And this is not to be understood by this part of Chris' quote?
Please explain where I may be mistaken.
OK nevermind. I see what you are saying. I inferred that subscribing was the only way to participate. Got it.
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Trainz "Next" is announced...
- Thread starter Tony_Hilliam
- Start date
And this is not to be understood by this part of Chris' quote?
OK nevermind. I see what you are saying. I inferred that subscribing was the only way to participate. Got it.
Well, what an interesting read (from page 1 to 10). I didn't know it was April 1st already.
Can you just imagine someone who doesn't like your work and editing it as fast as you're creating it? LOL. And the fights that would break out because Bob wanted a tree there and John didn't. OMG, you could make a TV series out of it. Americans would be up in front of Judge Judy suing each other LOL.
I love how N3V are trying to sell the subscription idea as a great one for customers/users. All subscription based programmes do is cost more money for the end user and create a truck load more money for the owner. Adobe do it, Microsoft are actively trying to push users towards Office 365 and similar, etc etc. There is no secret about this, its revenue making and that's the bottom line.
IMO, N3V are on course to implode due to crazy business practices.
Im surprised it isn't going to be turned into a facebook game where you buy 1000 gems for $10 to activate a DDx40 or 2 more base boards of layout or something. Maybe that's the "Trainz Regurgitated" version. LOL
Yip, good luck with that and all those who get sucked into it.
Best laugh this week so far (luckily its only Monday and is bound to get better).
Can you just imagine someone who doesn't like your work and editing it as fast as you're creating it? LOL. And the fights that would break out because Bob wanted a tree there and John didn't. OMG, you could make a TV series out of it. Americans would be up in front of Judge Judy suing each other LOL.
I love how N3V are trying to sell the subscription idea as a great one for customers/users. All subscription based programmes do is cost more money for the end user and create a truck load more money for the owner. Adobe do it, Microsoft are actively trying to push users towards Office 365 and similar, etc etc. There is no secret about this, its revenue making and that's the bottom line.
IMO, N3V are on course to implode due to crazy business practices.
Im surprised it isn't going to be turned into a facebook game where you buy 1000 gems for $10 to activate a DDx40 or 2 more base boards of layout or something. Maybe that's the "Trainz Regurgitated" version. LOL
Yip, good luck with that and all those who get sucked into it.
Best laugh this week so far (luckily its only Monday and is bound to get better).
amigacooke
Well-known member
I say, good luck with that.
iannz, I appreciate your humour but I do question whether or not your have actually read all the posts in pages 1 to 10. Certainly, there are many posters who have misunderstood how the proposed "multiuser" Surveyor would work.
Only those people who have been approved by the original route creator would have access the route for viewing or editing, and only those sections (I assume baseboards) that the original creator will allow them to view or edit. That approval can be revoked or modified at will and at any time by the original creator. Any work created by these "guest editors" can be rolled back by the original creator at any time. I also understand that any "guest edits" will go into separate layers. It would be simple (and sensible) for the original creator to prevent conflicts as you describe by assigning only a single guest creator to each section.
I agree that a subscription based system is a "bottom line" initiative. But individual users can make their own decisions as to whether or not it worthwhile for them. Personally, I would probably not go for it but I will wait to see the details, pricing, etc. A subscription, according to the news release, will not be the only option. I would hope that outright purchase will still be possible.
Only those people who have been approved by the original route creator would have access the route for viewing or editing, and only those sections (I assume baseboards) that the original creator will allow them to view or edit. That approval can be revoked or modified at will and at any time by the original creator. Any work created by these "guest editors" can be rolled back by the original creator at any time. I also understand that any "guest edits" will go into separate layers. It would be simple (and sensible) for the original creator to prevent conflicts as you describe by assigning only a single guest creator to each section.
I agree that a subscription based system is a "bottom line" initiative. But individual users can make their own decisions as to whether or not it worthwhile for them. Personally, I would probably not go for it but I will wait to see the details, pricing, etc. A subscription, according to the news release, will not be the only option. I would hope that outright purchase will still be possible.
Yeah, I did, but anyway...
To answer your query about online (subscription based) and out-right purchase...
So, if you want to take part in the online route driving or creation, you have to have the subscription based game. If you have purchased the game (outright), you wont be able to use, play or be involved in any of the online routes. Effectively, if you want the advanced options of the game, you are forced to rent, rather than buy.
No, that is not the case. Chris (WindWlkr) made no such statement. You only have to be invited (or approved if you applied) by the original creator to join the online community, the group of guest creators, that can edit or view a section of the route. Nothing about subscription only members.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Thanks Peter.
That's what I figured, but wasn't sure if I'd missed something.
This is why I have trouble trusting anything Tony says, because after the heated discussions on DRM in the run-up to release, He said that they'd decided to release T:ANE DRM-free because of the uproar.
This was then followed by him saying months later that he never promised any such thing (when someone asked when it was going to happen), until many people quoted him saying exactly that.
At that point he went very quiet on the subject, and eventually a "special" upgrade for "DRM-free if you hurry" was announced.
Not what was promised.
And many people bought T:ANE on that original promise, and have said as much here since then.
You can see why I wasn't sure if there was a DRM-free version available, because it's almost unbelievable that those events occurred, and I had hoped by now that there was a retail version available DRM-free to prove me wrong.
I guess not.
Technically they did keep their word, albeit limited edition/limited time offer, but it's that sort of sneaky behaviour that breeds contempt, and it's why I wish people here had more patience with those people who got burnt by Tony's words, and those, like myself, that almost did.
Again, your discussion above with Pware shows how their vague statements just lead to confusion, misinformation and sometimes arguments.
And yet they keep doing it.
I will wait until a long time after release to see just what it is, so their words really aren't going to affect me.
I just wish people would go easy on those that don't swallow every word that's fed them from N3V.
They have very good reason, based on recent events, to be a bit suspicious about the finer details, and what they're actually going to get.
N3V should keep quiet until they have more concrete details, and should definitely have more of a presence on the forums to answer people's questions when they do announce something.
They could quite easily quash all this unrest.
And yet, here we are again.
Brian.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Those with OSX are not able to have a DRM free version by any means. Not financially viable to make the build apparently.
Hello there, sir ...
And to all as well!!!
Yes, I was here when, literally, the old forum opened its' doors .... Back then, not too many trainz users!
It was basically a small group of guys, enjoying trainz 1.3 ... And enjoying the fruits of the net, since it was kind of new for some folks back then, too ...
(PS. I missed the General Off-topic forum!):hehe:
So, been here since the damn of trainz life ... And I'll tell you, trainz is like a tree.... it has grown from the ground up, blossoming its' branches further out into the cornfields with each passing year. Thanks to Tony, who stepped in and save Trainz (Auran) from going under, and re-structured the company to form N3V , and continue forth with its' development with train ... In other words, without Tony, there's no trainz, period ... (People really need to know his history with Auran!)
Trainz needs to grow, and right now the public have no idea how that picture is going to look like. It seems everyone wants to hold on to what happened with TANE ... I say, so what, it's been stated a million times ... it was release a year early, but how many of you, including myself, has run a company? ... There's are other entities involved too in that decision.
Anyhow, Trainz "Next" is everyone's TANE of last year .... It's just not good approach to think like that ....
Let me put it this way .... I don't like using this example, but here it goes:
You're marry to a woman, and it hasn't worked out for a while ... things look gloomy and doom ... so you get divorce. Then you meet this other woman ...
Are you going to be compare her to the old wifer, without allowing that relationship to grow? ... and see where it leads?
Come on, folks --
TANE had issues ... SP1 addressed a truck-load of issues (have you seen the list Tony posted) ... Now, you have Trainz "Next" ... just an announcement ... no screenshot ... no details ... and yet, folks judge it without any merits.
***The humor behind all this that it's being tackle at two fronts -- Another thread is out there trashing TANE! -- I don't get it!
What do people really want at the end of the day?
And please, before anyone says things like "well, TANE is broken, bla.. blar"... Can you not run a trainz, build-routes, run with sessions, etc etc ...?
At the end of the day, Trainz Next will get here, beta-esters will tested it, people will jump onboard, and then everyone will calm down ...
Then, the next version is announced, and we are here back again, LOL
It's the same old trend ... twilight Zone, style! LOL
Have a good night all!
Ish
But at least you now acknowlege that the old wife was indeed dreadful. We're making good progress, doctor.
Yes, and what do you do thereafter ... move on, instead of beating yourself up all about it!
Beating around the bush, and going in circles, it's pointless!
Until we all get a good insight of what Trainz Next is all about!
Life does go on, folks ... and Trainz Next is coming ...
Ish
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I'm not quite sure what you are waiting for. The N3V announcement couldn't have been any clearer:
- There will be a subscription model. To use it you have to pay for it.
- In return you get a multiplayer Surveyor, based on online services.
These are fundamental statements and they don't need any more detail to form your own opinion.
The Trainz users were invited to comment on that announcement, that's the idea of the whole thread, isn't it?
Now, do we want a subscription model? My conclusion from the majority of postings here: No, we don't.
Do we want a multiplayer Surveyor? Here indeed, not everybody may be able to come up with sound arguments, pro or con. But those who have hands-on experience in team projects can (organizational/management side). And those who understand distributed applications (IT lingo) can as well (technical/implementation side). And again, I can't find the envisaged enthusiasm for this either, having read almost all of the on-topic postings.
Me, waiting? LOL ... singing ... " I don't so, sir" ... LOL!
You have it all wrong, sir ... You've said you read through the thread, well, the vast majority is attacking Trainz "Next" without any merits.
I am just defending N3V position! Very simple. Very clear!
Because as a customer, I like online play ... not your cup of tea, don't subscribe to it . Tony said Trainz will function as any other previous trainz product, so you're not require to jump into this "Online" thing, etc!
Also, The game, is at least, two years off ... who knows what else will be involve ... that's what I meant, by, there could be more info and stuff with it.
And again, which it seems you left out from my other posts, so please, don't just pick things out ... those two questions quoted I've clearly answered using Tony's FAQ ... Tony's own statement ... not mines!
Tomorrow is a mystery, that's a fact of life ...
Wait and see what happens!
Ish
What we all know is that N3V has very limited resources. The announcement suggests that the multiplayer Surveyor will be built as a custom client/server model, and not based on standard off-the-shelf solutions (aka repository). Having designed a few client/server systems myself with several different technologies over many years, I think I have a tiny bit of background to ask questions here. Even with the latest frameworks available today any form of remoting is still a major challenge to any development. As in most scenarios, it's not only the synchronous and possible also asynchronous mechanisms to set up for a multi-user environment. For an editor - and Surveyor isn't the most trivial example here - it's also about consistency, locking at various levels, transaction integrity etc. It's all been solved many times before, but it always takes time and money for every new project. The human resources allocated to this task won't be available for any other task - even if some project managers tell you otherwise - and with so many other open issues with Trainz as a railway simulation you ask yourself whether this multiplayer Surveyor is such a wise idea.
Of course, there may be other priorities from N3V's point, and Tony made it once more clear today: His major concern is revenue.
Okay, sir, now that's more like it ... your statement is more concrete and base of your knowledge on how software behalf's ... you're not nip-picking here, LOL
So can I approach this with more open-minded opinion!
Your points are well taken, but who's to say that's not what they will do at the end of the day! My approach here is very simple. Let's see how it all pans out by years end, and then form concrete opinions .... Honestly, I will be the first one not buy if I don't like it, or a take wait-and-see approach, ex: let other's buy it and weight on their responses. I did this for the Classic Series, which I never bought!
Believe it or not, sir, time goes fast ... I have twin daughters in 1th grade, and how fast time has gone from the day they were born to now ... driving nuts behind me since there's no school today! LOL ... in other words, time is one our side, and hopefully N3V uses that time to re-define their concept, etc .. we will see! LOL
About revenues, it's something I don't ever question and/or comment, because who I am how to tell people how to feed their families!
Kind Regards
Ish
We might want to have a look at this thread here from the Suggestion Boxcar forum. 
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?112946-Multiplayer-surveyor&highlight=multi-user
We thought it was a good idea back then. How times have changed...?
John
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?112946-Multiplayer-surveyor&highlight=multi-user
We thought it was a good idea back then. How times have changed...?
John