station signalling

[pdw84]

Hi,
as I was playing around to build a new route and test some different accessories before starting my real project, I was confronted with the following question: which type of signalling can I use to have red light when a loc enters a station and turns green after unload/load passengers as in real life?

thanks for helping me on this.

best regards, Peter

 

[JCitron]

I don't think anything like that exists and sounds like it needs to be scripted as part of the station, or tied to the load command somehow.

 

[stagecoach]

This should be possible with an enhanced interlocking tower (EIT).

 

[MasterTracklayer]

I really don`t know much about EITs, but from what little I do know, I would have to agree with @stagecoach.

 

[pware]

which type of signalling can I use to have red light when a loc enters a station and turns green after unload/load passengers as in real life?

You could do this with any signals plus some session rules in the Session Editor.

For example:

1. Use the Set Signal Extended Rule to set the station exit signal to STOP
2. When the train enters the station (e.g. detected by a Track Trigger?) use the Wait on Train Stop/Start Rule to indicate when the train has stopped moving, which will trigger a
3. Wait Rule to wait a set number of seconds after which the
4. Set Signal Extended Rule sets the station exit signal to CLEAR

All of the above assumes knowledge of how to use the Session Editor.

 

[WestSideRailways]

have you tried putting an invisible junction at the end of the station and have set against the train. as soon as the load has finished and the train has set the route, it should switch and that way it will turn signal to green.

 

[MasterTracklayer]

You know, I think that any/all of these ought to be sufficient to the purpose, and I figure there are probably other ways to do it, too. I also think that @JCitron is correct, and there is probably no single thing already existing that will do it alone.

 

[JCitron]

have you tried putting an invisible junction at the end of the station and have set against the train. as soon as the load has finished and the train has set the route, it should switch and that way it will turn signal to green.

Why? That's too easy a solution. I like it and may use it myself.

There is one issue though, the junction has to be far enough from the station due to the locomotives sometimes extending beyond the platforms. Most stop at the end of the platform, but some do stop beyond. I think this has to do with the station script used. If the junction is too close, the AI will get stuck as it tries to use the invisible track branch instead of the main. I have run into this issue with some trams I use on a route. For some reason, they stop beyond some of the station platforms instead of at the platforms.

 

[MasterTracklayer]

@JCitron, what happens if the frog faces the station instead of the points?

 

[JCitron]

The AI engine can pull on top of it and do weird twisty moves to cross over it. I put in a bug report on this and was told it is what it is! User-driven trains can't do this and will sometimes derail on the wrong-facing points.

 

[MasterTracklayer]

Oh. I thought that the combination of the frog and the points set to the fake siding might prevent the signal from allowing the train to enter the junction, or isn`t that how it works? Did I express that clearly enough? Station, signal, frog-end of junction with points set for the invisible fake siding. Having the points set off the main line should make the frog-side signal turn red, blocking the train from even entering the frog-end of the junction. No? Yes? Go jump in the lake?

 

[JCitron]

You are correct. If the engine extends past the junction because it has to due to the station script, then it can run into the junction and end up sitting on the points that are facing the wrong way. It's not that this doesn't work, it can be flaky. I use a similar setup to control some crossovers on my trolley route. I tried the famous EITs but due to the track layout, they didn't work. Instead, I use some fake junctions that are set by default to the invisible track running in the "wrong" direction for the train. This requires the AI to stop and set the switch, and in the process other trains coming the other way can cross over the tracks.

This setup is also used for derails. A derail is basically a junction lever with one active real track and a short stub of invisible track on the derail side.

 

[WestSideRailways]

Why? That's too easy a solution. I like it and may use it myself.

Why? That's too easy a solution. I like it and may use it myself.

There is one issue though, the junction has to be far enough from the station due to the locomotives sometimes extending beyond the platforms. Most stop at the end of the platform, but some do stop beyond. I think this has to do with the station script used. If the junction is too close, the AI will get stuck as it tries to use the invisible track branch instead of the main. I have run into this issue with some trams I use on a route. For some reason, they stop beyond some of the station platforms instead of at the platforms.

you are more then welcome...
you test the station first to find out where the loco will stop, then place the junction a little bit up the track.

 

[MasterTracklayer]

Gah! I had to reboot after typing almost my entire message, due to a game (not Trainz) that I also had running deciding to turn the system into an arthritic snail.

There is a real-life derailer near downtown in the place I live. A two-track main line from the east becomes a one-track main line just where a spur splits off to the north-west to a local private freight dock (that probably hasn`t been used for decades). To the west, the main line becomes two-track again. On the spur, just off the main line (where it is still parallel to the south track) is a derailer, set to derail any train that attempts to take the spur. I have lived here for decades and have never seen the derailer disengaged.

A derailer could probably be created as a Trackside object that is scripted to derail any train that tries to drive over it. I could probably script it, but no way I could 3D model it.

My education in this matter seems to have taken us slightly off topic. Trying to return, it is good to know that the arrangement I had envisioned would work and suit the purpose being discussed in this thread.

I had a thought. If traffic at the station is two-way, the station could be protected this way at both ends, and the two invisible spurs could be connected each to the other. It would look kinda weird if a train took the siding, but at least it wouldn`t derail.

Well, that`s at least similar to what I had written when things went glacial here.

 

[WestSideRailways]

Gah! I had to reboot after typing almost my entire message, due to a game (not Trainz) that I also had running deciding to turn the system into an arthritic snail.

There is a real-life derailer near downtown in the place I live. A two-track main line from the east becomes a one-track main line just where a spur splits off to the north-west to a local private freight dock (that probably hasn`t been used for decades). To the west, the main line becomes two-track again. On the spur, just off the main line (where it is still parallel to the south track) is a derailer, set to derail any train that attempts to take the spur. I have lived here for decades and have never seen the derailer disengaged.

A derailer could probably be created as a Trackside object that is scripted to derail any train that tries to drive over it. I could probably script it, but no way I could 3D model it.

My education in this matter seems to have taken us slightly off topic. Trying to return, it is good to know that the arrangement I had envisioned would work and suit the purpose being discussed in this thread.

I had a thought. If traffic at the station is two-way, the station could be protected this way at both ends, and the two invisible spurs could be connected each to the other. It would look kinda weird if a train took the siding, but at least it wouldn`t derail.

Well, that`s at least similar to what I had written when things went glacial here.

Been there done that, disrupts the train of thought does it not.

 

[MasterTracklayer]

Been there done that, disrupts the train of thought does it not.

Indeed. Sometimes even derails it.

What did you think of my idea for a scripted derailer? More relevant to the thread, what did you think of my idea for protecting the station at both ends?

 

[JCitron]

In Trainz, the derailer is basically a junction-lever. A scripted junction-lever, i.e. derailer might be the way to go.

In real life, a derailer is a small flange that's bolted on to a rail and set to force a rolling consist off the tracks and into the ties. There are two kinds of derailers. The portable type is clamped on to the rails and can be moved to various sidings as needed. The other type is set up like a switch with a flag and lever. The alternative to a derailer is a short stub of track off the spur or active line that goes off to nowhere such as into a pile of dirt, or a single rail attached to one of the tracks doing a similar duty.

There used to be a single-rail type located in the old town where I used to live. This was attached to the mechanism for an automatic switch that controlled the interlocking at that location. When the switch was thrown for the mainline, the derail-rail was switched towards a rock wall (ouch) automatically. This used to be visible from Google Earth, but where the tracks used to go to single-track the line was restored back to double track and the interlocking has been removed.

 

[MasterTracklayer]

A scripted derailer could be basically any scripted trackside object, preferably a custom model in a custom asset, not just a specially-scripted lever. The "physical appearance" and the specific trackside subclass to derive from should not be significant.

The real-world derailer near me is the permanent kind with the extra hardware. It should be possible to deactivate it without removing it. Unfortunately, it is clearly visible from the local north-south main street that crosses the tracks between the spur junction and where the siding peels off. If this derailer ever performed its essential function, the resulting mess would be dumped right across that five-lane road. It is only yards away from the pavement, about the length of a small freight car. Even if the derailed vehicle(s) didn`t wind up in the street, the repair crew certainly would.

I just had an amusing thought. Someone has almost certainly done this already. Build a route with a derailed train as part of the scenery, and a road crew on-site trying to rerail it.

Now, how can I steer this back to the subject of signaling the train at a station that it is now free to depart? I don`t know, but I think we`ve been off-topic plenty long enough. Build a derailed train scene at a station? Nah, not close enough. Sorry.

 

[JCitron]

We can discuss the derailed train elsewhere...

Yes, this can be any trackside object including an invisible one. I use invisible switch levers all the time for this purpose as I mentioned regarding the crossing where the line on the right crosses over the through line on the right from the opposite direction. I also used this setup until someone made derailer objects.

 

[MasterTracklayer]

I also used this setup until someone made derailer objects.

I knew it was possible.