Trainz Content Creator Program, now online!

[Vern]

When did making money become a bad thing? This idea was going to be in TS12 but never got done.

No one is saying N3V shouldn't make money or they and their associates shouldn't sell DLC.

What is said, is that it should be done ethically both in terms of the re-use policy for those who have contributed assets free and the T&C for those who actually sign up to this.

It's also rather important the platform you're going to try and sell it on is stable and bug free - doesn't matter how lovely the route or exquisite the rolling stock, if it's going to run at 8FPS with a draw distance of 1200m no-one is going to bother.

 

[clam1952]

I seriously doubt that all the freeware creators are suddenly going to turn into Payware creators. As soon as you start charging for stuff or getting paid it ceases being a hobby and becomes a business subject to Tax VAT etc dealing with deadlines and rude and demanding customers.............. sound familiar? :hehe: Also stops being fun and becomes a chore, been there and no intention of making that mistake again!

 

[Vern]

Yes Malc, I did it twice for MSTS and it became an all consuming monster, which soon wasn't fun anymore. The rewards weren't that great either not after paying tax and NI plus even after it all finished I was having to fill in a self assessment tax return for a couple of years after. Then theres the politics and personalities of some of the people you have to deal with (makes our conversations we all have on here seem like a cosy chat down the pub!).

Doing it as freeware for yourself is much easier, no pressure and if something eventually pops out the other end worth sharing, so much the better.

 

[normhart]

While I generally support the TCCP concept I want to raise a concern I'm sure many freeware creators and users are worried about. As we have discovered many freeware assets on the DLS have been changed to "Built In" once they are included in a Payware route or session. Since many of these assets are specifically designed and labeled as "free to use or modify" by the creators and offer users the opportunity to learn repainting, script modification, and etc., but once labeled "Built In" are no longer editable/clone-able. This does a great dis-service to both the original author, budding content creators, and the community as a whole and is a disincentive to uploading anything to the DLS. It is clear the there must be some category other than "Built In" for assets that are available on the DLS and are not built specifically for a particular Payware route or session but are included in a Payware route or session. Until this is the case the TCCP is not something I can recommend to folks making Payware other than individual locomotives and Rolling stock. (and even those would need to be careful not to use freeware trucks, products, etc.)

Until the above concern is satisfied I certainly will not be buying anything via TCCP.

 

[n8phu]

Great Point Normhart. This would SERIOUSLY discourage anyone from putting their freeware creations on the DLS anymore.

I would imagine there would be a full on revolt if freeware creators get locked out of their own creations!

 

[clam1952]

While I generally support the TCCP concept I want to raise a concern I'm sure many freeware creators and users are worried about. As we have discovered many freeware assets on the DLS have been changed to "Built In" once they are included in a Payware route or session. Since many of these assets are specifically designed and labeled as "free to use or modify" by the creators and offer users the opportunity to learn repainting, script modification, and etc., but once labeled "Built In" are no longer editable/clone-able. This does a great dis-service to both the original author, budding content creators, and the community as a whole and is a disincentive to uploading anything to the DLS. It is clear the there must be some category other than "Built In" for assets that are available on the DLS and are not built specifically for a particular Payware route or session but are included in a Payware route or session. Until this is the case the TCCP is not something I can recommend to folks making Payware other than individual locomotives and Rolling stock. (and even those would need to be careful not to use freeware trucks, products, etc.)

Until the above concern is satisfied I certainly will not be buying anything via TCCP.

Yes the builtin / payware locked issue, for creators the only way to beat that is to create a new version of your original with a higher version number and upload to the DLS, that works and will undo the damage as it obsoletes the builtin or payware version, tedious and shouldn't need doing however it removes the problem.

I have a whole 4 items in T:ANE, two Payware, two builtin all successfully upversioned locally from my originals, pays to never get rid of anything!

 

[davesnow]

Great Point Normhart. This would SERIOUSLY discourage anyone from putting their freeware creations on the DLS anymore.

Yep! It sure would!

 

[martinvk]

Whatever, starting to feel like the DRM posts all over again.

As for the actually idea, if the serious content creators get on board, that's their call. If they are comfortable with the terms and conditions, so be it. Why are some people getting so worked up about it? Don't like it, don't join.

Even with several hundred uploads and several million downloaded by others, I still consider myself as an amateur creator. As Vern so eloquently described it in post #43,

Doing it as freeware for yourself is much easier, no pressure and if something eventually pops out the other end worth sharing, so much the better.

At the end of the day, this balloon will fly or pop on its own merits, if the creative people participate or not.

 

[cascaderailroad]

I think my days of uploading to the DLS are over.

If N3V doesn't get T:ANE fixed, pretty darn quick, you won't have to worry about that, as N3V will be forced to close up shop, for not delivering a finished product, that is defective in so many ways !

 

[john2002]

Oh no, my nightmare is coming! i fear that this will result in the dls being abandoned and everything becoming payware and if that happens im quitting trainz forever officially

 

[bendorsey]

Two questions:

1. Does everything content creators currently have on the DLS and upload in the future fall under this new system?

2. How will content creators know an item they uploaded has been included in a route that falls under this new system? N3V going to inform us?

Thanks,

Ben (seriously confused)

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

You and many others john - which is why it will never happen! The DLS has been a big part of Trainz since the very early days and will continue to be so - and that 100% guaranteed! Strong enough commitment for you to allay those fears?

Regarding the other posts, many counter-arguments have already been supplied, so here is a snapshot from me:

- Payware is a consumer choice. If no-one buys it, the content creators gets nothing. If lots of people do, they make some money. Market forces decide pricing, a volume. Lots of books have been written on the subject, so I don't need to go into more detail
- This is not a new business model. We've been selling DLC for many years. What is new is the ability to submit content through a new process designed to help make it easier to get DLC ready for consumers
- Regarding using freeware in a payware route or session, if ALL the content is free now, in theory it could be on every Trainz machine as well. So the DLC creator needs to add value in order to get people to pay for the new content. If they add value, people will purchase it, if they don't they won't.
- Ben, DLS content is not affected by the new DLC system - uploads and downloads are as they always were
- Regarding informing people how their content from the DLS is being used, just as we don't advise when it is downloaded or used in a freeware route, we will not be advising when it is used in a new DLC route

 

[john2002]

yes...........

 

[amigacooke]

- Ben, DLS content is not affected by the new DLC system - uploads and downloads are as they always were

Tony, will the DLC produced by this system take assets that are on the DLS and make them uneditable by users, subject to DRM and the latest version that the CM will demand is present for that asset to work, or will the DLC pull content from the DLS when required like other routes do?

Sorry at my lack of technical knowledge.

 

[bendorsey]

Hi Tony:

That certainly answers my first question - thanks.

As for the second - in a way you do advise us when its downloaded (by the download count) but that's for it as a normal item on the DLS. If its used in a DLC route does its status on the DLS change in any way (in reference to the "lockout" comments above)?

Ben

 

[normhart]

Thanks for responding Tony,

Currently in TANE I have 34 "Built-in" assets from bendorsey of which 7 are marked "Installed, Payware". I also have 105 "Built-in" assets from davesnow of which 20 are marked "Installed, Payware". Presumably these assets were used in the routes included with my Deluxe version of TANE. If I purchase a DLC route do the DLS assets now marked as freeware used in this DLC become "Built-in" or "Installed, Payware" on my system? Do they become "Built-in" or "Payware" on the DLS?

Edit: Please do not misunderstand me, I am in favor of the TCCP. I will be one of the first lined up to buy TUME's Municipal Transit Railroad when it comes out, I am hoping to see ANL's Union Pacfic Locomotives become available again. I think, that for talented modelers who hope for some renumeration, TCCP could be a game changer. But it should not come at the price of changing freeware author's creations into unaccessable assets.

 

[davesnow]

Thanks for responding Tony,

Currently in TANE I have 34 "Built-in" assets from bendorsey of which 7 are marked "Installed, Payware". I also have 105 "Built-in" assets from davesnow of which 20 are marked "Installed, Payware".

Okay.... where's my money??!!

 

[normhart]

Hang on Dave I'm still reskining it, should be on the DLS soon. :hehe:

 

[pware]

Interesting to note how the tone of this thread has softened from the earlier "hot-angry" posts - or is that simply a time zone thingy? A lot of foam and froth by a few over something that has basically been, as Tony pointed out, in operation for years.

As a modest contributor to the DLS I have no problem with N3V using my "hard work" (TM), which I freely admit is largely based on the hard work of others, in their payware content. I am more than happy to let N3V use it, if they see fit, to earn them some much needed cash. After all, my work would not exist if it wasn't for their product.

So no, I will not be stopping my uploads to the DLS because of this. As for getting payment - as Vern (and others) pointed out - I don't need the tax or the ongoing support headaches that payware brings. So I don't care what % of the purchase price I will not be getting.

As for splitting the community - like it split over whether TRS2006 was better than TRS2004, or if TS12 SP1 HF4 ruined TS12? Who cares?

Currently in TANE I have 34 "Built-in" assets from bendorsey of which 7 are marked "Installed, Payware"

That, I believe, is another of the many known issues or bugs in T:ANE and not part of any conspiracy, real or imagined.

 

[OlegKhim]

I've created maps with free content.
Question? I'm doing what the effort to create a route? I am a creator (artist)? I build the route as well as the artist paints a portrait. You do not ask an artist who sells paintings, what colors he painted it, bought or given to him free of charge. That's right, you are buying a painting, not a set of paints on canvas.


I believe that once the developer has uploaded to their content of DLS, it means he wants that his creation would someone use on routes no matter paid or free.


Without routes, locomotives or houses are simply beautiful crafts and everything.


Understand me correctly, create locomotives, wagons, the environment is also not less complex. But the end result is still the route.


With regard to premium content - a good idea. Most likely it will be more high-quality content. But the price should be minimal, roughly the same as payment for travel on the subway can even less.
Low price would cover more people. More players will buy and everyone will be happy.
Example - 1$.