Underground portal

[switchdoc]

Hi,

have been away from trainz for personal reasons for quite some time now, and now I want to do just a small model layout piece of one or two tiles only. To keep it tidy I want to have my portals below surface, just like the hidden train storage in a common model track layout.

Problem is, that the portal I use (portal basic short, kuid 96914:2200) - like all others that I tested - just would not cooperate. One of the two vertices, the one at portal entry, stays on top of the ground all the time. If I raise the ground, this vertex arises as well. If I want to keep it on level 0, then I have to shape my terrain that the elevation is 0 at the location of this vertex. This gives an ugly hole in the ground, unfortunately - Murphy's law in action - just beneath my yard.

So my question is, where in the script, the config or in the mesh is this information stored, that this vertex is to remain on top and how can this be modified. Or is there a portal around, that would be more cooperative and stay under ground on its own free will.

I am using TC3 for the good looks of the content.

Norbert

 

[cascaderailroad]

You can add some sort of ground plane, or gravel road spline, over top of the gouge in terrain caused by sinking a portal below ground.

There are many other solutions to this.

 

[jrfolco]

I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but here is an example using a Dig Hole (kuid2:69518:1999:1), and Portal Basic (kuid:3050:22006).



The same thing, but with a tunnel portal added (kuid:73500:100166).



Or you can lower the whole portal below grade.


Joe

 

[frogpipe]

I've placed the portal so I could sink one square to bury it, then used a "dig hole" to open the ground so it didn't block the view down the track. Then I disguised this with "tunnel splines" and a matching portal.

Other then that, there should be a tag in the config that prevents Height Adjustment - Clone the asset, then change that tag.

EDIT: You beat me it Joe - and with illustrations to less!!

 

[jrfolco]

I've placed the portal so I could sink one square to bury it, then used a "dig hole" to open the ground so it didn't block the view down the track. Then I disguised this with "tunnel splines" and a matching portal.

Other then that, there should be a tag in the config that prevents Height Adjustment - Clone the asset, then change that tag.

EDIT: You beat me it Joe - and with illustrations to less!!

I know that feeling Frogpipe. You spend an hour or so creating a detailed reply, and end up scrapping it because someone beat you by 2 minutes. One other solution to the portal problem that I completely overlooked was to use the regular stone portal (kuid:-3:10192), as shown below.


Remember, the elevation of the portal is determined by the elevation of the front spline circle placement, so whether you place the front of the portal on a level plane, and build a mountain behind it or drop the elevation below grade, the front of the portal has to be installed on actual terrain.

Before the advent of Dig Holes, I used to install a regular "snap to" tunnel a short distance into a mountain, and run track under the mountain, to form a return loop. One of the drawbacks was, you couldn't cover the inner portal, and you ended up with a shaft which I covered by surrounding it with trees.

For those of you who have my Cumberland to Connellsville route, do a search for "Eckhart Switchback 1", and you'll see an example of this method. This might also be an answer to Switchdoc's problem.

Joe

 

[switchdoc]

Thanks for your support.

Following frogpipe's advice I checked the config. The only tag that concerns heights is the height-range tag. I deleted it, but this did not modify the asset's behaviour. Then I checked all the other tags listed in CCG, same result. So I will have to employ this dig-and-hide approach. But now I am satisfied that there is no better solution,or is there?

The reason I want to have the portal way under ground is the following:
My layout is to be small, just a short piece of mainline track emerging from one tunnel, passing through a small rural station just to vanish into another tunnel. I want to run long consists - and I want them to be at full speed when emerging from the tunnel and maitaining their speed until they are gone again (Just love to watch my locos passing by!). Unfortunately, when the loco hits the portal the consist drops its speed drastically, which would be visible if the end of the consist still is out in the open. So my protals have to be at least one consist-length away from the tunnel mouth.

Any other idea on how to achieve this besides putting my portal far away from the tunnel entry?

Norbert

 

[cascaderailroad]

Could you provide a screenshot, or a track diagram, in MS Paint, or some other means (ie: scan a hand drawn trackplan on paper, or take a photo of it, so we can see what you are trying to achive).

You know how a HO Model Railroad has two hidden staging yards, why not use this approach, rather than a portal ?

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/110430WestStaging.jpg
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/mpeterll/Wyefield Junction Stage Two/WFJ120401.jpg
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_003-11.jpg

 

[jrfolco]

If you want to maintain your speed when entering and exiting a tunnel, you can't use a portal. I suggest using a dig hole with regular track and a spline object double tunnel portal, and creating a loop under each mountain so that the consist continuously moves at its set speed. This would involve installing a junction just outside each tunnel for a single track main, or you could just run a double track main line.

If you click on my sig below,and go to the "My Content" page, you'll find several spline object tunnel portals that you may download from the DLS.

 

[Dap]

The mouth of the tunnel does not have to be the exit point of the portal. Lay some more underground tunnel, wrapping it around the edge of the route until you get enough length to accommodate your longest consist. You will probably have more underground track than above ground on this route, but it will do what you want it to do.

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi

Another possibility here is to use an ordinary tunnel and put a trackmark inside to be used as an un-portal. I have used this when creating sessions on built in routes to add portals where I need them.

Regards

Brian

 

[jrfolco]

The mouth of the tunnel does not have to be the exit point of the portal. Lay some more underground tunnel, wrapping it around the edge of the route until you get enough length to accommodate your longest consist. You will probably have more underground track than above ground on this route, but it will do what you want it to do.

Good idea Dap. If you install enough track between the portal and the tunnel exit, the consist will have enough time to accelerate and exit the tunnel mouth at the desired speed. Remember though, you still have to lower at least one square of the terrain to install the portal.

Joe

 

[switchdoc]

Well, days are too short, even after retirement. Especially when there is much of golden October sun outside...
Meaning: please excuse my delayed response.

@Dap/jrfolco
That's exactly what I wanted to do. But unfortunately this portal does not stay under ground completely, just the 'portal entry' vertex is floating on the top of the terrain.

@ Kennilworth
Sorry, I do not quite get your idea. Is it possible to bring a trackmark to act like a protal, that is consume or feed consists? In TC3??

@ Cascaderailroad
Yes, I thought about staging yards too. But I like to see my locos running - and I have a very large collection of European steam engines and cars. A staging yard would have to have a lot of tracks - and memory would have to hold all items at the same time, while using a portal seems more memory effective.

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See, this is a typical model railroad layout with a single track secondary line branching off the double track mainline to wind its way uphill to a small rural terminal station. Most of the consists on the mainline will pass right through the station without stopping. The back - top of this sketch - is to display the consists in a more scennic setting.

Such a small model setting of two tiles suits me better for observing my trains than a realistic layout with dozens of tiles involved. First, this would require a lot of work to build the scenery, and then I am not so fond of actually driving along a long line - in fact I find this a little bit boring.

Observe the two portals - in fact these will be four, one for consuming and one for producing consists on each end of the mainline. Long freightrains in Germany at the time of steam were about 500 meters at most, so I placed about 700 meters from tunnel mouth to portal. This seems enough to have the consists emerge at full speed - speed limit is to be decided yet, it will be somewhere in the 80 kph / 50 mph region.

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi

@ Kennilworth
Sorry, I do not quite get your idea. Is it possible to bring a trackmark to act like a protal, that is consume or feed consists? In TC3??

With the Un-portal rule any trackmark can be made to act as a portal. The maximum number of trains that can be created by all un-portals on a route is 99 but I can't imagine a situation where anyone would have so many. Un-portals can be made to consume trains as well as create them but I don't use un-portals to delete trains as I just drive them to a trackmark and use the Delete Train command instead.

Regards

Brian

 

[switchdoc]

Thanks Brian.

I could locate and download this from DLS and will give it a try tonight.

Norbert

 

[jrfolco]

Hi Norbert

Using Dap's idea, I put together a small layout that shows how to use a portal under a mountain. I put two baseboards together, and created a mountain on one side as shown below.


Here is the same view in wire frame mode showing a 100 car consist. In the foreground are the locomotives, and in the background, just beyond the caboose, is the portal. Everything is at zero elevation including the portal.


To install the portal, I lowered one square to zero elevation, added two dig holes, installed the portal, and installed the track to the tunnel portal, as shown in the two photos below. The portal is on the right side of the shaft.




You can add trees around the portal shaft to disguise it.

Hope this works for you
Joe

 

[switchdoc]

Thanks Joe for your elaborate explanation.

I just checked the un-portal rule and this is exactly what I need. I can place it on any piece of track without any vertex showing above ground - or without having to dig a hole.

Problem solved. Thanks to all for your fine support.

Norbert

 

[Dap]

Are there any know problems with the un-portal? Can they be controlled by a Portal Manager?

 

[switchdoc]

Ooops, good point. Got to check this tonight.

Norbert

 

[switchdoc]

A mighty good point indeed.

un-portal works fine, as far as I can see. Just had a consist created and a consist consumed. Okay so far.

But the problem indeed is to control the portals by an outside rule. I checked Central Portal Control (117746:1013) and Portal timetable rule (61392:2002). And in both the trackmarks utilized as portals do not show up. Sad but true.

I did not check on Quick portal manager (61392:5011) and (61392:5012) for they seem to be buildt for later versions of trainz than I prefer to use (TC 3 that is).

Well, so it seems un-portal might not be the solution after all.

But thanks for your support anyway.

 

[Dap]

You might want to check out Pguy's Quick Portal Manager v3,<kuid2:61392:5012:21> It has more options than you can imagine. You can program up to 7 days of operations. As I recall, you said you just like to watch your trains go through your station. Now you can have a different set of trains each day of the week. Set it up once and spend 7 days watching trainz.

http://trainz.guynet.org/