Upgrade Video Card

[steamboateng]

I am running TRS06 on a three year old Alienware tower.
I want to upgrade my video card.
Problem: It's an AGP slot!
Computer specs:
CPU-AMD Athalon 64 FX-55; socket 939
x86 family 15, model 7, stepping 10
current clock speed 1226 mhz
adress width-32 bits
data width-32 bits
Motherboard-Abit AV8 w/ VIA K8T800P-8237 chipset
Memory-2 gig (4x512mb) Corsair DDR
Hard Drives-2x74 Gb Western Digital Raptor-serial ATA
w/VIA SATA Raid O
Video Card-Radeon x800 XT Platinum Edition
w/ 256 mb RAM
Audio Card-Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS (WDM)
Power Supply-525 watts
idle usage ~ 200w.
Trainz usage ~ 260 w.

I'm afraid the video card has seen better days. Don't get the frame rates I used to. This was a great card in its day, but with two limitations-AGP slot (Not PCI) and only 256 mb RAM.
I had cpu heat problems several months ago, even setting off warning alarms, and at least two shutdowns.
(that u-guru is good for somethings!) Don't know if the cpu suffered any damage or if the video card did due to elevated case temperatures.
I fixed the heat problem with a good case cleanout, (do this often folks) and replaced the standard AMD heatsink/fan assembly with a monster heatink/fan. At the same time I changed out one case fan and installed two smaller ones to blow across the two hard drives and memory slots into the case. The new heatsink fan blows it all out-I think the case is even slightly pressurized!!!
Any how that dropped the cpu 40+ deg. F. Case temperature dropped about 20 deg. F.
All is cool now (in a very literal sense) , the cpu seems fully functional, but the video card just hasn't got the ooomph anymore, it seems.
Anyone got any ideas for a quality 512mb (or higher) AGP card replacement?
Regards
steamboat:'(

 

[GP_38-2]

Since it's already based on ATI it's an easy fix.
Look for an AGP HD3850:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...010380048+106792462+1069609639&name=AGP+4X/8X
Not too bad for $90~

 

[steamboateng]

HD3850 video cards

Thanks for the reply GP 38-2, and for the link. Newegg seems to have the best prices around for these cards.
I googled the 3850 chiset cards to find more info and user reviews. The Saphire and HIS cards got good marks. They seem to be the two most popular cards. It's a tossup!
The HIS 3850 with IceQ cooling got a great write-up last April. But does it justify a $90 (US) difference?
If any of you have experience with these AGP cards I would appreciate your comments.
Unfortunately I'm stuck with my computer for at least another two years, so I want to get best card available.

Regads
steamboat

 

[johnwhelan]

Thanks for the reply GP 38-2, and for the link. Newegg seems to have the best prices around for these cards.
I googled the 3850 chiset cards to find more info and user reviews. The Saphire and HIS cards got good marks. They seem to be the two most popular cards. It's a tossup!
The HIS 3850 with IceQ cooling got a great write-up last April. But does it justify a $90 (US) difference?
If any of you have experience with these AGP cards I would appreciate your comments.
Unfortunately I'm stuck with my computer for at least another two years, so I want to get best card available.

Regads
steamboat

Probably not but on the other hand your existing card the 800 may not be that much slower than a new card. The problem is keeping the card fed have a read of Tomshardware.com on this. On my machine the 3850 didn't give any more fps than my old 850 XT PE.

However the 3850 does support Dxt compression and typically has 513 mbs of memory. The new TC3 looks for the DXT but I don't know if it makes use of it. Might help to nudge your main memory up a little to 2.5 - 3 gigs.

Cheerio John

 

[steamboateng]

OK, John; you got me thinkin' again and dragging out a bundle of old computer specs, DDR specs, CPU specs, spider webs and dust bunnies!
I searched Tomshardware but couldn't find the article you reference. Does it have a name? There's pages and pages of articles on that site!
I fired-up TRS06 and went into Surveyor and Driver on my Boston route and took some notes. In both modes my CPU is maxed out everywhere on the route. The memory usage, even at the the most cluttered spot: 2 engines, engine house, engine facilities and several dozen houses and buisinesses - was only 55%. (I got a Logitech G15 keyboard that tells you those mundane things). It seems, as you suggest, the video card is not the biggest problem. Does that mean it's the CPU? (I'm getting another 'puter migrain!)
System RAM is more than adequate; 2 gigs seems to be plenty.
I am still searching for another video card, however, for three reasons: 1- 512mb of memory on the card is 2X what I got now 2- support for DirectX 10.1, Shader 4.0 and Open GL 2.0 and a host of other improvements 3- I am running a new HP 24" monitor at 1600 x 1200 pixels and I think my video card got a migrain too; this monitor doesn't like the 1026x728 I used to run!
Thanks for your interest and insight. It may well be that a new video card won't improve things much, but I will get improved functionality for the monitor as well as support for the latest goodies. Please keep in touch. If I have to go the new CPU route, I'm gonna need all the help I can get!
'Scuse me for now, I gotta take a few asprin........

Regards
steamboat

 

[johnwhelan]

OK, John; you got me thinkin' again and dragging out a bundle of old computer specs, DDR specs, CPU specs, spider webs and dust bunnies!
I searched Tomshardware but couldn't find the article you reference. Does it have a name? There's pages and pages of articles on that site!
I fired-up TRS06 and went into Surveyor and Driver on my Boston route and took some notes. In both modes my CPU is maxed out everywhere on the route. The memory usage, even at the the most cluttered spot: 2 engines, engine house, engine facilities and several dozen houses and buisinesses - was only 55%. (I got a Logitech G15 keyboard that tells you those mundane things). It seems, as you suggest, the video card is not the biggest problem. Does that mean it's the CPU? (I'm getting another 'puter migrain!)
System RAM is more than adequate; 2 gigs seems to be plenty.
I am still searching for another video card, however, for three reasons: 1- 512mb of memory on the card is 2X what I got now 2- support for DirectX 10.1, Shader 4.0 and Open GL 2.0 and a host of other improvements 3- I am running a new HP 24" monitor at 1600 x 1200 pixels and I think my video card got a migrain too; this monitor doesn't like the 1026x728 I used to run!
Thanks for your interest and insight. It may well be that a new video card won't improve things much, but I will get improved functionality for the monitor as well as support for the latest goodies. Please keep in touch. If I have to go the new CPU route, I'm gonna need all the help I can get!
'Scuse me for now, I gotta take a few asprin........

Regards
steamboat

Trainz runs the cpu at 100% anyway. The 24 inch monitor is probably why you are seeing the drop. The old one had 786,432 pixels the new one has 1,920,000 pixels or 2.44 as many that means your machine has to work 2.44 times as hard to givethe same fps. Going from a monitor to LCD means a drop of say 75 mhz to 60 mhz so that helps the video card but 1600 by 1200 is very demanding to say the least. My gut feel is a decent frame rate isn't tecnically possible short of liquid nitrogen cooling for many routes for the pcs available today or if it is you're in the very high end sort of 3870 X2 video card area with a fast cpu.

1440 by 900 19 inch monitors such as the Samsung T190 from newegg for around $240 might be the best bet to improve performance its load is about 16% higher than a 1024 by 768 monitor running at 75 mhz.

Take the main memory up, you are now having to hold twice as much in memory than the old monitor did and to be honest the old configuration would give Traniz about 1.5 gigs of memory and you just can't give Trainz 3 gigs of memory but you can take it to the max at 2 gigs by going to 2.5 or 3 gigs, I'd go 3 or 4 gigs and let XP use what it can for disk caching. Switching to the 3850 may help but only may. Tomshardware have a look under graphic cards recommneded best buys for AGP go back a couple of months and I think you'll find in their benchmarks the older PCs limit the video cards.

Cheerio John

 

[steamboateng]

I'm takin' Bud 6-pack out to the pool, take a dunk and a drink, and cogitate on all this.

Later
steamboat

 

[steamboateng]

OK, I"ve cogitated.
First, let me clear up a point I where I mislead you. My Desktop is set at 1600x1200 resolution. Trainz is running at 1024x768. Sorry about that: forgot Trainz had its own settings (Senior Moment!).
I can do 4x1gb DDR2 Corsair 184 pin memory sticks for under $150.00 at newegg. Not a problem. (3 years ago a 512mb stick was over $100.00)
I was ready to jump on a HIS HD3850 512 mb IceQ AGP card for about $230.00. (My present card was over $600.00 three years ago.) However, I saw a picture of an HIS HD3570 IceQ AGP card, which is not on the market at this time. I think I will wait a bit and see what developes on that end. My AGP slot has X8 functionality (AGP3) so the motherboard can host the best AGP card available. I trust the Athalon 64 FX-55 can handle the card.
As an afterthought, perhaps I should upgrade to Winows XP 64, which was designed for newer processors.
I gave my 19" flat screen to my son.
I saved my quarters for 2 years for this 24" beauty, and
I'm NOT giving it back!!! I understand that a large screen monitor is a big drag on the video card. I can live with it.................
untill I find a better card.
As always, John, I appreciate your insights and comments. It's people like you who make these forums a dependable source of information and inspiration.

Regards,
steamboat

Regards

 

[johnwhelan]

I have an 3850 card and I like the fact I can push the aa and af up to get rid of the jaggies.

TC3 checks for DXT compression on the video card so which 3850 has so it may even be taking advantage of that. The 3850 does have a few other benefits, like 512mb of memory. My old card cost $600 a few years ago as well.

I'm not certain but running Trainz in window mode may hit the fps slightly.

So I'd up the memory, 3 gigs is fine if they sell 512mb whatevers these days and they are cheaper than the 1 gigs and go for the 3850.

Cheerio John

 

[steamboateng]

Abit AV8 motherboard dual channel architecture requires all same DDR2 and same size. Max DDR is 4gb. I got 4x512mb in there now. Gotta go with 4x1gig sticks; about $73 per pair. Hate to toss the 512 sticks, maybe I could sell 'em to a puter repair shop!
I got that 3850 card in mind, but I'll wait several weeks to see if a 3870 AGP comes to market.

Regards
steamboat

 

[johnwhelan]

Abit AV8 motherboard dual channel architecture requires all same DDR2 and same size. Max DDR is 4gb. I got 4x512mb in there now. Gotta go with 4x1gig sticks; about $73 per pair. Hate to toss the 512 sticks, maybe I could sell 'em to a puter repair shop!
I got that 3850 card in mind, but I'll wait several weeks to see if a 3870 AGP comes to market.

Regards
steamboat

Check the specs on your motherboard and dig through the reviews of it.

"Here we see the 4 DIMM slots that officially support Dual-Channel mode up to DDR400. You can install a maximum of 4GB memory. As you can see in the picture, the DIMM slots are also color coded to help you properly run your ram in dual-channel mode."

Just change two memory slots of the same colour to 1 gig ones. Dual channel means two memory slots are interwoven, you don't need the same size memory in all four slots for this to work. That will give you 3 gigs of dual channel memory, 2 gigs for trainz, and 512mb for XP and 512 mb for XP to use as disk cache.

Cheerio John

 

[steamboateng]

I will quote the Abit AV8 users manual "When installing four DIMM modules: Install DIMM modules of the same type and size for slots [DIMM1]+[DIMM2] and [DIMM3] +[DIMM4].
The empasis on and is mine.
Now, I suppose I can inerpret that as DIMM1+DIMM2 can have one size DDR and DIMM3+DIMM4 another. I remember having this conversation with Alienware tech support years ago. At that time they were quite ambiguous on the subject. I took the safe route and a quite literal view that all DDR was to be the same type and size. I suppose there may be people out there that took the other route and used different sized sticks with no problems. Dual channel DDR was still young then. Time and experience may have proven the other view just as correct. I can't find any info about the AV8 mobo regarding this issue. But I do have a full set of instruction books.
The price of DDR2 is less than half the price it was 3 years ago and I've got to open the case on a work table anyway, so I may as well go and max out the memory. I can afford the extra $73.
Do you have any view about Windows 64. My Athalon 64 FX is a 64 bit chip and a simple change of OS may improve performance. (I'm Running XP Pro-SP3 right now, don't want to get into Vista)

Regards
Steamboat