NOTE: Do NOT sign a Fix Our City campaign (rail related)

[Red_Rattler]

EDIT: That title should read NOTE: Do NOT sign a Fox Our City campaign, IF you support keeping a rail line.

NOTE to administators &/or moderators: I know this may sound political, but it is rail related, and believe it is important.

As some may know, some businesses and developers are attempting to close a piece of rail line that takes passengers to & from the CBD of Newcastle, NSW, Australia.

If you support keeping the heavy rail line to the CBD of Newcastle, I strongy ask that you DO NOT sign anything that is put out by the "Fix Our City" campaign.

The reason is that the Fix Our City (FOC) campaigners do not show on their leaflets that one of their main agenda's is to cut the rail line. To put simply, if a person signs a leaflet, postcard, etc from the FOC campaigners, they are unknowingly signing to support the removal of the above rail line. And this is not made clear on their material. The only clue (in smaller print) is that it is part of the Hunter Development Corporation. Other groups who are trying to save the rail line make it clear what they want.

They [FOC] believe that to "Fix the CBD of Newcastle", that you need to cut the heavy rail line. Some claim it will be left as a transport "corridor", which most highly doubt, as the "A" in this map here, you will see that's where good water views start towards Newcastle station. (eg: valuable real estate for developers). Choose some streetviews, and it becomes clear.


And some others who support removing the rail line want it cut back to a station called Broadmeadow as shown by the "A" in this map.

I will add that a manager of a certain hobby shop (who also SELLS model trains) is on this Fix Our City campaign, and this manager supports removing the heavy rail line.

 

[Sampug394]

...I will add that one managers of a certain hobby shop (who also SELLS model trains) is on this Fix Our City campaign, and this manager supports removing the rail line...

Sounds like hes in it for the Business of Making money, Not for the Love of Railroads...

 

[UP5521]

Not a good idea,but I guess we have to wait and see what happens from this stand point!

 

[SPNGTyler]

Wow, I thot(cant spell this mornin ) Americans were bad when it came to sneaky stuff, but not putting that on there is pretty bad. Railroad wise, I cant think of when thats happened. BUT, id be willing to bet that it has...

Would try to help out but I live a half a world away.

 

[illinoiscentral]

This happens all the time.

Unfortantly, some people just do not see the good things railroads offer.
They only think of the bad, such as noise and the ugly, trashy sight off graffiti, which many neighborhoods view as a downside to their housing market.
They also tend to put up a B.S arguement for "safety".
Which, in all reality they have absolutely no good arguement there, because if people would act safely, and legally, around trains, there generally wouldn't be a safety issue.

Red,
I sincerely hope that this issue is resolved quickly and that the railroad wins this case.


Cheers,
Woody

 

[themnax]

the way to fix cities is not to eliminate rail lines, but to eliminate the private passenger automobile and replace most of ITs functionality with ultra-light rail narrow gauge multiple unit perry people movers or other equivalent clean energy systems. the vast majority of real estate wasted on rights of way and parking for cars could then be turned into parks and other parklike amenities, airshed and wildlife corridors.

i know i'm crazy, but my crazyness is based on making a world at least a little gratifying and enjoyable for everyone, as opposed to the, in my perception far worse insanty, of pandering to the short sighted greed of a few, at the expense of everyone, ultimately and eventually including even themselves.

i wish your city luck in overcoming this ongoing assault of brutalization upon the planet.

 

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

The reason is that the Fix Our City (FOC) campaigners do not show on their leaflets that one of their main agenda's is to cut the rail line. To put simply, if a person signs a leaflet, postcard, etc from the FOC campaigners, they are unknowingly signing to support the removal of the above rail line. And this is not made clear on their material. The only clue (in smaller print) is that it is part of the Hunter Development Corporation. Other groups who are trying to save the rail line make it clear what they want.

I would claim that it is starting to become deceptive and thus start looking at legal advice. Ok, I don't know what the law is on the small print, but it smells very deceptive to me.

EDIT: Have you thought about exposing the small print in the press? It sounds soo much that they only want you to support it if you look at the big picture and thus not the small print, inducing negative press is a good way to bring a campaign down and thus an end to this, although negative press is a tool that shouldn't be used lightly or without warning.

 

[Red_Rattler]

EDIT: Have you thought about exposing the small print in the press?

And guess what the main media support?

Do the streetviews show why "some" developer$ would like to use the rail land?

I'll post some other information related to the topic later & will clarify something later.

 

[UP5521]

way out of line!

This happens all the time.

Unfortantly, some people just do not see the good things railroads offer.
They only think of the bad, such as noise and the ugly, trashy sight off graffiti, which many neighborhoods view as a downside to their housing market.
They also tend to put up a B.S arguement for "safety".
Which, in all reality they have absolutely no good arguement there, because if people would act safely, and legally, around trains, there generally wouldn't be a safety issue.

Red,
I sincerely hope that this issue is resolved quickly and that the railroad wins this case.


Cheers,
Woody

Agreed,this whole thing does not make any sense and from what I'm looking at,I would be annoyed myself and yes, I hope the railroad wins this battle,sure I understand the safety issue but this is way out of line!:n:

 

[JCitron]

This is way too familiar, Red and apparently it happens worldwide. I thought only the YUPPYs and NIMBYs existed in the US and in New England! We've fought a few of these things up my way with little results. For some reason the powers to be have the the ear for the $$$ being contributed, but pay little attention to the nay sayers on the side. The contractors are paying the FOC quite well, drumming all kinds of pseudo-support for the project, and selling big buying big ads in the media. No wonder the local media is in favor of the project.

In the end, the city will have nothing but heavy traffic, and then someone will have a big idea to spend billions of dollars to build a rail line again. This happened already in a few places, and is happning now where I live. In Cambridge, Medford, and Somerville, there used to be a trolley line that ran from Lechmere Square all the way to Medford Square. During the 1950s, the line was ripped up, except for the Lechmere end. Well, 50+ years later, the local transit authority is doing studies about running the trolley cars up to Medford again!

Another line that got trashed recently was the Watertown line. This ran from Brighton to Watertown Square as a branch off of the Beacon Street/Commonwealth Avenue line in Boston. After many years of being idled due to a pro-bus administration, the "T" ripped up the tracks without even a notice. There were groups attempting to restore the badly needed service, but of course they were ignored. The reason, the so-called majority complained about the noise the trolley cars make. What noise? The honking of horns, and pollution is worse from the traffic on the crowded streets. The same thing happened on the idled Arborway line. The commitees are against it, but the residents except for a few of the sqawky NIMBYs, who threaten to sue everyone, and happen to hire big lawyers they put on the committees, are for the line. In the mean time, the project lies idle and has been for many years since.

The problem is people with money do not have to live with the end results that they create. Many of the developers aren't even from the area, and once the project is built, they'll disappear as fast as the buildings go up and the tracks are gone. This happened to the small city of Belfast, Maine. There was, or is a small shortline called the Belfast and Moosehead Lake. They hauled some freight, but mostly tourists from the scenic inland to the shore. They were hurting, and needed some badly needed funding to clean up their ROW and make a go at it again. The big-wigs in the city got the brainy idea, or as I should say, some brainy developer saw the small dock and yard along the bay, and convinced the city that they needed condos and fancy houes along the shore. Well the railroad was scuttled from the city, leaving an empty ROW, and guess what? The developer went bust before anything was built. There is now an empty ROW with a few old yard buildings, but no track and everything is trashy looking. The liitle B&ML is now operating at their upper end of their line, but will most likely never see Belfast again even though the ROW is there waiting for fresh rails.



John

 

[Red_Rattler]

Still having some submitting problems at the moment after the forum went down for a while, have to continue later.

 

[Red_Rattler]

Right on queue & NOTE for Wessex_Electric_Nutter

Right on queue & A quote from Wessex_Electric_Nutter

Right on queue: http://www.theherald.com.au/news/lo...e-pollies-urged-to-band-together/1712632.aspx

I can predict 100% that go to the comments and you will see a username of Jenny, who mainly just copies & pastes with slight modifications claiming that all rail is outdated and needs to be closed. This user Jenny will do this in EVERY thread that is about the Newcastle Rail Line.

EDIT: Have you thought about exposing the small print in the press?

Click the link, and you will see what side the media is on.

Note who the spokeman for the Fix Our City is - he is a developer, and extremely keen to cut the rail line. Why? As the ABBA song titled "MONEY, MONEY, MONEY" And isn't interesting that the water views start from Wickham towards Newcastle Station.

I wrote:

The reason is that the Fix Our City (FOC) campaigners do not show on their leaflets that one of their main agenda's is to cut the rail line.

See what I mean by the above link, although they do mention that they want the rail line cut, nowhere in their postcards or material where people sign, does it mention that they will be supporting cutting the rail, if they sign or send the FOC material to the government.

EDIT NOTE (As I was having trouble a few posts ago): I would like to clarify that a certain shop manager supports cutting the heavy rail line and terminate it at Wickham. So some may support terminating the heavy rail line at elsewhere, and claim they want to convert it to light rail. But that idea is still cutting off the main station.

 

[JCitron]

Try brigning this issue to a national paper instead of the local blokes. The national paper will have less of an subjective stance on local issues, and will more likely to do some investigative reporting.

Local issues at the local level are so difficult to fight because of the close ties of money. We fought a few issues where I live, but the end result was nearly the same in all. The people with the most money won.

John

 

[mitch456yui]

I think the 'Fix Our City' campaign relates to rail being 'un-reliable'.
In my opinion this is not true. My dad used to work at the dairy factory in my hometown, he said, QUOTE: Rail is still pretty, erm, good for moving goods. They used to bring the milk in to the site on trucks from farms. Then they'd manufacture some of it, and load it onto the railway vans and load some onto the rail tankers, raw. Then in the late 80's rail was unionised this may not sound bad but, when it was under the wing of the Workers Union, they were endorsed to go on strike. Since it was a government railway, NSWGR, the rail blokes were paid by the government to get back on the job. But due to constant striking, their wages were brought up by government money, but productivity slumped. So, the milk would sit in the rail tankers at the yards at the dairy factories, and go rotten. Instead of losing money paying the railway, the dairy factories lifted the tanks off the rail wagons with cranes and plomp them on the road trucks ! This tank was around 60t, sitting on a twin axle flatbed trailer:hehe: ! Thats when the RTA, Road and Traffic Authority, came in and put laws regulating weights on trucks.
I'm not sure how railways lost out in other types of freights and different countries but that was the time when rail lost out to roads in the milk industry in Australia, railwaymen lost their jobs, complained, and decieded to vote for the Liberal party, since unions were linked with Labour.:hehe:
Thats the sad truth of it all, rail wasn't slow, in Australia anyway, just linked with a Union.

Thought that was worth sharing. I live in the same region as Newcastle, so I'm pretty concerned about 'fixing:n:' the city by removal of rail. How is that going to help anyway? I think what Bulgy the double decker bus said in 'Oliver the Western Engine' is coming true. QUOTE: "Railways 'll be ripped up. Cars 'nd coaches 'll trample their remains.'
Not a nice bloke...

Thanks
Mitch

 

[LVman]

If you don't mind me dropping my 2 cents into this discussion, but isn't the land they want to develope right next to a Port? I mean, its not like they're going to get any better views with the train's gone, and ships coming in and out. Then the NIMBYs will whine, and cry, and moan about the ships and try to have the port closed.
This whole idea is a crock of horse s*** anyway. Its just another group of people trying to make a quick buck, and leave. Crooked people is what they are.

 

[marinemania]

Yah?!?!?!? thats not really that good But this probelm should be explained to the local news paper that if they remove the heavy rail then how will they get the big rolls of paper to the presses, plus there must be something in the law that limit the amount heavy commercial trucks that enter that cities in australia. In the US we've got a worst problem on abondoned mainlines there storing the autorack on those tracks because the yard are filled and keep on filling with those big yellow towers I don't live next to an abandoned railroad(but near an active one) but still these thing are a real problem building up. I would love to help in the campagin but I live half way across the world.
But still I'm sinded with the railroad, they tie countries together like in europe.

mrinemania

 

[mitch456yui]

Hi,
Just looked at the map. Sorry about yelling, but, HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO GET TO THE CBD?! I'm certainly NOT riding in a crowded bus full of people that find it too hard to put on deodorant! I'd rather go the QUICKER way! Instead of stopping at every spot where a person wants to get off.
Red_Rattler, put your opinion into the press, save that rail line.

Maybe a bit off topic here but. What should have been done with the WHOLE COUNTRY is instead of building highways and freeways everywhere, they should have built 4 track mainlines, 1 for passenger each way, with around 180kmh speed limits. And 1 for freight each way, with around 115kmh speed limits. With junctions which go into stations at towns. A yards out near the mainline at cities so freight trains can quickly and efficiently decouple the train they are pulling and go straight onto another. Then shunters and switchers break the consist down and take it into the city, where it is needed.

My opinion, possibly an easier way that a new prime minister (not Kevin Rudd, he's done enough damage) can 'Fix our country, the proper way'

Thanks and good luck saving Newcastle,
Mitch

 

[FlyingScottmond]

I certainly disagree with Mitch! Kevin Rudd is absolutly cruising. If you paid close enough attention, you would notice that he is for not tearing down anything historical but he would take down out dated systems.
A good example is he is removing all analogue TV from the nation and going digital, but if it were something like the Kingaroy peanut factory, he is at the moment giving funding to it.(John Howard wanted the peanut silo used for a water tower in a publicity act!)

 

[mitch456yui]

Well, thats your opinion mate , I can't take that away from you. We all have our beliefs.

Thanks
Mitch

 

[Red_Rattler]

Hi,
Just looked at the map. Sorry about yelling, but, HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO GET TO THE CBD?!

As stated previously the developers see the rail land as $$$$$ so they want everyone to get out at Wickham (they would like the terminus to be at Broadmeadow), and change to buses. And a former transport minister Michael Costa (a former engine observer or similar) said that existing buses will be enough. Choose the bus TIMETABLE tab here and see in most cases, what the frequency now is.

Red_Rattler, put your opinion into the press, save that rail line.

While they do put SOME letters in about saving the heavy rail line, the media is in support of removing the rail line.

My opinion, possibly an easier way that a new prime minister (not Kevin Rudd, he's done enough damage) can 'Fix our country, the proper way'

It's a state government (not the federal government) issue. Even in most cases when most lines in NSW are leased by ARTC (& are maintained by ARTC), they are still the responsibility of the state government.