Speed trees. How many is too much?

If you're running a High End computer (SOmething you probably dropped a few Grand into building), you can probably run Speed Trees by the thousands and not have any issue....

@Dricketts
What route is that? If its yours or not distributed, can you tell me what sky that is at least? I'm looking for good sky Assets..... Thanks!

Im using an $850 gaming laptop. It runs my route with 100s of pofig's trees in a small area at 50 + FPS.

It's my Frisco Highline Route in the pic above. PM me as a reminder and I'll get back to you on the sky. I'm not at my computer I use for Trainz now.

The problem with Speed Trees is we need lots of them and they're usually too big. The huge ancient trees are, for the most part, a thing of the past unless you have them in towns and in parks. The rest of the countryside might have one or two big trees, but the rest is covered with smaller younger species, and even thickets of saplings and smaller tree species. Trying to match this effect in Trainz is nearly impossible. The other thing with Speed Trees is they're perfect, and always perfect with full branches up the trunks as though the trees had nothing to stop them from growing. In real life, trees in a forest are bare from the crown down. This means there are lots of bare trunks with fluffy, leaf-covered tops.

John

I agree some of our best speedtreez can look a bit too well groomed. It's amazing the effect you can achieve by burying the trees at various levels. Realistic overgrown, thick, vegetation can easily be achieved. Here's an example.

oIWv08Z.jpg
 
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All the 'experts say that speedtrees don't affect FPS. Well all I know is that by removing them and doing nothing else my trainz runs a hell of a lot faster.
The other thing is why do we nwwed trees that move around. You cant see the movement when you are going past at 50 MPH.
cheers,
Mike
 
All the 'experts say that speedtrees don't affect FPS. Well all I know is that by removing them and doing nothing else my trainz runs a hell of a lot faster.

There may be a host of other factors that could explain that. In my case replacing all the standard trees with just a few varieties of speedtrees made no difference to the performance but did significantly improve the appearance.

The other thing is why do we nwwed trees that move around. You cant see the movement when you are going past at 50 MPH.

We are not always speeding past at 50 MPH. Sometimes we are standing at the station, or waiting in the yard or a siding. In any case most speedtrees look more realistic than most other trees - IMHO.
 
Im using an $850 gaming laptop. It runs my route with 100s of pofig's trees in a small area at 50 + FPS.

It's my Frisco Highline Route in the pic above. PM me as a reminder and I'll get back to you on the sky. I'm not at my computer I use for Trainz now.

Ill send that PM in a moment.

Just wanted to add, I'm on a ~$300 3rd Gen i5 Quad Core Tower NO vid Card (Ebay Gem, lots of room to expand, waiting on the vid card till finances are right), and can probably run a few hundred within Draw Range with very minimal impact to FPS. I wasn't trying to say you HAD to have a $5K computer to run them... I was trying to say that a $5K computer would run Thousands in a small area with no issues. IE, there's a curve of Performance vs Available Resources across the spectrum of available Machine Specs.... Alot of Trainz users don't seem to understand this.... The problem here isn't the Speed Trees, its the user's lack of computer resources, very *GENERALLY* speaking.

This is a common problem with an aged franchise like trainz. People that start with a High End computer at the time of release suddenly wonder why the game doesn't work so well half a decade in when they've never upgraded their computer (Again, this a broad general statement, it doesn't apply to everyone).

Falcus
 
This is a common problem with an aged franchise like trainz. People that start with a High End computer at the time of release suddenly wonder why the game doesn't work so well half a decade in when they've never upgraded their computer

Very true. I am now on my second Trainz "high end" computer that is now about 4-5 years old (my first one would now be pushing its 12th birthday if it was still around). I have noticed a significant difference between the performance of the same Trainz layout on my 4-5 year old computer and on a new i7 "all singing-all dancing" notebook computer that I had the use of. I am now looking at getting a similarly configured desktop machine for when T:ANE is released.
 
Isn't anyone bothered by the twinkle on Pofig's trees, never looks realistic while driving with all that shimmer.

Then again most train-sims are used as screenshot simulators.

TrainzItalia's Donner looks great without Speedtrees while operating .

Harold

The twinkle is due to using MipFilter=none in the texture.txt files.

none - Disable mip map generation in CMP and use in game. Specifically for user interface elements.

Get rid of that line and there is no twinkle, Trees will obviously look slightly different.
 
ஜீTrees

because they look great in screenshots and background material. ~snip~
Agreed.

~snip~ not so much when actually using the sim.
If they look great in background material then it follows that they form an extremely important part of the scenery when actually using the sim.



~snip~ Even in this shot you hand-picked (and no offence to Casper) ~snip~
No offence taken at all Nicky. I welcome healthy and constructive debate.:p

~snip~ the textures are obviously low-res and jagged around the edges.~snip~
I think they are quite good. Perhaps you need to adjust your screen settings.

~snip~ Not only that, because this is a billboard, you only have 2 or 4 planes to look at. There's a very thin line down the center - this is the other plane. Casper very carefully picked this angle ~snip~
True. The vertical line could have been eliminated completely had my viewing position been more accurate. I must do better!:eek:

The careful alignment is not done just for screenshots, but also for the in game trackside cameras. Once lined up, the second plane is never exposed as tracking cameras pan to follow the train. The perfect camera facing photographic image is retained throughout the camera movement for all trees within camera view regardless of their position, near or far.


~snip~ And the thing about Trainz; it's a train simulator not a screenshot simulator.
Trainz is anything you want it to be. I like to use the software to its fullest capacity, and then try to find ways to push the boundaries still further. I think that screenshots are a very important part of the Trainz experience, be it producing something that’s pleasant to look at, to illustrate techniques, or help others to solve problems. Check out the Forum threads. Screenshots are the most popular in terms of viewings and submissions. And it’s my guess that they probably contribute more to the sales of Trainz than any other form of publicity.



Isn't anyone bothered by the twinkle on Pofig's trees, never looks realistic while driving with all that shimmer. ~snip~
It bothers me a bit Harold. I like the trees but the apparent dusting of what looks like caster sugar which I've seen in some shots does detract from a really nice series of trees. It would be good if this could be eliminated.


Keep in mind too that billboard trees are not affected by the environment so that no matter what lighting changes there are, the trees will have the same lighting when the original trees their pictures taken.~snip~
Well mine go dark at night time John. I agree that the lighting angle of the foliage will remain the same as the original photographic texture image, but the whole asset will lighten or dim according to time of day setting. They will also go misty in fog settings etc. So billboards do respond very realistically to environmental settings.


Here are a few I’ve placed on a route I’m currently working on. The foreground trees have been placed with random rotation and no subsequent adjustment to get their “best face forward”. The first shot, in the dark.


treesmountains2_zpsf2961968.jpg~original




Here’s the same view in daylight to illustrate the trees more clearly, the impact of leaving the trees placed where the random rotation dictated, and show that the illumination responds correctly in day or night lighting. (I’ve added the ground shadows using a darker texture). The foreground, mid and far distance billboard trees look fine to me.


treesmountains1_zpse671c5cc.jpg~original


Cheers
Casper
 
If they look great in background material then it follows that they form an extremely important part of the scenery when actually using the sim.

That is probably why I said they look good as background material. Should have said "when using the sim where the viewpoint changes are drastic" but it got snipped off somehow. Great detective work, so glad to have you around.
 
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Did you make those Billboards Mezzoprezzo? If so I'll have to have a look at them. I'm STILL trying to sort out vegetation on my Route.... OH my Kingdom for a decent Vine Maple! lol..... sigh....

Falcus
 
The twinkle is due to using MipFilter=none in the texture.txt files.
Get rid of that line and there is no twinkle, Trees will obviously look slightly different.
That doesn't work, the pofig trees look awful, even worse than the N3V SpeedFreaks!!

Harold
 
Did you make those Billboards Mezzoprezzo? ~snip~
No. I've never made any trees.

I simply enjoy using the ones made by the great creators and am ever grateful for the variety and range that they have produced so well over the years.

Jankvis (kuid:328583) has made some nice maples of various sizes, types and seasonal colours. Maybe one of those is a vine maple. Check out the DLS.
 
The three dimensional trees in Far Cry 4 look good. Trailer here.

Not only do the trees look almost real, they react to passing movement.

To quote the Metro review, "The open world is huge and filled with details such as vegetation that reacts to your passing (trees that sway in the downdraught of your gyrocopter are particularly impressive) and bush fires that can flare up with a single Molotov cocktail. There’s never a hint of slowdown either, and as with Dragon Age: Inquisition, the implications for what this means for the future are just as exciting as what’s already been achieved now."

Gyrocopter downdraughts and setting light to trees probably isn't a feature wanted in Trainz, but vegetation movement as a fast train passes would be good.
 
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I've been working on a route for over a year now, but with TANE coming I'm wondering what I'm going to do with all the trees. I've mostly used Pofig's trees, which look fairly good. Have any of the beta testers had a good look at the new trees? Are they a significant improvement in both performance and appearance?
 
The three dimensional trees in Far Cry 4 look good. .

Maybe too good. Once this is available here (18 Nov 2014, I believe) I think all my asset creation activity for Trainz, and possibly shopping, eating and sleeping too, will stop. The bad thing about games like FC4 is that they show how far ahead all the big game producers are in terms of graphics. And when you finally get back into Trainz and see the ugly Speedtreez and same old stuttering and alpha-rendering problems, well it's hard to accept.
 
Have any of the beta testers had a good look at the new trees? Are they a significant improvement in both performance and appearance?

Just downloaded and installed the latest Beta (Beta 2.1 build 70186). The speedTrees files are enormous - a couple of GBs - I am still downloading them (its been a couple of hours).
 
Once this is available here (18 Nov 2014, I believe) I think all my asset creation activity for Trainz, and possibly shopping, eating and sleeping too, will stop.

Haha Deane, so it turns out it's not just "the yoofs" who suffer from this. :hehe:

Thing about Crytek and their development policy; they don't aim to make the game run great on everyone's computer, they put their absolute technological and artistic best into their games. It's not so much as a game as it is a form of benchmark software. When the original Crysis came out almost no home computer could run it at max settings. Even today it puts many other games to shame - and this was from 2007, mind.
 
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