TS2010 Session making competition - feedback

[Dap]

James,

I think I'll go the check the variable route. I'll check the value when the session begins and then check it when the session ends and take the difference. I see no need to independantly monitor what Trainz is already monitoring. And changing the score in the HUD every time there is a cuople/uncouple would be a bit distracting.

By the way, how many couples/uncouple events are needed to achieve the various levels of Trainee, Qualified, Experienced and Senior? And what happens when Senior is achieved? Do I get a gold watch and am forced to retire?

Thanks for the help.

David

 

[JamesMoody]

I think I'll go the check the variable route. I'll check the value when the session begins and then check it when the session ends and take the difference.

Be careful with this - if we change what a switching move means in future, your session could be affected (whereas if you do the counting inside the rule it won't be). If we start counting some other action, you could find it's suddenly much harder (or impossible) to get a "good" score.

Also, think carefully about how you will detect 'beginning' and 'end', how you will use these values in the session as part of the score, and how another session creator may wish to use your rule(s).

If the rule becomes specific to the map or session and does not support re-use by another creator, this is likely to impact negatively on your submission.

I see no need to independently monitor what Trainz is already monitoring.

That's no biggie - this isn't an intensive operation, and the messages are already being sent anyway.

And changing the score in the HUD every time there is a cuople/uncouple would be a bit distracting.

It does, however, provide a level of instant gratification, which is important to a significant section of our audience.

By the way, how many couples/uncouple events are needed to achieve the various levels of Trainee, Qualified, Experienced and Senior?

10, 100, 1000, and 10000. You can see this in the config file of the "Auran Achievements" asset.

And what happens when Senior is achieved? Do I get a gold watch and am forced to retire?

Nope, you can keep working as long as you like as a Senior Hostler. We don't force-retire anyone

 

[Dap]

Be careful with this - if we change what a switching move means in future, your session could be affected (whereas if you do the counting inside the rule it won't be). If we start counting some other action, you could find it's suddenly much harder (or impossible) to get a "good" score. . . .

I'll be scoring the driver on his hostler abilities. If you make a change, it will be reflected in the rule.

Also, think carefully about how you will detect 'beginning' and 'end', how you will use these values in the session as part of the score, and how another session creator may wish to use your rule(s).

If the rule becomes specific to the map or session and does not support re-use by another creator, this is likely to impact negatively on your submission.

It will be readily available to anyone who wants to monitor hostler moves for scoring.

It does, however, provide a level of instant gratification, which is important to a significant section of our audience.

Well, I'm not into instant gratification and please don't get me started on why this is a big problem with society today . . .

If your judges are so narrow minded, so be it. My goal is to create prototype simulation of railroad operations. If you want to deviate from that goal for your railroad simulator, there is little I can do to prevent that, but in my humble opnion you are neglecting a significant part of your market to ignore the serious modeler and cater only to the gamers.

David

 

[Dap]

David,

I haven't tried this since TS2010 first came out but you should be able to use a section of spline track on the session layer to act as a connector between the portal and track on the route layer. If the track on the route layer is straight then make a short piece of spline track on the session layer that is in alignment with the track on the route layer. Then add the portal to the new spline track. It can be done but it is tricky.

James, the layer locking only prevents the user from moving something with the mouse by grabbing it. It doesn't prevent movement from say adding a a piece of spline track that changes the curvature of a section of spline track on the route layer. In other words, it locks the locations of the spline points but not the curve in between the points. Surveyor sees the change in the curve as a change to the route.

William

William,

Sadly, I can not even lay a section of unconnected track in the session layer without Trainz wanting to save the route as a new route. So, no track additions and no portal additions to built-in routes for the session building contest.

David

 

[JamesMoody]

I'll be scoring the driver on his hostler abilities. If you make a change, it will be reflected in the rule.

It will be readily available to anyone who wants to monitor hostler moves for scoring.

Sounds like you've thought this through - I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Well, I'm not into instant gratification and please don't get me started on why this is a big problem with society today...

If you make it as a rule that will call subrules when something happens, you don't have to put the current number of movements into the HUD, and give this information - but if a session creator wants to, then they can. The key element here is the flexibility of this approach.

If your judges are so narrow minded, so be it.

Much like the Trainz community, there are hardcore railfans, keen gamers, and casual users on the judging panel. Even the hardcore railfans on the judging panel understand that most of our customers fall into the 'casual' bracket though, and that a session that appeals to hardcore railfans, but is inaccessible to the casual player will exclude the vast majority of customers.

The key question here will be why did I get that score and what can I do about improving it. If a user typical of the 'wider audience' can answer those two questions from your session, then you've done a good job. If they can't, then there is a problem with your session.

 

[hert]

I wish you guys would have stated in the rules more of what your looking for. You dont say anything about how HTML pages should look like. Now I hear you only want text with helper images. Ugh what a let down now I have to redo all the html pages I did. What else is wrong with my HTML page? (Pic included below)


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

hert:wave:

 

[misterchugg]

hi all
i for one will never look at or need a "score"

i did not buy this to be scored like a schoolkid

its a simulator, nothing else

i should therefore be able and allowed to turn the scoring off, as it will only distract me

ron

 

[Dean_Forest]

Then all that you need to do is to press one of the function keys (F6 or something like that) which will turn off the custom HUD

 

[winjmoore]

hert:wave:

That looked fine to me - even very professional. I'd say it's your session and make it how you like

 

[WindWalkr]

I wish you guys would have stated in the rules more of what your looking for. You dont say anything about how HTML pages should look like.

This kind of thing isn't grounds for disqualification, and we didn't want to make 10 pages of rules that everybody had to read through. If we find something like this that we don't think is up to standard, in an otherwise good session, we will simply contact the session creator after the session is short-listed and ask for specific improvements.

kind regards,

chris

 

[WindWalkr]

i did not buy this to be scored like a schoolkid

its a simulator, nothing else

Even real life has various types of scoring, as I've detailed above. If you want a good simulator, you'll need scoring.

I think some people here are fixating on the word "scoring" as meaning that we want some kind of arcade game where everything is boiled down to a single magic number. That's not the point at all.

kind regards,

chris

 

[Neuraldancer]

Even real life has various types of scoring, as I've detailed above. If you want a good simulator, you'll need scoring.

I think some people here are fixating on the word "scoring" as meaning that we want some kind of arcade game where everything is boiled down to a single magic number. That's not the point at all.

kind regards,

chris

But without the scoring part in the session you will be disqualified. Try to get it through yout thick skin that apparently "most" people have a problem with this specific part of the contest. Perhaps you are content with having, again, only two or three "faulty" submissions, or you could try to listen for a change. Make your pick.

 

[WindWalkr]

But without the scoring part in the session you will be disqualified. Try to get it through yout thick skin that apparently "most" people have a problem with this specific part of the contest. Perhaps you are content with having, again, only two or three "faulty" submissions, or you could try to listen for a change. Make your pick.

We would prefer "two or three faulty submissions" to one hundred submissions which don't meet the goals of the competition. We're not running a lottery here, we're detailing something that we'd like to see made and offering prizes for the best attempts.

chris

 

[Neuraldancer]

We would prefer "two or three faulty submissions" to one hundred submissions which don't meet the goals of the competition. We're not running a lottery here, we're detailing something that we'd like to see made and offering prizes for the best attempts.

chris

All I can say then is Have Fun! :wave:

 

[wreeder]

William,

Sadly, I can not even lay a section of unconnected track in the session layer without Trainz wanting to save the route as a new route. So, no track additions and no portal additions to built-in routes for the session building contest.

David

I'll check it again to make sure a bug didn't slip in during the service packs. But I will admit it is very difficult to do on an existing route due to the fact I pointed out to James. Locking the route layer only prevents the user from using the mouse to change the route layer. Adding items to the session layer can effect the route layer through unintended interaction.

William

 

[JamesMoody]

But without the scoring part in the session you will be disqualified. Try to get it through yout thick skin that apparently "most" people have a problem with this specific part of the contest.

If you wish to make your session have a number of detected failure cases (each an instant dismissal for breaking railroad rule X), and then a "success" case (you have completed the assignment) - that would be a valid choice. It's not the most inventive, and it doesn't have the most re-play value, but it is a fitting choice for a number of circumstances.

If you choose to go this route, you must detect the failure cases and the success case in the session rules, and make the session react to them accordingly. If you don't do this, the session will be judged "not substantially complete", because this part would need to be added, and this part is the majority of the work involved in creating a session.

 

[Dap]

. . . and this part is the majority of the work involved in creating a session. . . .

Heaven help us. If this statement is true, then you are going to have some pretty boring and mundane sessions. A truly creative and interesting session envolves so much more than scoring. And if you are thinking that the scoring will involve the majority of the work in creating the session, it can't be much of a session.

If you want scoring, why not give us some standard scoring rules so we can spend our time making some real kick-butt session action. And give us some routes that are defect free to work with.

 

[Neuraldancer]

If you wish to make your session have a number of detected failure cases (each an instant dismissal for breaking railroad rule X), and then a "success" case (you have completed the assignment) - that would be a valid choice. It's not the most inventive, and it doesn't have the most re-play value, but it is a fitting choice for a number of circumstances.

If you choose to go this route, you must detect the failure cases and the success case in the session rules, and make the session react to them accordingly. If you don't do this, the session will be judged "not substantially complete", because this part would need to be added, and this part is the majority of the work involved in creating a session.

As said before: have fun with it! It's not my cup-a-tea.

 

[wreeder]

David,

I think James is saying "if you choose to go this route" to mean if the creator chooses to create this type of session then the testing for failure or success is a majority of the work. To me that implies that there are many more complex ways to create a session and that more points will be given for those ways but the bare minimum is simple testing. I agree very boring but there has to be some minimum level for what is acceptable.

William

 

[JamesMoody]

I think James is saying "if you choose to go this route" to mean if the creator chooses to create this type of session then the testing for failure or success is a majority of the work. To me that implies that there are many more complex ways to create a session and that more points will be given for those ways but the bare minimum is simple testing.

Exactly . The key point here is that it is the checking up on what the player is doing that is important. Exactly what you check and how you use the information is up to you as the session creator.

I agree very boring but there has to be some minimum level for what is acceptable.

Some people just want to drive. Give them a train and a timetable, and they are happy. For them the session doesn't need to do anything smart - just check they get to the right place at the right time, without doing anything too obviously wrong along the way.

A session that is ideal to this type of person will be boring to someone who likes a good switching puzzle to solve, and vice-versa.

As to a minimum level - yes, there is a minimum level. A session is below minimum level when it doesn't bother to set a task, or doesn't bother to check up to ensure that the set task is done. This isn't a matter of personal preference or style - if you don't check up to see that the task is done, you haven't actually created a session. All you've done is written the spec for what the session should do. The actual work of making the session is yet to be done.