Talk about a scam

[norfolksouthern37]

no it was to JohnK who got the award for the dumbest post i have seen today.

when you get TS2010 for instance, the old stuff that was constructed properly will work. if there was something wrong with it from the start, then no it probably wont, even if the old versions of 04 06 allowed it to show in the game. even if some items show up in the game they may cause it to perform badly because yes the content was made badly, or was limited by the way things were done in the older versions. for instance splines had no LoD, so naturally they will perform badly compared to the new splines which do have LoD.

 

[motorbreath]

And just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on 9 or 10? And are the draw distances really as awful as I have read for 10?

I know this isn't quite on topic, so I apologize in advance.

 

[Sampug394]

...Plugged each version full with that content and now want to charge access for it. None of which they built. The community built it all and they now want to charge those same people to access their own content...

Talk about a Ridiculous Loophole. Even though it may be Awesome to have your content 'Featured' in a world-wise usage basis in Trainz, I've read in several cases they didn't even ask the creators to use their assets.


'I'll sell your products to everybody else, but even though you invented them, you're not allowed to use them yourself. It's against our Petty conduct.'

 

[Johnk]

Snippet: ... the fact is, that when someone like MS does this they force you to upgrade the files too.

Come on man, I'm not a fan of Bill's, but never in my life have I ever been asked or told to rewrite a book or even a sentence when I've upgraded from one version of a word processing program to another.

Quickbooks doesn't ever say "Sorry, but this latest version can't read files from an earlier one.' Excel doesn't say "those old spreadsheets need upgrading." CorelDraw doesn't bark at you either, in fact the latest version of CorelDraw and MS Word can still read stuff written with versions 15 to 20 years older.

Auran (N3V) set the standards, not you or I. If they accepted garbage then, they should still be able to deal with the garbage now. let's face it. Most of the garbage was generated through poor documentation and terrible communication. Where else in the world would you find a program as complex as Trainz supported by a 54 page A6 manual? I use a simple web design program written by a company much smaller than Auran, and the manual for that is over 300 pages. Trainz doesn't even have a Help file.

Snippet: no it was to JohnK who got the award for the dumbest post i have seen today.

I would expect the mods to deal with that comment. Happy holidays!

 

[amigacooke]

Come on man, I'm not a fan of Bill's, but never in my life have I ever been asked or told to rewrite a book or even a sentence when I've upgraded from one version of a word processing program to another.

Hardly like for like though is it? Reading text files is a little bit easier than reading 3D formats.

 

[Johnk]

Hardly like for like though is it? Reading text files is a little bit easier than reading 3D formats.

It seems my friend, that you can find fault in anything. A wonderful virtue I'm sure, but one I do not wish to share!

Pray tell, since when has a CorelDraw file or a Quicken file, or a Excel file for that matter be classified as a text file?

Only you will have the wisdom to answer, but I wonder who will listen?

 

[norfolksouthern37]

And just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on 9 or 10? And are the draw distances really as awful as I have read for 10?

I know this isn't quite on topic, so I apologize in advance.

yes the draw distances are as awful as you have heard, but only if you do things like i mentioned, and try to use old splines and stuff with no LoD. i didn't believe it either, until i made new splines to replace old ones and BAM i had beautiful draw distance.

 

[motorbreath]

Well that is actually encouraging. Thanks.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Quickbooks doesn't ever say "Sorry, but this latest version can't read files from an earlier one.'

Nor Does TS2010

Excel doesn't say "those old spreadsheets need upgrading."

sure it does, you didn't notice how old xls files should now be saved as xlsx types now? this upgrades them into the xml based formats...

CorelDraw doesn't bark at you either, in fact the latest version of CorelDraw and MS Word can still read stuff written with versions 15 to 20 years older.

so does TS2010 - ok not that old because none exist, but yea...

Auran (N3V) set the standards, not you or I. If they accepted garbage then, they should still be able to deal with the garbage now. let's face it. Most of the garbage was generated through poor documentation and terrible communication. Where else in the world would you find a program as complex as Trainz supported by a 54 page A6 manual? I use a simple web design program written by a company much smaller than Auran, and the manual for that is over 300 pages. Trainz doesn't even have a Help file.

they DO accept the garbage. what they dont accept anymore is assets that were not created properly to begin with, as in not by the CCG. they ALWAYS had errors, but because they were not caught does not make them error free. the only other problem i have seen is the .texture problem, but that is easily fixed.

 

[martinvk]

...
I think every software developer on earth should be legally obligated to make there stuff backwards compatible with earlier versions. Auran (N3V) should be no exception, especially when they got the stuff for nix in the first place. I'll bet they would be waving another flag if they wrote the earlier stuff themselves.

I would bet that nothing new would be produced or if it was, it would be bloated with conversion routines.

...
Here is a challenge to Auran (N3V): Please show us a precedent. Please show us one software product out there that isn't 100% backwards compatible. Just one.

Does it have to be software? I tried loading some old 5.25 flopppies but my super CD drive wouldn't read them. Terrible that the drives are not 100% backwards compatible. Or does hardware not count? As for Word, it is backwards compatible to a point but often has issues with specific parts of a document, especially fonts and formating.

Since TS2010 can use objects made for previous versions if they are well made, it is backwards compatible. They might be inefficient but that's another issue.

For a different analogy, old cars needed leaded gasoline. Modern gasoline station don't sell leaded gasoline. So they are not backwards compatible either. So we boycott the gasoline stations or buy a modern cars.

 

[HiBaller]

Or buy a little bottle of lead additive like I have to for my '64 VW camper bus. It's engine requires leaded gas. :hehe:

That would be analogous to creating a conversion program that runs on the new software to make things backwards compatible. That begs the question: Why would you want to if the newer format allows greater freedom and/or features:

Bill

 

[martinvk]

Or buy a little bottle of lead additive like I have to for my '64 VW camper bus. It's engine requires leaded gas. :hehe:
...

Bill

Yikes, do you know what lead poisoning does, especially to children. Just look at the panic when they discover some lead paint on things or lead glazes on ceramics. And you want it spewing out your tailpipe.

 

[HiBaller]

Oh, give me a break, Martin. I doubt seriously that my paltry 40Hp engine is much of a hazard unless I use it in an enclosed room. Anything that gives me over 45mpg can't be all that bad. Plus, the "lead" additive states clearly on the label that it isn't 'real' lead but a chemical substitute that is only used to help keep the cylinder temperatures down and the valves from burning.

Bill

 

[martinvk]

... Plus, the "lead" additive states clearly on the label that it isn't 'real' lead but a chemical substitute that is only used to help keep the cylinder temperatures down and the valves from burning.

Bill

Whew, in that case I might go after them for false advertising, if it is not "real" lead :hehe:

Meanwhile, back to the OP, still don't see how clearing old stock at fire sale prices is a scam, but then there are many things I don't understand..

 

[Bill69]

snip: Plus, the "lead" additive states clearly on the label that it isn't 'real' lead but a chemical substitute that is only used to help keep the cylinder temperatures down and the valves from burning.

Bill

That is correct, the lead additive is usually benzene or toluene both of which can be used as paint thinners. Their function is to slow down combustion and therefore stop precombustion or knocking.

Bill69

 

[HiBaller]

Meanwhile, back to the OP, still don't see how clearing old stock at fire sale prices is a scam, but then there are many things I don't understand..

I don't see anything wrong with that either. Retail stores do it all the time, and so do software houses. Just because the version of Trainz is old doesn't make it run any worse, or have less functionality than it started with.

Even if all you have is TS2004, if you have a FCT you can still download content for TS2004 until it is finally removed from the DLS - if ever. The edict from Auran was only for UPLOADING content for the affected software.

This isn't what I'd call a scam at all.

Bill

 

[K4driver]

Highballer, guess you got the lead out huh?

 

[sparky15]

Hi-baller hit it...."IF ever"

Time to move on, things are better. Great. Where's that better in the box? Auran upped the bar with little to show for it, where's the new efficient content that is needed? My bad, the community hasn't made it yet. How about the provider, with all the new what is a customer rules and what we need to make it all better, put up something? Can't, been relying on the community for content for far too long.

Instead we are stuck with the same old recycled content they have been throwing in these releases all these years. Complaints about draw distances, blame it on the creators because they haven't made the new content right yet. Where is the CCG for new content? I haven't seen one. How could they make it since they get to learn after the fact and still with no guidance from the publisher.

If you're going to change the rules and up the bar, lead by example. Either provide the content needed or get off your lazy backsides and give everyone what they need to do it right. After release is beyond the wrong time to say we need this. Cutting your own throats.

One day you will all realize this company is selling you your own stuff back. Each new release will be packed with the same old inefficient content from the DLS and the poor performance will still be the communities fault. "We could have done so much better if just you made the content to the specs we won't spell out for you. Until then, here's another dose of inefficient content to hold your game back because we can't provide it."

Dave.......

 

[jadebullet]

how does this make it not work in a month?

It won't work to full capacity, or as properly advertised upon the boxes of said game. Hell 2006's manual and box are constantly raving about the DLS. In my opinion, that is part of the game. Just my opinion though. It will still work, but not fully.

I just think that they should have mentioned the cancellation of DLS service in a month on the page for said games. I understand that it is a fire sale and everything, but really, it should be a consideration.

Edit: Okay, just looked at the thread, and I am a mused as to how off topic it has gotten. lol.

 

[WindWalkr]

Where is the CCG for new content? I haven't seen one.

Here, as always.

If you're going to change the rules and up the bar, lead by example.

We are.

Each new release will be packed with the same old inefficient content from the DLS and the poor performance will still be the communities fault.

Strange. That doesn't seem to be the case.

cheers,

chris