Trainz vs. MSTS. Which is better?

TRAINZ.

Trainz's good sides
  • working couplings
  • freeware content
  • route details (I've only compared marias pass (06 )and The S&C route (TC3) the routes which MSTS's had weren't detailed enough.
  • route building,
  • content building
  • handling train derailments
  • off-map staging area (or more commonly known as the portal (or on the DLS unportal)).
Msts's good sides:
  • more complete routes.
  • locomotives looked nice inside and out.
  • making train derailments (as in a train comes off and doesn't jump around all the time (although they do fly into space as if there was hardly no gravity being applied to them)) or when a two trains collide they don't join together. They just fly through each other.
  • The camera follows the train's position from where the train derailed from.
But on the whole I think that I would like to go with the title of this post.:D
 
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You guys are talking out of your backsides about Rail Simulator, and you obviously haven't tried it out properly.

I bought the sim the first weekend it was released and tried it and I thought it was complete garbage.

Please tell me. What have they got wrong? The sounds are great, as are the graphics and engine physics.

First, They dont have the projected light for the US locomotives. Would you buy a car that didnt have the lights that projected on the streets at night?

Overpriced? Did I hear that correctly? I got my copy for a tenner.

Im guessing you got the sim about a month after the release of the sim as the price dropped from $40 to $10 after 4 weeks of being released in the United States. If you want the missing route from the other version, It is something like $20 and with the IOW route being at $40 and freeware route builders being able to use those objects on their freeware routes. You could end up buying both of those routes if you want to be able to run ALL the freeware routes that become available for KRS.

I have realised that it is a fantasic program, and the negativity shown towards it is just silly and defensive.

Im guessing that you like games/sims that arent complete before they are released. Also, They are more concerned about releasing a payware route than fixing up the sim itself.
 
Please tell me. What have they got wrong? The sounds are great, as are the graphics and engine physics.

[SNIP]

And by the way, if KRS is unprototypical, then what does that say about Trainz?

Best wishes,
Padster

The sounds in KRS are awful. None of the diesels sound much like their respective prototypes and there is no attempt to distinguish between the sounds heard outside the train or on the inside. KRS track sound is a disembodied tinkle - contrast with the full bodied "crunch" as you go through a set of points in TC3.

The graphics in KRS are not that much improved over MSTS and TRS. Certainly nothing like the early "photo-realistic" mock up shots they were still showing on their website up to release. A few trees with leaves on them do not make a better train sim and TRS can do that anyway, with the many excellent and detailed trees, grasses and shrubs now available. The game engine appears to have been cloned from MSTS, if the frequent pause and stutter for loading are anything to go by.

KRS physics are not too bad, but when you hit a train coupling up at 6 MPH the wagons and coaches should not fly up in the air. However their answer to a rather poor implementation of dynamic cab and suspension movement was to simply remove it in SP1, rather than fix it.

KRS signalling and AI despatching is a mess though maybe an outside chance it's about to be sorted in SP2. Yes, TRS desperately needs an AI signaller and the ability to run timetabled scenarios but at least for now you can intervene and get things moving. Prior to release, EA/Kuju were advertising RS as a simulation of such high standard the real railway companies might want to use it, then one of the first activities people tried had trains running red signals outside Paddington and emulating a very real serious rail accident that happened a few years ago.

No mass market train simulation is going to be 100% prototypical and is a compromise between reality and fun - just as landing a 747 in Flight Sim does not exactly mean you would be qualified to fly the real thing when the pilot is taken ill.

Didn't want to turn this into an anti-RS rant (again) but it is lacking as a serious simulation despite the NuLabor style spin being applied on other forums for fear of upsetting the devs (hush, they might not post again...). Tragic.
 
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Wake up and smell the coffee, Eaglefan. All developers appear to be going down the track (pardon the pun) of eschewing paid beta testers in favour of letting Joe Public do the dirty work.

I for one think KRS is great, as I do TRS2004. Perhaps one thing I can agree on is the comments about World Editor. It can be very hard to get used to at first, and moving about in the editor is extremely tedious and not as straightforward as with Trainz.

KRS is a simulation of high standard, IMHO. I have had my say on the subject and will now shut up.

Best wishes,
Padster
 
KRS is a simulation of high standard, IMHO. I have had my say on the subject and will now shut up.

Best wishes,
Padster

Hi, In my opinion KRS is just a arcade game and not a sim. The physics and signaling, and sessions is the worst i ever saw in a trainsim.

greetz:wave:
 
Wake up and smell the coffee, Eaglefan. All developers appear to be going down the track (pardon the pun) of eschewing paid beta testers in favour of letting Joe Public do the dirty work.

It's one thing to say the sim/game is beta tested and another when it wasnt beta tested and this was not beta tested in my opinion as there was just too many simple bugs that should have never been in the release.

KRS is a simulation of high standard.

If you think KRS is a simulation of high standard. Well, That is your opinion and everyone has their opinion. We might not agree with anybody elses opinion, But that is how things are in life.
 
TC3 is struggling performance wise in places with the default textures etc. used, so JVC style grass would probably have brought it to its knees!

And why should that be? KRS has 3D trees and foliage, i dont think that some grass should kill FPS, a prime example of why the whole graphics engine needs a complete replacement.

The sounds in KRS are awful. None of the diesels sound much like their respective prototypes and there is no attempt to distinguish between the sounds heard outside the train or on the inside. KRS track sound is a disembodied tinkle - contrast with the full bodied "crunch" as you go through a set of points in TC3.

This is true, with the exception of the Deltic and somewhat of the 166, the default sounds were a joke, thankfully thats what third party creators are for. ;)
CHeck out these new Valenta HST sounds if you dont believe me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HUR4ZsabyI

Track sounds can also be customized and you can have different track sounds on different sections of track.

The graphics in KRS are not that much improved over MSTS and TRS. Certainly nothing like the early "photo-realistic" mock up shots they were still showing on their website up to release. A few trees with leaves on them do not make a better train sim and TRS can do that anyway, with the many excellent and detailed trees, grasses and shrubs now available. The game engine appears to have been cloned from MSTS, if the frequent pause and stutter for loading are anything to go by.

Do MSTS and TRS have shaders? nope. Dynamic weather? MSTS, no, TRS, somewhat. Does the water in either of them reflect objects? no
The game engine obviously has some similaritys to MSTS as it was made by the same developer, kinda like how all the TRS series have used the same Jet engine since Trainz 1.3 :o

You contradict yourself when you mention grass and foliage, if using all that detailed grass would bring TRS to its knees, then whats the use of having it other than to make pretty screenshots, (which is all i ussualy ended up doing..)


KRS physics are not too bad, but when you hit a train coupling up at 6 MPH the wagons and coaches should not fly up in the air. However their answer to a rather poor implementation of dynamic cab and suspension movement was to simply remove it in SP1, rather than fix it.

At 6 MPH i will assure you the wagons dont fly up into the air, actually when you make a coupling aroun 5- 10 MPH the wagons wildly sway to the side but stay on the rails, it seems quite realistic to me. If you go over 15, thats ussualy where things start to get ugly, unlike in TRS where you can couple at 60 MPH and everything is fine and dandy.


KRS signalling and AI despatching is a mess though maybe an outside chance it's about to be sorted in SP2. Yes, TRS desperately needs an AI signaller and the ability to run timetabled scenarios but at least for now you can intervene and get things moving. Prior to release, EA/Kuju were advertising RS as a simulation of such high standard the real railway companies might want to use it, then one of the first activities people tried had trains running red signals outside Paddington and emulating a very real serious rail accident that happened a few years ago.

What can i say the RS signaling and scneario system is a mess, i havnt had too much luck with it, my main issue when creating a scneario is it is impossible to change the automatic switches manually. I never had much luck in TRS either, in the one scenario i made my AI switcher kept on derailing for no apparent reason when i told it to go pick up a boxcar, i will still admit though the TRS scenario editor is better.


Didn't want to turn this into an anti-RS rant (again) but it is lacking as a serious simulation despite the NuLabor style spin being applied on other forums for fear of upsetting the devs (hush, they might not post again...). Tragic.

Really ive heard enough of this UKTS fanboy talk, do you really think this forum is any better that you guys are nothing but TRS fanboys yourself especially when you get post like:
TTTTTTTTTTTRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!! :D

But instead everyone at UKTS gets dubbed as a "Fanboy" because they are actually trying to create content and improve the sim instead of sitting around and bitching and moaning about all the problems?
 
Hare's what i see playing TRS & MSTS

First MSTS is poor in routes there in only so mush you can add for you get errors I haver push the Sim into over drive trying to make my routes look real. and too much on a route will not load or crash wend you run a route. If i can make the route as good in MSTS like i do in TRS I would be flying.
At the same time the files are easer to work on and upload so it seems.

2nd TRS makes grate for routes the loco repainting in TRS in Slow and take more time to do some times but still the jods look good.TRS Uses More power and ram on a Older PS is slower and can be hard to work with. bud far batter in some things.

3th MSTS and TRS on 1 to 10 I've Give TRS a 8.9 And MSTS a 6.7 in all and all

There A new MSTS 2 coming in 09 next Year or so. Form the look of it It will Blow MSTS out of the water in the worst way in 10 times batter then MSTS or so the screen shots show!

But this is how I feel about it
 
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Hare's what i see playing TRS & MSTS

First MSTS is poor in routes there in only so mush you can add for you get errors I haver push the Sim into over drive trying to make my routes look real. and too much on a route will not load or crash wend you run a route. If i can make the route as good in MSTS like i do in TRS I would be flying.
At the same time the files are easer to work on and upload so it seems.

My friend and I created a route that looks pretty real in MSTS and there was no big issues with the route when it comes to errors. Most of the errors are caused by the user himself. BTW, The route that I am discussing is called "Rattlesnake Desert".


There A new MSTS 2 coming in 09 next Year or so. Form the look of it It will Blow MSTS out of the water in the worst way in 10 times batter then MSTS or so the screen shots show!

MSTS was released in 2001 and MSTS 2 is being released in 2009. That is a 8 year diffrence which is very big in PC games/sims.
 
My friend and I created a route that looks pretty real in MSTS and there was no big issues with the route when it comes to errors. Most of the errors are caused by the user himself. BTW, The route that I am discussing is called "Rattlesnake Desert".

True I Agree Not All MSTS routes Have Errors I'm was Thinking in Failel Error And over worked routes that I have maded over time I'l have to try your route out some time ones my pc is fixed



MSTS was released in 2001 and MSTS 2 is being released in 2009. That is a 8 year diffrence which is very big in PC games/sims.

8 yares it time for a new sim
 
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http://imageshack.us
 
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As has already been stated before, different simulators for different dimensions of one's enjoyment. I purchased M$T$ about 5 years or so ago, after reading all the hype of how realistic it was, and quite frankly I laughed, as it was utter rubbish. However, in the last 6/9 months, after watching various film recordings on youtube especially, it does seem as though the add-ons have got progressively better, the enginesounds, particularly on the British diesels and HST's do sound quite good, but, where's the clag, there is no clag.....little wisps of smoke do nothing for me I'm afraid, I also have difficulty with the signalling aspects and want to know if they have such things as tail lamps, as none of the trains I've seen running, carry one......:eek: :(
I've also very recently got into BVE, and must admit that again the enginesounds are fairly accurate, I love the Mirrlees engine on the Class 37's, that's spot on, but you take things as they are, soundwise, graphics wise, everything has it's pros and cons, and if all simulators are developing for the future, then that can surely only be good for all simulator fans........:mop:

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
 
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Not going to waste too much space responding to Mr Nikos - I do respect that some people might like KRS, that's their choice just as mine is not to. At the end of the day, they're all just "games" and pale into insignificance against the wider problems of the world.

But just to address a couple of the points:
1. Yes the optimisation in TC3 seems to have gone amiss and I'm sure it's something Auran is addressing particularly going forward to TRS2009. However the fact remains, I can populate a route in TRS2006 with high detailed 3D vegetation and it has no effect on frame rate. Anyhow, as I said, flash graphics do not a train sim make as fans of Zusi or BVE will tell you.
2. Well we are talking about default sounds here and while there's been a few tweaks and updates put out - even the payware creators are struggling to understand the sound file set up and talking about aliasing to default.
3. Actually I'm not a particular fanboy of any particular sim but I have watched in dismay at UKTS as attempts at reasonable and constructive discussion about issues have been shot down by the blind faithful and one particular member of the dev team who has tripped himself up on at least one occasion. Noticeable that many of those who were looking at the inner workings of the sim and trying to come up with a solution to problems have stopped posting. Reasonable debate has been stifled by adulation over a short, overpriced commercial route with a few more trees.
 
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At the end of the day, they're all just "games" and pale into insignificance against the wider problems of the world.

I have to agree with you on this point. It is just a game after all. I spend far too long playing it some times and forget all aboute the real world.
 
Ok, i have to post this. I currently hate KRS. The framerates suck on even my 6 month old comp with top of the line hardware. It runs smooth then decides to get slightly choppy. its annoying.

Also there is only 1 US route and while i have no problem with the other routes, it seems to be focusing on Euro stuff. Plus the lack of ammount of Scenarios in the game kinda sux.

The KRS forum is not very friendly.(several people whined constantly about the request for more US stuff.)

Unlike what is advertized on the box, there is not alot of extra downloadable content other than the "expansion packs." In fact it is almost imposible to find custom content for it and finding support for that content is equally impossible. (they remove custom content posts on their forum.)
This really sucks because its easy to get bored of the provided scenarios.

Route building is complicated and not very user friendly. (surveyer is much better) Not to mention the hoops you have to jump through to get AI traffic.

totally unrealistic when it comes to what a US consist is, especially on Cajion Pass. You can see the UK influence on the amount of cars on the train. (why do i need 4 SD40-2s to haul 15 cars?) From what ive seen Cajion pass trains are normally upwards of 50 cars.

And last but not least are these Add on packs. They are upwards of $20.00 with one at $40.00 for what. A new loco and some new scenarios. Maybe even a new route if you get the right one.

Sure the graphics are a little better (not by much in my opinion.) and the physics are better than TRS (only thing thats better in my opinion.) but we all know that its going to get blown out of the water by the true Train Simulation kings MSTS2 and TRS2009.
 
Sure the graphics are a little better (not by much in my opinion.) and the physics are better than TRS (only thing thats better in my opinion.) but we all know that its going to get blown out of the water by the true Train Simulation kings MSTS2 and TRS2009.

So True It about time too. With at all new things that keep coming out and MSTS is starting to Upgrade NOW. come on! that shoud have done it yares a go and by now we have someing like MSTS 5 or so
I know one thing I'm scrapping MSTS for good went the new Sim come.
 
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