just reverts to "cab" mode.
2. The second thing is that the search ability seems like it has taken two steps backward, i.e. no drop down menus when searching objects, showing creator or area of the world they were made for. How about a "railyard" type screen for objects ? CMP shows that I have nearly 100,000 items. How am I supposed to find the item if I don't know the exact name, or if it even exists, or what it is named by the creator if there isn't some way to narrow the search?
3. CMP is still a PITA, won't DL anything automatically. although I was able to import several items from previous versions.
Overall, I would agree with previous posters, it's basically TRS '04 with lipstick.
Thanks, Mike
I purchased and dl'd the Beta1 and beta2 versions. I never recieved an email about the "release" version, so I can't comment.
1. The first thing I noticed was that the AI seems "dumbed down" i.e. when a loco has a switch lined against it, sometimes it won't throw the switch in question...it just reverts to "cab" mode.
2. The second thing is that the search ability seems like it has taken two steps backward, i.e. no drop down menus when searching objects, showing creator or area of the world they were made for. How about a "railyard" type screen for objects ? CMP shows that I have nearly 100,000 items. How am I supposed to find the item if I don't know the exact name, or if it even exists, or what it is named by the creator if there isn't some way to narrow the search?
3. CMP is still a PITA, won't DL anything automatically. although I was able to import several items from previous versions.
Overall, I would agree with previous posters, it's basically TRS '04 with lipstick.
Thanks, Mike
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Well now I don't feel too bad about my comments. Your a veteran of these boards making similar comments about the game itself.
I went to create my own Session on a blank map, went to look at what industries I have available to me and there is no longer the ability to sort by type. See THIS link to see what I mean and look where the white arrow is pointing. It's hard to read but the top sorter says ALL and the bottom says Industry. That was a NICE feature. Now I have to look down the entire list and look at almost every object as, sorry, I don't have every content in the game memorized by it's name to know what it is. How did that feature get left out?? Will be fixed in SP1 right Auran?? "Yes", says Auran. And please have someone go through the content and give it a file name that's relative to what the object actually is please!! How many of you know what a DRW STW is??? It's in the game.
Yeah I've had loco's not switch junctions either, they just sit there. I have to switch it for them then they'll continue their route.
....I remember a time when I could purchase Trainz and have good quality 'stuff' already in the game and the 'good will of the people' i.e. content creators - did what they did because they 'wanted to' - I guess even had fun doing so. Now, we have a new game the comes with nothing new in it(content wise) and RELIES on the 'good will of the people' for its ultimate success!!! Well, I guess there is no pressure here content creators but, it is up to you now to demonstrate to us, and the rest of the world, that 2009 is worth the investment!!!
O.K. I know I am being sarcastic but, my point is that TRS2009 sort of has turned things around a bit, don't you think! While I can appreciate the 'improvements' in the games (TRS2009) ability to render and perform better, I think it is interesting how AURAN have made US now responsible for whether or not it IS by definition, a better sim/game. Basically, it is an 'unfinished' product until all the content creators get on board...........and do their thing!
Just my 2 cents worth!!
roymac
O.K. I know I am being sarcastic but, my point is that TRS2009 sort of has turned things around a bit, don't you think! While I can appreciate the 'improvements' in the games (TRS2009) ability to render and perform better, I think it is interesting how AURAN have made US now responsible for whether or not it IS by definition, a better sim/game. Basically, it is an 'unfinished' product until all the content creators get on board...........and do their thing!
Just my 2 cents worth!!
roymac
xphantomx -
The content creators have made every version of Trainz what it is , and we rely on them to now create for TS2009 , those that discourage them are shooting thierselves in the foot !
There are several members who have very few post counts , but every one of them are either a legitimate question or a piece of solid advice , these are the ones we place in group to respect . Some , have thousands , by simply ranting and raving on one particular thread and soon are not respected by other members ! They are soon placed in a group that also is not judged by the number of their posts . We must be careful as to which group we eventualy are placed in ?
My thoughts --- ,DLR
The content creators have made every version of Trainz what it is , and we rely on them to now create for TS2009 , those that discourage them are shooting thierselves in the foot !
There are several members who have very few post counts , but every one of them are either a legitimate question or a piece of solid advice , these are the ones we place in group to respect . Some , have thousands , by simply ranting and raving on one particular thread and soon are not respected by other members ! They are soon placed in a group that also is not judged by the number of their posts . We must be careful as to which group we eventualy are placed in ?
My thoughts --- ,DLR
Terrible game .. no improvments , no new content , poor performance , bad CM2 , no backward compatibility
:clap:
:hehe:
slave-driver
Sacramento Nothern Lives
I was impressed by beta2. I can't give a honest opinion on the release version until I get my DVD copy. But from what I've already seen and experienced I'll be changing from 2004 to 2009.
And if you guys want to continue your lively discussion use the PM function the forum offers. It works wonders.
Bill
And if you guys want to continue your lively discussion use the PM function the forum offers. It works wonders.
Bill
I like your 2 cents! As I said before, we bought the 'promise' of a new graphically advanced game, but it's dependant on the content creaters to make it that way. And what happens if the content creaters don't feel like making the new cool looking content?? We just bought TRS04 / 06 again cause that's basically all it is without the new graphic content to go with it. And as I said before, not all content creaters have the skill level probably needed to make that level of content. So then what?
It's like a car company saying, "ok here is a high performance engine, but you the consumer have to make the car to put it in before you can see what the engine is capable of. Wait...what??
Terrible game .. no improvments , no new content , poor performance , bad CM2 , no backward compatibility
:clap:
:hehe:
I know your reply is sarcastic but I'll reply by saying, average game, most noticable improvement is something we can only see with one new track and one new loco, ditto for new content, better performance, good CM2, and 100% backward compatibility as that's pretty much all the content there is.
As the game is right now, it's as someone else said, it's TRS04 or 06 with lipstick. It's up to the consumer to actually make the game and if they don't feel like doing so, we're sh** ouf of luck huh? And it's like I said above, they make the engine and we have to make the car or the engine is of no use, seems like the easy way out of actually making a new game don't you think??
I'm sure most will agree that they would have been more than happy to spend an extra 15-20 bucks and wait a few more months to have nothing but new content in the game that takes advantage of that nice graphic engine. And the amount of that content doesn't even have to be as much as what this game currently has of old content for people to be happy.
I bought a product that I now have to wait for my next door neighbor to create content for before I can fully utilize what I bought. You do understand that concept right??
It's like puchasing a new house only to find out that it is an old house with new tools that most people do not know how to use..with barely any instructions on how to use these tools to make your new/old house look new...All i can do is build routes with this out dated looking content..I have asked for a tutorail for all of us on how to IMPROVE this OLD CONTENT that shipped with the NEW world builder. All I can find are tutorials on how to make your own stuff from scratch or import OLD stuff. Please start with taking a pre loaded Loco and teaching us how to make it look like the box on 2009:'( :'( :'( :'(
I have no problems with doing this myself I just cant find out how yet...
I have no problems with doing this myself I just cant find out how yet...
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Yeah, that's it. Give you a new tool but don't tell you how to use it.
What good is a new graphic engine if content creators don't know how to fully utilize it's capability and there is no resources available to learn how?? Does this freeware graphic software like GMAX, Blender or whatever they are even capable of making high res images like the new loco in the game has?? If they don't then what? People going to have to spend a fortune on powerful graphic software in order to do so?
I understand your point fully.
And the same applies to ...
http://www.railsimulator.com/
http://www.fsinsider.com/Pages/default.aspx
And will apply to ...
http://www.tsinsider.com/default.aspx
I believe I do ... I've read it all before .. on all Sim forums .
And the same applies to ...
http://www.railsimulator.com/
http://www.fsinsider.com/Pages/default.aspx
And will apply to ...
http://www.tsinsider.com/default.aspx
I believe I do ... I've read it all before .. on all Sim forums .
No I actually have the new railsimulator game and all it's content is rendered new and better than the previous versions of that game to the best of my knowledge. They didn't give me a new game with 100% old graphically rendered content. They gave me a new game with new graphically rendered content. So any content that my neighbor creates isn't a necessity in order for me to utilize and enjoy the new graphic engine, it's just a bonus!!!!
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First off, I've not yet bought 09... I'm still running the second beta. But this is only due to lack of funds. I will be getting 09 when the funds are available...
But, you've paid what... $30 for a game that has had numerous 'behind the scenes' improvements... Yes, not all are utilised by content yet... But then again, it takes a LONG time to make an item using the new standards. Took me over 10 days to make a 'simple' 20ft long wooden station building. Now, think how long it'll take to make a COMPLETE layout, with locos and stock... Not just a few weeks, but it would take untill TS2009:EE is release, just for ONE layout (with locos and stock)... Hence they have given us, the community, the platform to start with. They've also given us some examples to work from. For $30, it aint bad. Especially since 06, when released, was $90 and the LE DVD edition $120. So, you will pay what... $60 extra for some more content. And this time, you won't get much more content. Simply because, instead of making a single mesh, you now have to make 1 high poly mesh, and then 1 'game' mesh, to get the new features...
So your willing to pay an extra $60 for the new content... You've paid the $30 for the game... So, if compared to 06 (well, you guys are comparing it to 06, so why can't I?), you've now gotta pay $60 for extra content. There was a bit, but only a handfull made by Auran, I think about same as the amount included in 09... So your REALLY paying $60 more for 10 items... Of course, Auran couldn't have included any new 3rd party content in 09 WBE since there wasn't any content to the new standards around. Well, only a small amount, and most of it wouldn't have gone with the other items...
So again, you're willing to pay an extra $60 for another 10 items? That is when compared to 06... Which you guys seem to love doing...
Zec
But, you've paid what... $30 for a game that has had numerous 'behind the scenes' improvements... Yes, not all are utilised by content yet... But then again, it takes a LONG time to make an item using the new standards. Took me over 10 days to make a 'simple' 20ft long wooden station building. Now, think how long it'll take to make a COMPLETE layout, with locos and stock... Not just a few weeks, but it would take untill TS2009:EE is release, just for ONE layout (with locos and stock)... Hence they have given us, the community, the platform to start with. They've also given us some examples to work from. For $30, it aint bad. Especially since 06, when released, was $90 and the LE DVD edition $120. So, you will pay what... $60 extra for some more content. And this time, you won't get much more content. Simply because, instead of making a single mesh, you now have to make 1 high poly mesh, and then 1 'game' mesh, to get the new features...
So your willing to pay an extra $60 for the new content... You've paid the $30 for the game... So, if compared to 06 (well, you guys are comparing it to 06, so why can't I?), you've now gotta pay $60 for extra content. There was a bit, but only a handfull made by Auran, I think about same as the amount included in 09... So your REALLY paying $60 more for 10 items... Of course, Auran couldn't have included any new 3rd party content in 09 WBE since there wasn't any content to the new standards around. Well, only a small amount, and most of it wouldn't have gone with the other items...
So again, you're willing to pay an extra $60 for another 10 items? That is when compared to 06... Which you guys seem to love doing...
Zec
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TrainMan12
New member
As I read more and more of your disgruntled posts xphantomx, It dawns on me that you have no experience nor knowledge in the simulation world.
Unlike many other games, simulators RELY upon user-created content. When I buy a simulator I'm buying the basic platform, the content included in it matters very little to me.
What the Trainz series really needs is a total revamp. A new graphics engine, a new physics engine, and new features. New stuff to keep people interested. If I would see something like this, I would gladly shell out 60+ dollars for it. From what I've read Trainz 2009 is just another hum-drum installment that adds a couple features here and there, but for the most part, it's the same. When I see progress, I'll make sure to pick up a copy; but not until then.
And for the record, KRS is pathetic and has no chance of success.
Unlike many other games, simulators RELY upon user-created content. When I buy a simulator I'm buying the basic platform, the content included in it matters very little to me.
What the Trainz series really needs is a total revamp. A new graphics engine, a new physics engine, and new features. New stuff to keep people interested. If I would see something like this, I would gladly shell out 60+ dollars for it. From what I've read Trainz 2009 is just another hum-drum installment that adds a couple features here and there, but for the most part, it's the same. When I see progress, I'll make sure to pick up a copy; but not until then.
And for the record, KRS is pathetic and has no chance of success.
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