MeowRailroad
CKRail
Would an SD9 be in the same era as a B&O Docksider? I am making a transition era shortline and would like to know what locomotives would work well, and also? Where could I find a 60 tonner locomotive?
SD9's
- Thread starter MeowRailroad
- Start date
MeowRailroad
CKRail
Ok so I assume that it would work?
nfitzsimmons
New member
As a 6 year old kid in 1954 I remember riding in the cab of a Dockside that was switching cars into my dad's coal company, so yes, they did overlap.
Tansition Era would have seen a cornicopia of locomotives. I'm not specifically familiar with the B&O, but I do know other east coast railways would use anything. Usually locomotives repurposed as heavier steam locomotives were relegated off of Mainline service to fulfill the duties of smaller Steam or pre-transition Diesel. Alot of East Coast lines used early Box Cab Diesel switchers that used to be used for Yard Switching around that time. It was also pretty common to see small steam, particularly smaller Yard Goats (0-4-0s, 0-6-0s usually, the 0-8-0s mostly went straight to scrap later from what I've seen). The thing with Dockside service was that the turnouts were usually really tight, so they wanted as small a wheelbase as they could get, and combined with the Weight restrictions for up 100 year old Wooden Docks, they pretty much unanimously wanted small locomotives.
So in short (Not really, Short anything is hard for me), if you're gonna use an SD-9, I'm sure it happened, but make sure you're not rolling it out over half a mile of flimsy looking Dock, and I doubt it would have been assigned permanently unless you're trying to replicate some of the more recent Car Ferry stuff (Thats probably the one exception to some of what I said above, and even that tended to follow similar guidelines. Don't really need a powerful locomotive to shunt 5-8 Cars at a time usually).
I would also take what XCrossi said to heart. If you're looking for Transition era, IE steam still rolling around, the SD-7/9s were one of the first major replacements for pretty much any mainline Steam locomotive they came accross. So it was pretty rare to see them ever "Relegated" to anything until the mid to late 60's when the more powerful Alco's notably came along to replace them (And many lasted right up until the SD-40's Era). When Most lines weighed the 4-6-2 or the 4-8-4 or even the 2-10-2's against a couple SD-7/9s, the SD's usually won out as long as the company could afford the purchase. It'll all depend on where and what you're trying to model. If you have a large Harbor or River complex, it probably had its own dedicated smaller switcher. If this is a Car Ferry on the Side of a Mainline, then it probably would have been built so that Mainline Power could deal with it.
Falcus
So in short (Not really, Short anything is hard for me), if you're gonna use an SD-9, I'm sure it happened, but make sure you're not rolling it out over half a mile of flimsy looking Dock, and I doubt it would have been assigned permanently unless you're trying to replicate some of the more recent Car Ferry stuff (Thats probably the one exception to some of what I said above, and even that tended to follow similar guidelines. Don't really need a powerful locomotive to shunt 5-8 Cars at a time usually).
I would also take what XCrossi said to heart. If you're looking for Transition era, IE steam still rolling around, the SD-7/9s were one of the first major replacements for pretty much any mainline Steam locomotive they came accross. So it was pretty rare to see them ever "Relegated" to anything until the mid to late 60's when the more powerful Alco's notably came along to replace them (And many lasted right up until the SD-40's Era). When Most lines weighed the 4-6-2 or the 4-8-4 or even the 2-10-2's against a couple SD-7/9s, the SD's usually won out as long as the company could afford the purchase. It'll all depend on where and what you're trying to model. If you have a large Harbor or River complex, it probably had its own dedicated smaller switcher. If this is a Car Ferry on the Side of a Mainline, then it probably would have been built so that Mainline Power could deal with it.
Falcus
MeowRailroad
CKRail
It isn't on a dock, it is a little city railroad with 5 industries that purchased a used Docksider along with 3 SD9's. I took a few pictures of the engines. From the left the engines are: Docksider #98, SD9 #5, SD9 #6, and SD9 #7
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I like the disused switch you did in that bottom photo. Nice looking route.
At the end of the day, you can do whatever you want. Prototype or not is up to you.
That said, # and type of locomotive would have been dictated by a laundry list of variables. Is this actually a City owned/operated rail line? Or is this a part of the B&O system? You said there 5 industries, how much traffic are they expected to see (The answer to this will also affect perspective track work)? If you have shiploading, or dock/wharf based industries with Rail Service, that would have been the province of the docksider (This kind of thing was incredibly prolific on the east coast through the mid-20th century, and every solution under the sun was used somewhere).
Anyway, looking forward to your response,
Falcus
At the end of the day, you can do whatever you want. Prototype or not is up to you.
That said, # and type of locomotive would have been dictated by a laundry list of variables. Is this actually a City owned/operated rail line? Or is this a part of the B&O system? You said there 5 industries, how much traffic are they expected to see (The answer to this will also affect perspective track work)? If you have shiploading, or dock/wharf based industries with Rail Service, that would have been the province of the docksider (This kind of thing was incredibly prolific on the east coast through the mid-20th century, and every solution under the sun was used somewhere).
Anyway, looking forward to your response,
Falcus
MeowRailroad
CKRail
Wow! A Trainz Veteran said that this was a nice looking route! I am so proud of myself! 
It is neither, it is a separate line with 3 SD9's, and an ex-B&O docksider. The industries are a TOFC loading, a paper mill, a warehouse, TOFC unloading, and a port. So yes, the docksider is only there for working the docks. The railroad also does interchange traffic.
It is neither, it is a separate line with 3 SD9's, and an ex-B&O docksider. The industries are a TOFC loading, a paper mill, a warehouse, TOFC unloading, and a port. So yes, the docksider is only there for working the docks. The railroad also does interchange traffic.
judahGrice
Retired Trainz User
I think that like 100 post makes you TV, so...
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MeowRailroad
CKRail
So? SOMEONE said my route was good looking. The route is finished, I wonder if anyone would like it on the DLS. There are some rather bad parts though, that I have been meaning to do but am too lazy.
The trick with route creation, for distribution, is answer this question: Can you live with yourself knowing you didn't finish it before upload? Now, you have to balance that against 2 other things, specifically your Frustration level mostly, but also "Do I ever want to get this route released"?
You can also throw in the idea that, if anyone really likes the route, they'll be able to modify it themselves, but it won't make you an overly popular route builder unless you have some explainable reason as to why you have or have not done what you did. I would also point out that, if you're not doing it because it seems boring, chances are so would many prospective Users, and users tend to like being taken care of, rather then having more work foisted on them.
Also, releasing unfinished routes also beggars the question: "Well, I got this half finished route from the DLS, and I added a bunch of content, why shouldn't I just release it as my own?". And if they have legitimately done the majority of the route or most of it why not? They should at least mention you as the progenitor of it but there have been plenty of instances where people haven't even done that, by design, default or mistake.....
Finally, remember that its easy to make a few good scenes that stand out, its a whole nother matter to make a good route. Track-work is the start, but Geographical Layout for things is a vastly underestimated skill in this endeavor IMHO.....
I'll have to go looking for that Brick Warehouse on the left next to the Docksider, I could use that....
Falcus
You can also throw in the idea that, if anyone really likes the route, they'll be able to modify it themselves, but it won't make you an overly popular route builder unless you have some explainable reason as to why you have or have not done what you did. I would also point out that, if you're not doing it because it seems boring, chances are so would many prospective Users, and users tend to like being taken care of, rather then having more work foisted on them.
Also, releasing unfinished routes also beggars the question: "Well, I got this half finished route from the DLS, and I added a bunch of content, why shouldn't I just release it as my own?". And if they have legitimately done the majority of the route or most of it why not? They should at least mention you as the progenitor of it but there have been plenty of instances where people haven't even done that, by design, default or mistake.....
Finally, remember that its easy to make a few good scenes that stand out, its a whole nother matter to make a good route. Track-work is the start, but Geographical Layout for things is a vastly underestimated skill in this endeavor IMHO.....
I'll have to go looking for that Brick Warehouse on the left next to the Docksider, I could use that....
Falcus
judahGrice
Retired Trainz User
I have no problem with that. I like your route!
Feel free to ignore this post. I like your route; you've obviously put a great deal of work into it, and it shows. Read on, if you want an evaluation from a "true to prototype" perspective.
Since you state that the railroad does not interchange traffic, and has only 5 industries, the odds are very slim that the SD-9 would be used on your shortline in the transition era since at the time these were brand new locomotives, generally assigned in groups of multiple units to heavy drag freights, like long coal trains on the B&O between the coal fields and the port. If your railroad had a locomotive of the style of the SD-9, which is to say a road switcher of some type, it would have been something on the order of an ex-US army RS-1, and given the size of your railroad in terms of number of industries, would have likely only had one. Odds are, however, the railroad would have only had a single locomotive, and odds are it would have been a small industrial switcher, perhaps with the docksider as a backup for when the diesel was down due to need of major repairs.
ns
ns
Since you state that the railroad does not interchange traffic, and has only 5 industries, the odds are very slim that the SD-9 would be used on your shortline in the transition era since at the time these were brand new locomotives, generally assigned in groups of multiple units to heavy drag freights, like long coal trains on the B&O between the coal fields and the port. If your railroad had a locomotive of the style of the SD-9, which is to say a road switcher of some type, it would have been something on the order of an ex-US army RS-1, and given the size of your railroad in terms of number of industries, would have likely only had one. Odds are, however, the railroad would have only had a single locomotive, and odds are it would have been a small industrial switcher, perhaps with the docksider as a backup for when the diesel was down due to need of major repairs.
ns
ns
MeowRailroad
CKRail
I said it DID interchange traffic, and I just wanted it to be the correct era/somewhat realistic.
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MeowRailroad
CKRail
I believe the brick warehouse is called Long Factory, and I think I will put this on my to-do list to finish. It needs about 10%more scenery/paint, and some interchange portals/yards. sorry for double post
My apologize for misreading your post. If your railroad interchanges with a big connecting line, that line would have operated SD-9's in the late 50's; as to the rest of what I wrote, it is still highly unlikely that your short line would have employed SD-9s, though there were certainly shortline railroads that were sufficiently well heeled that thy purchased new power, but the SD-9 has not generally been considered suitable for switching duties, except in a place like the Lake Superior iron ore docks, or perhaps the coal docks on the Virginia coast.
ns.
Eh, its trainz. The choice between Prototype and Fiction is at the users discretion. If you want to switch your 1-carload/mnth industry at the end of your 2 Mile Short line with a big boy, knock yourself out (No literally, the chances of that actually occurring if you took a big boy up an unprepared short line is actually pretty high, make sure you keep your head INSIDE the cab at all times!).
After that, Prototypically speaking, Mjolnir would be correct. SD-9s were used almost exclusively to replace big steam power on most lines. They were not cheap, more so because being the first real frieght power most lines weren't yet equipped to deal with a stable full of mainline Diesels rather then steam (Its a little different replacing a Head Gasket rather then stripping down a boiler, and a Diesel would just look at the coal and run over it...).
Still, If you like them big 'ol Cadilacs (As SD7/9s were called), lets just say the town has a mysterious benefactor that has a penchant for newer diesels, and his only demand for fronting the cash to buy em was Cab time once a month with his private coach in tow to a little private property 25 miles outside of town ~.^.
Falcus
After that, Prototypically speaking, Mjolnir would be correct. SD-9s were used almost exclusively to replace big steam power on most lines. They were not cheap, more so because being the first real frieght power most lines weren't yet equipped to deal with a stable full of mainline Diesels rather then steam (Its a little different replacing a Head Gasket rather then stripping down a boiler, and a Diesel would just look at the coal and run over it...).
Still, If you like them big 'ol Cadilacs (As SD7/9s were called), lets just say the town has a mysterious benefactor that has a penchant for newer diesels, and his only demand for fronting the cash to buy em was Cab time once a month with his private coach in tow to a little private property 25 miles outside of town ~.^.
Falcus
MeowRailroad
CKRail
Yes, or maybe the railroad has an awesome lemonade stand/bake sale/lawn care service:hehe: And, wouldn't your chances of being knocked out while inside the cab be the same, what with all the levers and gadgets?
Friends,
Whilst looking to help another trainzer, I did find a source for an SD7/9, at bdaneal's website, <http://steammachine.com/bdaneal/files/080710/undec_cab.cdp>. Disclaimer: I have not downloaded it myself, and don't know the what version standards it is compliant with, or how much work would be required to make it compliant with the version in which you wish to operatie it.
Use the information at your own risk.
ns
Whilst looking to help another trainzer, I did find a source for an SD7/9, at bdaneal's website, <http://steammachine.com/bdaneal/files/080710/undec_cab.cdp>. Disclaimer: I have not downloaded it myself, and don't know the what version standards it is compliant with, or how much work would be required to make it compliant with the version in which you wish to operatie it.
Use the information at your own risk.
ns