TS2010 DISTROYED MY ROUTES !!

[mrscsi]

I wish I read this before submitting

That's okay, I can understand his frustration, I can understand most people's frustrations who were hard-core route builders and who were set in their ways and then exposed themselves to 2010 and found out most of the stuff was going to look different or some of it didn't work at all...

I had taken about two years off when I couldn't get 2009 to even start up reliably on my core i7 when I meandered back in here and saw 2010 I bought it and have really been happy ever since.

It runs more stable, they have made some enhancements to the 3-D engine, they've made enhancements to surveyor, they've made some pretty radical changes.

So instead of trying to load up my older content, I decided to go ahead and start fresh using just 2010 and I haven't had an issue. Now I have like everyone else found content on the DLS that wouldn't work, that I couldn't fix, that nothing within my power could get to work, but I didn't throw up my hands and cry and come out on the forum and complain about it.

I read the forums tried to find out if there was something I wasn't doing right, if that failed and there was really no other option, I forgot about that particular content and moved on...

So far I've not regretted that course of action...

 

[Mordin]

That's okay, I can understand his frustration, I can understand most people's frustrations who were hard-core route builders and who were set in their ways and then exposed themselves to 2010 and found out most of the stuff was going to look different or some of it didn't work at all...

I had taken about two years off when I couldn't get 2009 to even start up reliably on my core i7 when I meandered back in here and saw 2010 I bought it and have really been happy ever since.

It runs more stable, they have made some enhancements to the 3-D engine, they've made enhancements to surveyor, they've made some pretty radical changes.

So instead of trying to load up my older content, I decided to go ahead and start fresh using just 2010 and I haven't had an issue. Now I have like everyone else found content on the DLS that wouldn't work, that I couldn't fix, that nothing within my power could get to work, but I didn't throw up my hands and cry and come out on the forum and complain about it.

I read the forums tried to find out if there was something I wasn't doing right, if that failed and there was really no other option, I forgot about that particular content and moved on...

So far I've not regretted that course of action...

Okay I enjoy Trainz 2010 I guess that's what realy matters I guess I would be unhappy too if my routes were messed up.:wave: BTW you type fast.

 

[mrscsi]

I wish I read this before submitting
I mean this is what I was lead to believe. Now is 2010 good or not?

I've been using trainz since 2004, I beta tested TC3, I've created routes for older versions. I frankly believe that trainz 2010 is the best version that's been released so far.

It runs more stable, I can do more, a lot of things in surveyor are easier to do, the 3-D engine is better, it's more performance oriented than all the other previous versions.

Where a lot of people are complaining is because of older assets. People have built amazing routes, loaded them up with older assets import them into 2010 and then complain that they don't run right.

I quickly realized that after downloading one of my routes from the DLS and seeing all the faulty content they contained. At that point I could've got discouraged but I just decided to start building new routes using newer versions or fixed assets. Now I don't ever intend to put any of my routes up on the DLS anymore. Mainly because when I build a route and take the time to put everything I want in it, there's a lot of payware and I don't want to have to take time to try to swap all of it out and make sure it all works etc. just to put it on the DLS.

But that's what I think has most people a little perturbed, is a lot of their older content that they love to use just doesn't work right in the upgraded 3-D engine...

 

[mrscsi]

Okay I enjoy Trainz 2010 I guess that's what realy matters I guess I would be unhappy too if my routes were messed up.:wave: BTW you type fast.

I cheat, I use speech recognition:hehe:

 

[edion2]

mrsci,

I beg to differ. The thread name IS accurate. Bringing my routes into 2010 DID DESTROY THE ENTIRE LOOK of my routes.

The stupid trees killed the looks, AND THE FUNCTIONALITY WAS KILLED BY THE LACK OF 90% OF JUNCTIONS !!

There is a MAJOR PROBLEM with TS2010. Look at my pictures . . .

TS2010 is good for routes built in TS2010. If you have routes built with 2009 or earlier, its a crap shoot if you are going to have my problems or not. The important thing is, people should be made aware of its affect on imported legacy routes.

IMHO . . . If you are a serious route builder from 2009 or earlier, make sure you DO NOT install as an ADD-ON to your current install. By all means . . . give 2010 a try but you should be aware of possible serious issues.

I did not use TransDem. Its a fictional route. Everything was hand sculpted. I was modeling an environment I'm most familiar with. I DO NOT WANT SEASONAL CHANGES !!! I want TOTAL and COMPLETE control over my routes. I want the trees, objects, textures etc. that I PICKED . . . NOT SOMEONE ELSE'S IDEA OF WHAT I SHOULD HAVE ON MY ROUTES !!

This is Dictatorship and Communism via software to shove the software creator's ideas down someone else's throat !! Look how well Dictatorship and Communism worked out for those guys.

I agree with one thing . . . TS2010 is what it is. That is why its going to stay dormant for me until they can fix these major problems.

Ed

 

[sawyer811]

Don't even get me started...

Fortunately...I didn't have as much trouble as you ewhen i imported my own routes into TS2010 (none of the three or four i saved were that far along, and therefore had no trees) but i've had an escapade of my own. I've got a problem called "sharding" which is where prisms of color/polygons come flying out of everywhere and everything, mostly in populated areas. It's been a frustrating three months to learn it was actually my Video card that was causing it. still, the tree thing is completely aned utterly frustrating, as routes i used to love now look nothing the same. Whoever came up with the idea of SpeedTrees should be shipped out into the middle of nowhere on a manifest freight. Just be glad you weren't fond of using MP-track wood. it replaces it with the most ulgy track i've ever seen, called "Auran Track TS2009 Jarrah" or something to that affect. Thankfully I'd started using Philskene's V2 of the track in TS2009, so that didn't happen to me. Maybe i'm luckier than i think i am in this mess.

anyway, I'd go back to using TS2009, as the game gave me no problems whatsoever and was a joy to operate, but unfortunately I've worked on all my routes and they've all got 3.3 build numbers now. And I wouldn't think it's that easy to backdate, right...?

anyway, enough hijacking, I'm truly sorry you lost all that work. If you want to get the switches to work, i'd go to the main menu in surveyor and click "delete Missing assets" because the reason there's only two red arrows is because even though the switches aren't plyshically there, the route's config file still shows that they are, so in essence you're trying to lay the new switch over the old one. That unfortunately doesn't fix the naming problem. again sorry to hear about your headache. i'm not as heavy into route creating as you but i feel your pain.

 

[mrscsi]

mrsci,

I beg to differ. The thread name IS accurate. Bringing my routes into 2010 DID DESTROY THE ENTIRE LOOK of my routes.

If it so accurate why didn't you include the words "the entire look of" in the title?

The stupid trees killed the looks, AND THE FUNCTIONALITY WAS KILLED BY THE LACK OF 90% OF JUNCTIONS !!

There is a MAJOR PROBLEM with TS2010. Look at my pictures . . .

I did look, and what I saw was a route built with an earlier version of trainz using assets that only you really know what they are, imported into Trainz 2010 where assets were replaced or faulty. That's really all I saw.

TS2010 is good for routes built in TS2010. If you have routes built with 2009 or earlier, its a crap shoot if you are going to have my problems or not. The important thing is, people should be made aware of its affect on imported legacy routes.

People have been aware it, they don't need of bold headline that is rather misleading that states "TS 2010 DESTROYED MY ROUTES!!" When it didn't destroy the route, there were merely issues with importation...

IMHO . . . If you are a serious route builder from 2009 or earlier, make sure you DO NOT install as an ADD-ON to your current install. By all means . . . give 2010 a try but you should be aware of possible serious issues.

And people are aware, this is been bandied about in the forums for months...

I did not use TransDem. Its a fictional route. Everything was hand sculpted. I was modeling an environment I'm most familiar with. I DO NOT WANT SEASONAL CHANGES !!! I want TOTAL and COMPLETE control over my routes. I want the trees, objects, textures etc. that I PICKED . . . NOT SOMEONE ELSE'S IDEA OF WHAT I SHOULD HAVE ON MY ROUTES !!

Which begs my original question to you, if you just selected USA how is the program supposed to know that you're in Southern California? With TransDem the coordinates of your world are recorded so that trainz actually does know where you're at and it adjusts seasons accordingly. A very nice FEATURE by the way and one people have been wanting for years...

This is Dictatorship and Communism via software to shove the software creator's ideas down someone else's throat !! Look how well Dictatorship and Communism worked out for those guys.

From someone born in California and who left to someone who's still living there I would be tempted to ask that you should be used to living under dictatorship and Communism...:hehe:

I agree with one thing . . . TS2010 is what it is. That is why its going to stay dormant for me until they can fix these major problems.

Ed

It is what it is, just as 2009, all the TC's, 2006, 2004 and UTC all were what they were... again your calling differences between versions "major problems" and I really don't think you understand that Trainz 2010 without what you call "major problems" would simply be Trainz 2009...

Everybody's wanted enhancements and various changes, they have for years I know because I've been here quite some time and have seen it. Then when they get those changes everybody tends to get upset. I for one welcome the changes, it's made creating routes easier, performance wise it beats 2009 (which I still have by the way) by a long shot. And above all else, the difference between 2009 and 2010 for me was in the very early days of 2009 (pre-patching) it was a crap shoot whether or not it would even run without doing a database repair. There's never been any issues like that with 2010.

So my advice to you, if you don't like 2010... use 2009 and be happy...

 

[Gandalf0444]

mrsci,

I beg to differ. The thread name IS accurate. Bringing my routes into 2010 DID DESTROY THE ENTIRE LOOK of my routes.

The stupid trees killed the looks, AND THE FUNCTIONALITY WAS KILLED BY THE LACK OF 90% OF JUNCTIONS !!

There is a MAJOR PROBLEM with TS2010. Look at my pictures . . .

TS2010 is good for routes built in TS2010. If you have routes built with 2009 or earlier, its a crap shoot if you are going to have my problems or not. The important thing is, people should be made aware of its affect on imported legacy routes.

IMHO . . . If you are a serious route builder from 2009 or earlier, make sure you DO NOT install as an ADD-ON to your current install. By all means . . . give 2010 a try but you should be aware of possible serious issues.

I did not use TransDem. Its a fictional route. Everything was hand sculpted. I was modeling an environment I'm most familiar with. I DO NOT WANT SEASONAL CHANGES !!! I want TOTAL and COMPLETE control over my routes. I want the trees, objects, textures etc. that I PICKED . . . NOT SOMEONE ELSE'S IDEA OF WHAT I SHOULD HAVE ON MY ROUTES !!

This is Dictatorship and Communism via software to shove the software creator's ideas down someone else's throat !! Look how well Dictatorship and Communism worked out for those guys.

I agree with one thing . . . TS2010 is what it is. That is why its going to stay dormant for me until they can fix these major problems.

Ed

Sorry I have successfully brought all the routes I have made to ts2010 from TRS2006 and TC1+2 just fine. So it is obviously not TS2010.

 

[rgcx]

Just use the fix junction layer or the restore my treez option. Just wait for 2012 and watch what it will do.

rgcx
-All my assets are faulty/broken and I don't give a dam.

 

[JimDep]

mrsci,

Bringing my routes into 2010 DID DESTROY THE ENTIRE LOOK of my routes.

This is Dictatorship and Communism via software to shove the software creator's ideas down someone else's throat !! Look how well Dictatorship and Communism worked out for those guys.

Not to mention looking like the before and after pictures of "no man's land" along the Western Front in Belgium around 1914.

That was a nice looking route before it got destroyed by artillery fire.

(Hey pop the corks! I've reached the 1,150 post milestone of high quality comments like this one!! )

 

[edion2]

Hello everyone,

I’ve been doing some experimenting. I’ve narrowed the list of trees that were replaced by 2010 down to 9 individual trees that represents 99% of the trees that were replaced by TS2010. Back in 2007 when I was introduced to Trainz and this forum, the general consensus was that if I wanted to place a large number of trees, I need to keep the number of “varieties” of tree assets as low as possible. Therefore, just 9 varieties of trees represents 99% of 100,000 (guess-timate) trees on my route.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY . . . .

The legacy trees on the route now shows up as obsolete . . . which means you can not place them on the route anymore . . . it does not show up as a selection in 2010. I thought . . . I’ll try the “replace asset” feature . . . that should work. So I went back to 2009 and cloned my trees with a new name and Kuid so they are no longer a “buit-in”. I then CDP’d them into 2010 so they will show up in the pick list to use in the “asset to replace” box in 2010.

The replace asset feature in 2010 DOES NOT WORK on trees that were IMPORTED WITH THE ROUTE from 2009. One of the replaced tree is called “Tree Elm 01". Using the “replace asset” feature did nothing. The feature is working. If I place a NEW “elm 01" on the route and use the replace feature to replace it with one that I cloned in 2009, IT WORKS. But it will not change the others that was imported WITH the route.

Strangely, if I MOVE a tree that was imported with the route, the replace feature works on the tree I just moved. I tried COPYING a section and PASTING them back . . . No, the replace feature does not work on imported trees that were copied and pasted, even when they were pasted into a new location.

IF I could go back to 2009 and replace the “built-ins” with the my newly cloned copies, then everything will be fine because, when its imported into 2010, I won’t have any “built-ins” on my route . . . BUT THERE IS A PROBLEM. One of the feature that still needs a FIX in 2009 is the “replace asset feature”. As many fo us are aware, when we replace an asset in 2009, and if the asset BEING REPLACED has an elevation height OTHER THAN the surface of the location, the new asset will IGNORE the OLD HEIGHT and only come in at the SURFACE HEIGHT. I know I reported this problem more than a year ago while Beta Testing. On my route, 95% of my trees are placed with the elevations that are LOWER than the surface elevation. That means, replacing my “built-in” trees will also radically alter the LOOKS of my routes. Most of my trees are at least 50% to 75% buried into the ground.

So, for now . . . I’m stuck . . . I don’t know what I can try next.

ON THE BRIGHT SIDE . . . I WAS ABLE TO FIX THE JUNCTIONS !! I made a CDP file of the missing junctions, 6 of the CNR junction variety, and imported them into 2010. That worked. All the junction showed up with all of their names in tact.

If they ever get around to fixing the “replace feature” in 2009 or 2010, I might be able to move up to 2010. I’m guessing that most of the efforts are on TS2010, which means any needed fixes for 2009 is unlikely. I’m hoping that they can fix the “replace feature” in 2010. If we can use the “replace asset” feature ON THE IMPORTED TREES that were AUTOMATICALLY REPLACED, it will certainly turn a large number of HARD CORE ROUTE BUILDERS into TS2010 supporters. There are a lot of people importing routes from 2009. Some, maybe most, don’t have any issues. On the other hand, some routes, like mine, are severely altered.

I know I’m in the minority, so I would expect to be ignored. In my case, I’m sure I’ve spent well over 1500 hours on my 3 route series over the last 4 years. I find it very difficult to abandon all my work just because a new version does not support my work.

A route is never finished. It just goes through phases . . . And there is ALWAYS the next phase. I’m sure there are many of you that have been working on a route a lot longer than I have.

Thanks
Ed

 

[aardvark1]

Why not just build routes without trees?

Have fun,

 

[JCitron]

Ed,

I'm glad you are able to resolve most of the problem with the route import into 2010. That heart felt schlump when things go awry is really a shock.

I too noticed that issue with the replacing assets. In my case it was a road spline. It looks like the old gray Road USA or Road 1, but I cannot select it to get information on it to find out what it is.

One of the issues you maybe running into with the speed treez is there are now groups of trees that are hidden from selection in Surveyor. To replace the groups, you need to enable them to be selectable in CMP. This involves editing the config files of the built-in content, and adding in the following line in the config files of each SpeedTreeGroup.

In CM, do a search for SpeedTreeGroup:

Edit each asset found in Explorer.

Add this to the config file:

privileges
{
permit-listing 1
}

Save, close Windows Explorer window, Commit
You'll need to confirm that you intend on saving the config on a built-in asset when you commit the asset.

John

 

[higgikay]

I don't really know if what I experienced might fall into the same category. I have two 2010 versions installed on my computer. One is the new multiplayer the other the normal 44088 version. What happened was, that I imported a DEM map and started to build a route. Then I came to the conclusion, to save that started route to CDP and import it into the other version. And after I installed it, a whole bunch of of assets where just vanished from the map. For example the switch levers too. This seemed to be weird, so I installed and reinstalled it in all kinds of different ways, always with the same result. Then, totally frustrated, I started to look around on the map and oh wonder I found something in an area that should become an ocean. I scrolled to that point and was surprised to find at least 60% of the missing assets at that one point.
Okay long story short. After all that trying I have the suspicion that there is an issue with CMP 3.3 version when it comes to saving a route to CDP with misplacement of assets. Maybe this is related somehow to what is described here. At least I was lucky enough that there were only a few hours of work gone down the river (into the ocean). It's still frustrating though
Cheers Kay

 

[mrscsi]

I don't really know if what I experienced might fall into the same category. I have two 2010 versions installed on my computer. One is the new multiplayer the other the normal 44088 version. What happened was, that I imported a DEM map and started to build a route. Then I came to the conclusion, to save that started route to CDP and import it into the other version. And after I installed it, a whole bunch of of assets where just vanished from the map. For example the switch levers too. This seemed to be weird, so I installed and reinstalled it in all kinds of different ways, always with the same result. Then, totally frustrated, I started to look around on the map and oh wonder I found something in an area that should become an ocean. I scrolled to that point and was surprised to find at least 60% of the missing assets at that one point.
Okay long story short. After all that trying I have the suspicion that there is an issue with CMP 3.3 version when it comes to saving a route to CDP with misplacement of assets. Maybe this is related somehow to what is described here. At least I was lucky enough that there were only a few hours of work gone down the river (into the ocean). It's still frustrating though
Cheers Kay

I've seen what you're describing when importing DEM's, if you're using TransDem it creates route layers and what I have learned to do, is for example put all the track on the TransDem-vector layer and then of course I create a layer for trees and vegetation (under the route layer) and put all trees and vegetation with that layer selected etc. the only thing I put on the session layer would be trains and rolling stock.

Because it appears that Trainz 2010 tends to save stuff and keep it intact if it's under the route layer, and all the session layer stuff is saved in the file in CMP that's usually the same name as the route but it has a symbol "1234" next to it.

When saving your route out to CDP files make sure you get both session and Route saved and I haven't run into many issues if I keep everything separate as stated above.

 

[higgikay]

Yes mrscsi, TransDem has these different layers, I guess I forgot to mention, that on that route I merged all the layers so that it only has the "route layer". Because of this I'm quite sure that this is not only a layer problem. It is really that I experienced this the first time, since I patched to CMP 3.3.
Belonging to what you've said about saving route and session and then importing both, I haven't done so far, because I was by far not advanced enough that I thought it would be important, but I will sure look at that. It just pops up an other annoying thing in my head I've experienced. When I save the route at some point and I want to save route and session and overwrite both, it seemed to be that TS2010 always creates a new session anyway. So I typically only save the route in that early stage of construction.

 

[edion2]

JCitron,

Thanks for your suggestion.

I went into 2010 CMP and edited all the "speed tree groups" but that didn't change anything. Thanks for trying.

Does anyone know how to change an asset flagged as "Obsolete" back to being viable again ??

I'm thinking that if I disable all the speed trees and its library AND if I can get the "Obsolete" assets back alive . . . Maybe my routes can be imported without having the trees replaced with Junk Trees . . . speedy or not??

Thanks
Ed

 

[edion2]

2012 . . . Tree replacement ??

Hello,

Now with the release of 2012, I feel like I'm stuck in the dark ages still running 2009.

Has anyone tried importing older routes from 2009 ??

Did you notice any of the older "built-in" trees being automatically replaced ??

I would dearly love to upgrade to 2012 but if it also destroys the look of my routes . . . then I'm sunk :'''(

I've been building my series of routes for 4 years. I just can not abandon it.

The legacy "built in" trees are the "poplar" trees in different sizes. If anyone out there has 2009 and just purchased 2012, can you place some of these trees in 2009 on a single baseboard and import it into 2012 ?

Please let us know if 2012 automatically replaces these trees. I would appreciate that very much.

Thanks
Ed

 

[paul502]

One thing that worked for me on imported & built in routes was to add some trees & save under a new name. once i reopened route, the replace tool worked for all trees (after altering the privileges). I don't know if it works for TS09, i used the layers function in TS2010 to do this, worth a try !

 

[clam1952]

Safest way would be to clone the trees and replace the originals in 2009 with the clones, then they won't get replaced. Don't forget though that there is no compatibility mode in TS12 so they may not look very good anyway.