An Open Letter to N3V

[dleblanc]

I was pleased to see in a recent newsletter that N3V have started developing ray tracing for the DX12 graphics system.

Which is a good thing, especially since it can be a solution to the age old alpha ordering issue.

Perhaps my expectations are too high, but in my opinion unless N3V works toward the option of real world mapping (whether Google or Bing maps) on the surface patch, they'll lose ground (no pun intended) to competition.

 

[pware]

but in my opinion unless N3V works toward the option of real world mapping (whether Google or Bing maps) on the surface patch, they'll lose ground (no pun intended) to competition.

Yes, the ability to mark out an area on Google Earth(TM) and paste it straight into Surveyor with all the elevations correctly transferred would be heaven sent. In my current project I have so far spent many (many) months manually transferring the elevations from one to the other along two branch lines totaling a bit over 200km. When I was working in an often very stressful job this was my therapy - a simple repetitious task that required almost no thought and had no stress - but now that I am retired I would like things to move "faster" as I fear that life really is "too short".

I do have a copy of TransDEM on my system but have never really "got into it". It is undoubtedly a brilliant software package but I found it too complicated and, as I understand it, it requires an early version of Trainz (TS12 or TANE?) which I no longer have installed. Yes, there are plenty of tutorials on it available but to me they read like Ph.D dissertations.

My thoughts.

 

[RoysTrainz]

@Pware
Transdem is really a brilliant program I used all those years for ALL my rocky mountain routes including Calgary now in final WIP. (Final wip means never finished but just a release that serves the purpose)
It is a different story using it on a big city as the limits of trainz many times hamper the full effect of what Transdem can do.
The big city needs many times a smaller than 5x5 grid but there are ways to get around and make the best of it.

 

[JCitron]

Yes, the ability to mark out an area on Google Earth(TM) and paste it straight into Surveyor with all the elevations correctly transferred would be heaven sent. In my current project I have so far spent many (many) months manually transferring the elevations from one to the other along two branch lines totaling a bit over 200km. When I was working in an often very stressful job this was my therapy - a simple repetitious task that required almost no thought and had no stress - but now that I am retired I would like things to move "faster" as I fear that life really is "too short".

I do have a copy of TransDEM on my system but have never really "got into it". It is undoubtedly a brilliant software package but I found it too complicated and, as I understand it, it requires an early version of Trainz (TS12 or TANE?) which I no longer have installed. Yes, there are plenty of tutorials on it available but to me they read like Ph.D dissertations.

My thoughts.

It's not as hard as it looks. You need to pick and choose what features you need and stick with those then once you get used to the program, learn the other parts.

It would be nice if Google Earth (tm) maps were easily and directly downloaded, but the problem is licensing. For the casual viewer and user, these are free but for companies to use these and make them available to customers, they need to pay a hefty fee to Google for the "rights" to license the maps.

 

[capdiamont]

TransDEM can be used with Trainz22, to import the elevations
with some track. Once imported in to the higher Trainz versions, you can’t export to change elevations to TransDEM is my understanding.

 

[pware]

I have been told that TRS22 does have the ability to alter the terrain elevation for an entire route but I have yet to test this out.

My problem with my current project (started back in TRS2004) was that most of the terrain was laid down in the time before Google Earth and TransDEM, and I started the project 483 metres lower than the correct elevation and totally flat. When I started adding additional sections to the layout much later I set the new terrain to match the actual elevation minus a correction of 483 metres so that the new sections could be correctly merged with the old. I am now re-landscaping the original flat sections so that their terrain elevations are correct but minus the 483 metre factor. It would be impractical and far too much work for me to start again from the beginning with the correct elevations as the total length of the route, including branches, is now over 550 kms.

 

[swdw]

I made a very similar post to the original post in this thread. So many companies are going to the subscription model that the annual cost to subscribe to all the software I have would be almost $2000. Companies are charging what they consider reasonable w/o considering what happens to the overall cost for the end user when it goes beyond their one package.

Developers hate users only upgrading over 2nd or so version because they have never taken into consideration the fact that the end user may be spreading his /her cost out so they can afford the upgrades.

Let's also look at this from another angle. The DLC content issues were supposed to be fixed. They never have been. I downloaded content for 2019 , only to find that it used content from a user who is no longer on the DLC or even on line. Because of the fact they never flat out told developer if you post FREE content it has to be under the GNU license and tell other developers that they can include other developers free content as long as its attributes, there has ALWAYS been broken content on the DLC. Pay for content is a different story though.

Don't want to hear how that would not be fair because I've done mods on both flight simulators and a sub simulator where that was the norm. Instead of inhibiting user development, it spurred it into overdrive.

Then consider, I PURCHSED content off the DLC for 2019 that was made by major trainz developers AND IT WAS MISSING CONTENT. Did some of the trial downloads for DLC content I could purchase when they ran the special last year. Fully 1/3 of the content I tried had missing dependencies. At least I was able to try it for free and not wind up losing money.

And with all of this they want us to now subscribe? Sorry but I have been disappointed for the last time, and with the issues with the DLC NEVER being resolved, they will not get a penny from me for a subscription. These issues are also why I haven't purchased a DLC ticket for something like 18 months.

If they want more money coming in . . . FIX THE STINKIN DLC ISSUES! Then you can make money in between versions the way games like Guild war 2 does, off the addons.

 

[swdw]

I agree that the sound is lacking in Trainz and always has. Why did some of the early diesel locomotives sound like vacuum cleaners? That was one of my earliest observations way back in 2002-2003 before I purchased TRS2004.

The biggest issue though is the cost. How much this will cost, especially hiring a sound engineer or consultant. They people get quite the premium for their work. Tony did mention that this is on the every-growing to-do list but whenever we see the end results is up to him.

I would just be happy if they created quillable whistles / horns, and had the engine and steam sounds ramp smoothly with speed instead of in noticeable increments (especially with steam). This would NOT require new sound recordings and engineers.

When I've asked about this, I get "oh that's difficult and not capable in the sound engine". Translation: "We're too darn lazy to rewrite the code so live with it". Having a friend that been a game developer for years and who is now a senior project manager, he's basically told me the same thing when asked about these kinds of issues- they're making excuses, probably because they coded themselves into a corner and don't want to do the work required to rebuild the code.

When you consider that the sound on my MTH and Lionel locomotives can do this, and do it convincingly, with a small sound chip, and N3V has access to all the power of a sound card in a PC, their "reasons" for not doing this are laughable.

 

[clam1952]

I would just be happy if they created quill able whistles / horns, and had the engine and steam sounds ramp smoothly with speed instead of in noticeable increments (especially with steam). This would NOT require new sound recordings and engineers.

When I've asked about this, I get "oh that's difficult and not capable in the sound engine". Translation: "We're too darn lazy to rewrite the code so live with it". Having a friend that been a game developer for years and who is now a senior project manager, he's basically told me the same thing when asked about these kinds of issues- they're making excuses, probably because they coded themselves into a corner and don't want to do the work required to rebuild the code.

When you consider that the sound on my MTH and Lionel locomotives can do this, and do it convincingly, with a small sound chip, and N3V has access to all the power of a sound card in a PC, their "reasons" for not doing this are laughable.

Well seeing as the have a new sound system in TRS22 we may get some movement on sound issues https://www.trainzportal.com/news/view/Trainz-Plus-Update. Need to remember small independent software company with very few staff what to you may seem like a few lines of code could require thousands of line of code to be altered. OK compare with the like of open rails,, yes they have reasonable physics but the rest of the program is still very old looking for 2022.

[h=2]Improved Audio[/h] This is a back-end update that brings support for the latest Microsoft sound API to PC users. This resolves a rare but long-standing bug in the OpenAL API (where Trainz would crash when you reached 63mph) and delivers improved sound across the board.

Please note that there are no other changes to the internal sound system. That project is a major undertaking and will be addressed when we find more time in our schedule.

Sounds do actually seem better with this new sound system, got a way to go with it yet though looking at the above quote, which does indicate possibilities.

Payware DLC I'm not that bothered about, although I have a Gold subscription, I have it to support future development, not to add to a collection of stuff I'm unlikely to use and I can afford it at present even though I'm not a fan of subscriptions.

 

[amigacooke]

Sounds do actually seem better with this new sound system, got a way to go with it yet though looking at the above quote, which does indicate possibilities.

Mac users may wonder whether this is another unfortunate choice that leaves their version inferior to the Windows one.

 

[frogpipe]

I'm way more interested in a competent sound system than I am in mm terrain.

 

[BIGJ369]

I haven't been here for a long time. This is a great thread to get me up to speed on the current state of play. Will decide if I take the plunge. On one had if it is a rehash, not sure on the value, however on the other hand, it is good to support a software developer that is interested in developing a game in a niche of railway simulation.

Coming up to Christmas, might be the present that I am struggling to come up with for my family to get me.

 

[boleyd]

Perhaps it is time to thank Mr. Barno for an enlightening commentary. As we move to 2024 has anything changed?