Track Laying

[marco_pv_it]

Hi everybody. For those who have 2009 (or Auran people...)

1) Can I now build track in a "segment-oriented" way ?
I mean: straight, length 200m, direction 23degree, then curve, radius 600m, length 200m (or how many degrees) and so on ?

2) Is it now possible have 2009 create parallel spline point at a determined distance, so that it would allow easy construction of parallel lines ?

Thanks, Marco.

 

[JCitron]

Hi everybody. For those who have 2009 (or Auran people...)

1) Can I now build track in a "segment-oriented" way ?
I mean: straight, length 200m, direction 23degree, then curve, radius 600m, length 200m (or how many degrees) and so on ?

2) Is it now possible have 2009 create parallel spline point at a determined distance, so that it would allow easy construction of parallel lines ?

Thanks, Marco.

Hi Marco,

Look for fixed track. These are pre-built segments of curves, junctions, and straight sections of various lengths.

They are under scenery objects and not under the trackside or trackspline objects.

John

 

[backyard]

Git'er done!

Hello Marco, welcome to the Auran Forum Community, glad to have you aboard!

All track is layed from point A to point B in the direction of train priority(south to north, north to south, etc.) on the line, by placing "Spline Points" to change direction, build turnouts, etc.

Here is a link to a thread with a chart to convert radius in feet/meters to degrees(%).

Parallel track can be created by placing all Spline Points together on both lines...you must hold the Shift key before you set the spine point or it will attach to the other line & form a junction.

I build actual railroad routes using Digital Elevation Mapping(DEM). This method allows me to use Topo Maps to create the route on a Geo-Data Elevation Map.

Like John wrote, there are Fixed Track options you can find by using the Search function in Content Manager v2.0.

Feel free to use the Forum Community for questions & enjoy your visits...!

You have chosen a train simulator that will be around for a long, long time.

Please visit theFAQ page at the upper left of this page & search for whatever you need...you have a lot of reading to catch-up on...

Now, go do your homework!

 

[marco_pv_it]

Hi backyard, and thank you for your reply.

I actually have owned every version of Trainz since the very first until (included) 2006. I have to say, however, that I barely used 2006: I was moving to the US in that period and it fell on the backburner

I have actually started building a route, for which I did not have any DEM, but only an old map, listing ONLY length of straights and radius of curvature.

There is (was ?) no way of properly placing rails: suppose I start with a track running towards 090 degrees (west to east), followed by a curve.
Now the curve ends after 37 degrees, so the new alignment will be 057 degrees.

Now, how do I build a straight segment, precisely "x" meters long, that starts where the curve ends and has a direction of 057 degrees ?

This has been requested since a long time, but it seems never been implemented.

Also: parallel tracks the way you mention are NOT really parallel: they follow more or less the same direction, but try to keep the exact same distance (I forgot the english term, sorry) between the two rails.

This is even more true in yards or stations.
Designing a big station with spline points and rulers is (was) an instant headache.

There are other items, but let me rephrase: was there any improvement on the track laying process in TS2009 ?

Thanks, Marco.

 

[RPearson]

Marco, No easy way to do it in Trainz Surveyor. The ruler tool and some 3rd party protractors and tools for yard ladders are about it. My take on using them - it's painful and lacks accuracy. 8-( The yard ladders work but spacing is fixed so no freedom to change it to suit your particular circumstance.

I gave up long ago and layout all the track work in cad and then translate a dxf file of the dwg to trainz .trk file. GeoPhil's TransDem has similar capability by reading vector data and creating .trk file.

We can always hope the future will bring good news but each new version of Trainz makes it harder to keep hope alive.

Bob Pearson

 

[Dreadnought1]

Here is a link to a thread with a chart to convert radius in feet/meters to degrees(%).

Rail curves were defined by radius in much of Europe (in metres) and most of the British Commonwealth (previously in chains/feet but now in metres) so they don't use the "degree" method and thus the curve measurement in Trainz works nicely in these cases. Curves built on older British and Commonwealth lines were also often simple curves, not transition curves as the majority of rollingstock were short 4-wheelers rather than long bogie cars/wagons.

Many years ago, a visiting US railfan once asked me about a specific horseshoe curve and how many degrees it was. He was exceptionally surprised when I described it as being a 180 degree curve. At the time, he wasn't aware that curves in Australia are described by radius and I had never heard the severity of a curve described in degrees. Ahhhh, we all live and learn...

Cheers,
Dreadnought1

 

[marco_pv_it]

Marco, No easy way to do it in Trainz Surveyor. The ruler tool and some 3rd party protractors and tools for yard ladders are about it.

Thanks Bob.

I'm sad to notice that this has not changed yet.
I do not have autocad, and certainly am NOT getting a hacked version for this.

I know this was asked a number of times, but did Auran ever explain why a (seemingly) simple feature was never added ?

Ciao, Marco.

 

[Dreadnought1]

There are at least two protractors I've used previously.
There is a large and a small protractor.
Search the DLS under "360" and you should find them.
Cheers,
Dreadnought1

 

[backyard]

...other sources...

Marco, do a search on the Download Station/Trainz Version TRS2004 for Title Curve Radius(use caps). There are 19 specific radius templates available from maddog1196. TRS2006 CMP lists 26.

If you wish to use this method, the Conversion Guide for Curve Radius... may still help.

The guide gives three methods of describing radius.

The important point is knowing what minimum radius your equipment may handle, or what radius your chosen route specifies.

Then use the guide to convert into meters & the Surveyor "Show Curve Radius" tool to verify the specification.

As for a smooth curve, manipulate/remove spline points as needed.

Good Luck!

P.S. Please post something on the page Conversion Guide for Curve Radius... so I can get an e-mail for a link to the page...Thanks!

 

[RPearson]

...
I do not have autocad, and certainly am NOT getting a hacked version for this.

Ciao, Marco.

I don't recommend using a hacked version either. I use Cadrail and TuroCad both relatively inexpensive but not cheap I've spent several hundred US$ on them over the years and a very old Autocad rel14 left over from a previous employer's bankruptcy. But there are several 2d cad programs for free around that can work since 3d is not essential. For my utility the main consideration is outputing a dxf file of the vector data. TransDem also accepts this.

The dxf format is easy to work with although far from perfect. I only need a subset - the entity and block sections are enough. The .trk file can be set up with fixed vertex heights or allowed to float on the existing .gnd terrain (the only choice for 2d work) in which case you have to do all the grade work in Surveyor. I developed the utility basically as tool for my own use and 2nd for anyone who has cad - drafting - experience and wants to try another approach. Learning to use a 2 or 3d cad program just to do this is probably more effort than doing it all in Surveyor.

You're right Auran doesn't comment on what's not included and since most users think Surveyor's track laying is the best thing since sliced bread at least compared to other train sims it's difficult to argue - there are too few of us making noises. You actually find a lot of users arguing against adding tools that can do this. Some see no purpose to it at all. Some are afraid it will make it too complicated - the kiss group. But we don't want these capabilities to replace what's there now in Surveyor, we want them in addition to what's there.

With TS9 Auran has indicated they will be making dll libraries available to 3rd party programs which will make it a lot easier for others to pick up on this. Intentions are cheap but I hope they follow up on this.

Anyhow I gave up on Auran doing anything about it many years ago and wrote the utility.

Bob Pearson

 

[marco_pv_it]

With TS9 Auran has indicated they will be making dll libraries available to 3rd party programs which will make it a lot easier for others to pick up on this. Intentions are cheap but I hope they follow up on this.

Anyhow I gave up on Auran doing anything about it many years ago and wrote the utility.

Bob Pearson

Thanks again Bob for your comments.
Well, this is a free world after all. If most people are happy with this, I am happy for them.
I will use my freedom to not buy TD2009, just for this reason.
There is a reasonable number of alternatives out there.

Thank you again.
Marco.

 

[Tokkyu40]

...I have actually started building a route, for which I did not have any DEM, but only an old map, listing ONLY length of straights and radius of curvature.

There is (was ?) no way of properly placing rails: suppose I start with a track running towards 090 degrees (west to east), followed by a curve.
Now the curve ends after 37 degrees, so the new alignment will be 057 degrees.
...

Thanks, Marco.

The only way I could think to do that would be to print out a relief map and plot the known locations and then join them using the info on your chart and the contours of the ground as a guide.
Then divide the map into 1km squares and use basemaps to draw the trackplan onto the terrain in Trainz.

Claude

 

[marco_pv_it]

Hi Claude.
Yes, there are several methods to circumvent this quite silly limitation.
I had even started writing a small c code that would just create the .trk file starting from the list of segments.

However, I also had a situation where I needed curved switches (which are common in europe).
I could NOT place the spline points in a way that gave me the right size, and I do not intend to model every single piece of track I need.

I really do not understand why it should be me running around known limitations. Just ditch the sw and move to something better.

Which is a pity, I really like the concept of TS, I was eagerly awaiting the first one when it came out.

So mine are criticisms out of love.
I'll be here waiting, when I think it will have the features I desire I'll buy it again

Marco.

The only way I could think to do that would be to print out a relief map and plot the known locations and then join them using the info on your chart and the contours of the ground as a guide.
Then divide the map into 1km squares and use basemaps to draw the trackplan onto the terrain in Trainz.

Claude