Trainz vs. Microsoft Trains Simulator?

[NJCurmudgeon]

Occasionally I will go to YouTube and search on Trainz (particularly 2009WBE) for inspiration. I've also noticed videos for Microsoft Train Simulator. Some of it is pretty impressive and there are aspects that seem more realistic than what I see on Trainz.

I'm curious if anyone on this forum has had experience with both and have any opinions which is better and why? I'm asking about:

- Overall gameplay, ease of use, realism
- How the layout building software compares with Surveyor
- How the support forums community compare to this one for Trainz
- How good the "official" tech support is

I enjoy Trainz, and no, I'm not an MS spy here to trash Trainz from the inside! But I am curious. Some of the issues I've had with Trainz I can chalk up to running on a laptop and limitations of my own computer in general. But there are frequent issues with assets I download missing dependencies or other kuids and not working. The "AI" in "AI trains" ought to stand for "Automatic Idiot" sometimes!

I've thought about checking out MSTS too, so any honest opinions would be interesting and (hopefully) instructive!

Thank you!

 

[hminky]

I used to run MSTS under OpenRails because MSTS had Activity Generator. That would make fun random train activities. That was fun.

Then I discovered David Peterson's CMTM System update to CMTM System 2 a few days ago. Finally a real system to simulate train activity.

Get TS2010 and run his CN Holly SubDivision Pontiac Yard Ops from the DLS. You will never look at a trainsim the same.

MSTS works if you download routes and run Activity Generator to make activities. It is fun if you run under OpenRails.

Impossible to build routes, has 300 page book to explain how and a 104 page describing activity creation.

MSTS has a large community that still clings to the sim. I don't think many run OpenRails. When I got into trains sims 2-1/2 years ago I loaded up MSTS and said "What the ---?"

OpenRails is the only thing that makes MSTS palatable.

Harold

EDIT: The price of MSTS has went through the roof most copies on E-bay are over $60 used.

 

[tomurban]

I have MSTS and have not used it since I acquired TRAINZ 2006. If you just want to run some trains it is fine. However, if you want to edit a route or build a new one, it will drive you to drink. Furthermore, I believe the last update to the program was in 2002 or 2003 and it has not been supported by MS for years. If you want a copy, I will sell you mine for $30 plus shipping (If I can find it).

tomurban

 

[davesnow]

How many more of these threads are we gonna see......?

Cheers!!!

Dave

 

[sniper297]

Having developed addons for all of the Big Three, I liked MSTS in its day, but it's pretty ancient. I am on the Open Rails development team but that's got a long way to go.

- Overall gameplay, ease of use, realism

About the same in my opinion, Trainz has the "hunt the KUID" along with some faulty content that needs to be repaired, MSTS you sometimes need to hunt around for dependencies and the entire game often refuses to start at all with bad content installed or something missing.

- How the layout building software compares with Surveyor

Night and day. The MSTS activity editor is easier to set up AI traffic paths, but multiple repeats of the same AI service need to be added one at a time, and the tool itself is like the main game, anything missing or faulty will cause it to crash. The route geometry editor makes it extremely difficult to create a new route, and the tools are non intuitive. The route editor is an unholy evil beast subject to constant crashing which will destroy the route, along with a zillion "stealth bugs" like corrupted track database problems that can go unnoticed for months.

- How the support forums community compare to this one for Trainz

A lot better actually, most MSTS pioneers are still using it, and are in general older and more technically savvy than the majority of the Trainz community members. Technical questions here often go unanswered or get idiotic answers and irrelevant sidetracking.

- How good the "official" tech support is

Non existent. Microsoft released one patch in February 2002 that failed to fix the most serious problems, then just dumped it completely. There never was any tech support for the game at all from the developers, we had to figure out the whole smash with trial and error.

Trainz does AI traffic a LOT better, much much easier to set up complex operations. Merging routes or route "modules" together in MSTS is extremely difficult and requires 3rd party tools, Trainz has that built in. My opinion, if your system runs TS2010 and/or TS12 reasonably well, then MSTS would be a giant step backwards since it really doesn't have anything the latest versions of Trainz don't more of and better. For people with older systems MSTS is a better option than TRS2004, it looks about the same as TRS2004 and runs smoother.

 

[NJCurmudgeon]

Thanks folks! (Sniper, you never disappoint!)

Sounds like I'll stick with the devil I know.

 

[steamboateng]

I have a copy of the original MSTS Trains, in relatively decent shape. Is it really selling 60 bucks?

 

[sniper297]

Pretty good unbiased synopsis from a few years back;

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showth...st-quot-Train-Simulator&p=1486320#post1486320

Most of that is still true, altho the comment about Trainz requiring scripting skills to set up AI traffic no longer applies to the latest versions of Trainz.

 

[hminky]

I have a copy of the original MSTS Trains, in relatively decent shape. Is it really selling 60 bucks?

At least $40, most of the times it is at least $60

Google "Microsoft Train Simulator"

Harold

 

[sniper297]

A lot of ebay and amazon is speculators similar to the ticket scalpers hawking sold out tickets, if you have a game that's no longer being sold commercially and hasn't been released as abandonware, people who have copies for sale are always price gouging.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=zVMGT8CqM8HpqwGYsZyqBA&ved=0CFkQ8wIwAA

That one sold new retail for $30 bucks ten years ago.

 

[hminky]

Two and a half years ago MSTS went for $15 and free shipping on E-bay and Amazon.

Since OpenRails the price has skyrocketed.

Harold

 

[cascaderailroad]

I just bought a good quality MSTS disc for @$ 22 on Amazon.com ... and the disc must be constantly in the DVD drive bay when playing the game

I ony bought it to test out the Horseshoe Curve route ... but my laptop will not run the big route.

I will have to test it on my desktop PC ... It seems like a huge learning curve, and I hear that routes are complexly harder to create, than in Trainz.

MSTS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ74HEFC1VY&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL3F893B7E0F3D14AC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uGS6pXBdgc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohgFzMcLZBc&feature=related

Railworks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lfqxGwfvO4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgZbxa-1ENw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF4U2GuBWMg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttAnaudH-d8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwn1kBRo_UI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4mMKZOtVNw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LENWxQ3R0Ek&feature=related

The Prototype:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNrPq0Li3P4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVhm3q_zU2E&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndeLOLaMt6E&feature=related

 

[hminky]

I just bought a good quality MSTS disc for @$ 22 on Amazon.com ... and the disc must be constantly in the DVD drive bay when playing the game

Visit:

http://steam4me.net/

Add the patches:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/trainsimulator/downloads.aspx#tsupdate

Then visit:

http://openrails.org/

Harold

 

[SD45T-2]

I keep both around.

One of my quips about Trainz is that the cab controls feel like rubber when you move them. I've had it jump from 2 to 8 sometimes. The controls feel stiffer in MSTS.

 

[sniper297]

Well, I've been creating computer game addons for 25 years, and I can tell you that the MSTS route editor is NOT the buggiest and most difficult game editor I ever worked with. But it definitely would come in second or third place for that award. :hehe:

 

[Vern]

I've been doing a bit of driving in MSTS recently as a throwback following severe disillusionment with RailPay (I'm currently route building in Trainz TS12) and it is good but does show its age. Another limitation is that you need to play around with your video card settings so it runs in a neat box (max res is only 1280 x 1024 and no widescreen options) compared to later versions of Trainz which run much higher and fill the screen natively.

Route buildng in MSTS was always a PITA compared to Trainz - last one I did was back in 2005 or thereabouts. The advantage of MSTS over Trainz is that it does have a structured GUI activity/timetable editor and autonomous despatcher. Many of the utilities that used to assist MSTS route builders are life expired - either no longer available or don't run under 64 bit.

However one of the things I love to do in Trainz is take a seat in one of the coaches behind the loco and watch the scenery as the AI drives, something neither MSTS or RailPay really allow you to do.

 

[geophil]

... or don't run under 64 bit.

Don't blame them. Keep in mind that few hobbyist programmers coming from Win 95/98 or even 3.1 had a clue what software development implies and few IDEs of that time provided them with the necessary aids. Nothing to do with 64bit in particular. Also applies to UAC and its peculiar effects on certain legacy software.

 

[hminky]

Oh, I forgot there is Roland (GeoPhil) Ziegler's truly great TransDem program for Trainz.

Even this Caveman can have real terrain into the game in minutes.

Harold

 

[SD45T-2]

Well, I've been creating computer game addons for 25 years, and I can tell you that the MSTS route editor is NOT the buggiest and most difficult game editor I ever worked with. But it definitely would come in second or third place for that award. :hehe:

What's the worst then?

 

[geophil]

@hminky:

MSTS had DEMEX, a very efficient tool for DEMs, IIRC. Wisely, its author did not add map or aerial image support to it. Otherwise route builders would have been confronted with the distortion that came with the weird Goode Homolosine projection.