Northern Arizona Route
- Thread starter GNdome55
- Start date
Thanks for the comments Joe, kamran and Bob.
Some route info:
Another unfortunate thing for Mac users is not being able to download USGS maps or import DEM files into Trainz. Through a map utility and Photoshop I have just completed my own hybrid maps with accurate track and elevations with board placement for my route. My plan was to do Flagstaff to Lupton Arizona. That’s almost 170 miles. Why Lupton? Great rock formations and it’s near the state line. Gallup New Mexico would make more sense but I’m a long way from doing that part of the route. The good news is I plan on a more accurate route. I’m looking at a scale of one board = .75 miles. Even at that, Flagstaff to Winslow will be about 250 boards. The bad news is what I have done up to now looks good as far as terrain but is not really accurate as far as track layout. I like what I’ve done and I’ve learned a lot as far as techniques and route building. It makes more sense to start a new route from Flagstaff to Winslow for now. As far as scale I looked at 50% but that seemed a little too condensed. Even with accurate track layout I will scale down mountains and improvise with some terrain features to keep it visually interesting.
I’m really making progress on this restart of my Northern Arizona Route as I have moved from “am I crazy?” to “maybe this isn’t a bad Idea” in my thinking. One of these days I may even find the courage to push the create new route button in surveyor.
Gordon
Some route info:
Another unfortunate thing for Mac users is not being able to download USGS maps or import DEM files into Trainz. Through a map utility and Photoshop I have just completed my own hybrid maps with accurate track and elevations with board placement for my route. My plan was to do Flagstaff to Lupton Arizona. That’s almost 170 miles. Why Lupton? Great rock formations and it’s near the state line. Gallup New Mexico would make more sense but I’m a long way from doing that part of the route. The good news is I plan on a more accurate route. I’m looking at a scale of one board = .75 miles. Even at that, Flagstaff to Winslow will be about 250 boards. The bad news is what I have done up to now looks good as far as terrain but is not really accurate as far as track layout. I like what I’ve done and I’ve learned a lot as far as techniques and route building. It makes more sense to start a new route from Flagstaff to Winslow for now. As far as scale I looked at 50% but that seemed a little too condensed. Even with accurate track layout I will scale down mountains and improvise with some terrain features to keep it visually interesting.
I’m really making progress on this restart of my Northern Arizona Route as I have moved from “am I crazy?” to “maybe this isn’t a bad Idea” in my thinking. One of these days I may even find the courage to push the create new route button in surveyor.
Gordon
Last edited:
acelejalde
Urban Transit Developers
I haven't traveled outside Phoenix before, only as far west as Surprise, paralleling the BNSF tracks---so I am really looking forward to this route. But, to prevent myself from jumping too far ahead--in the immediate future, I continue to look forward to excellent screens and updates. Keep up the excellent work Gordon--this is amazing!! 
Thank you acelejalde.
After really taking a look at all the work I’ve completed on my route I’ve decided not to start over. I’m going to layout the track from the western part of my route to Winslow and on to Flagstaff. Once I get all that done I’ll start working on Flagstaff. So it’s a little inaccurate around Holbrook. It’s going to be a lot of baseboard and track work for a while. I’ll get some screenshots up when I get something done on Flagstaff. I’m looking forward to working on that. I’m wondering if any of you more experienced route builders have any thoughts or suggestions on my plan to scale this route down a bit. Doing this big of a route is all new to me.
Gordon
After really taking a look at all the work I’ve completed on my route I’ve decided not to start over. I’m going to layout the track from the western part of my route to Winslow and on to Flagstaff. Once I get all that done I’ll start working on Flagstaff. So it’s a little inaccurate around Holbrook. It’s going to be a lot of baseboard and track work for a while. I’ll get some screenshots up when I get something done on Flagstaff. I’m looking forward to working on that. I’m wondering if any of you more experienced route builders have any thoughts or suggestions on my plan to scale this route down a bit. Doing this big of a route is all new to me.
Gordon
socalwb909
Photo Creator
^^^ Really? He just said he's starting over! 
-Joe
-Joe
If 50% compression is too much overall, I suppose you are going to have to pick and choose where the compression is applied. Assuming those push pins are important towns or sidings, (map is too small for me to be sure), you may have to vary the compression to where you see fit, 50% where you have more space, and 25% where you don't.
Thanks Euphod, I like that Idea. This route in real life has some areas with miles of, I hate to say, some boring and bleak desert plateau. I think I’ll cut down to 50% on some of those areas. The maps I put up were just my reference maps for how I’m going to place baseboards. The pushpins were just track markers because my elevation map doesn’t show tracks. When I work on each section I have better map detail including yards. I’m just about ready to start laying out everything west of my existing work.
Gordon
I'm sure it's nothing you hadn't already considered. I've given much thought to routes over the years, and prototypical is fine, but... a) What a chore! and b) Can be boring!
So you can make the most protoypical map ever and still be dissatified with it, unless you're going to make all the exact buildings and landmarks and flora and use them. Even then you'll be able to find fault with your creation, so why not dispense with that goal all together? I would rather use a route that presents the flavor of the area, with some interesting scenes that may mimic the original, but is not so real as to contain miles and miles of tediously boring landscape. I predict a route that is entertaining, attractive, and offers good operations will be better received than one that is absolutely perfect. I also believe such a route can become a Multi Player favorite too!
You have such a talent and a keen eye for the landscape, I'd hate to see that wasted on miles of unremarkable trackage. Of course, you're still in control, you can still insert the miles where you want, and juxtapose them with the impressive areas. In effect, you can control the user's emotional response to a certain degree. I look at it as an art form similar to a good movie in that you can punctuate the norm with outstanding, surprising, or just really cleverly beautiful vignettes. The user then takes an emotional journey, and is constantly satisfied time and time again from beginning to end.
But I digress...
So you can make the most protoypical map ever and still be dissatified with it, unless you're going to make all the exact buildings and landmarks and flora and use them. Even then you'll be able to find fault with your creation, so why not dispense with that goal all together? I would rather use a route that presents the flavor of the area, with some interesting scenes that may mimic the original, but is not so real as to contain miles and miles of tediously boring landscape. I predict a route that is entertaining, attractive, and offers good operations will be better received than one that is absolutely perfect. I also believe such a route can become a Multi Player favorite too!
You have such a talent and a keen eye for the landscape, I'd hate to see that wasted on miles of unremarkable trackage. Of course, you're still in control, you can still insert the miles where you want, and juxtapose them with the impressive areas. In effect, you can control the user's emotional response to a certain degree. I look at it as an art form similar to a good movie in that you can punctuate the norm with outstanding, surprising, or just really cleverly beautiful vignettes. The user then takes an emotional journey, and is constantly satisfied time and time again from beginning to end.
But I digress...
Wow....I got started on my Mac with Trainz UTC, upgraded to 2009, and then 2010 using Boot Camp and use TransDEM. That has been a big reason for me to not have made the switch to the Mac version of Trainz. I love what you've done so far and wish you well with this project of yours. It looks great!!!
---Scott
Thank you Euphod for those words. I really do appreciate that. Wow! I wish I could write like that! So well put! I also agree with your viewpoint. Just as in model railroading we all have different interest in how we enjoy the hobby. Some like to build and kit bash, some like to run operational layouts on a schedule and others like just watching trains run through a route. I was concerned that if I started mapping this out mile for mile that I’d get overwhelmed with the process. I think I’m going to continue doing this route the way I do best and that is, to have fun creating a believable interpretation of northern Arizona. I’ll try to get some of the towns and yards as accurate as possible with what I have to work with. I’ll scale down a lot of the wide-open areas. There must to be some kind of term for what has been ailing me the last couple of weeks. Maybe, “mid route crisis” or “map anxiety”. It’s time to get back to the route. I might even get some actual screenshots up again.
Gordon
Thanks Scott, Maybe someone knows otherwise about DEM files and TS Mac but that’s what I understand.
Gordon
Aside from the fact that I've been really busy lately with work, school, and buying a house, that is the biggest issue I ran into with my Mon Valley Pennsylvania route. I built my DEM for the route at about 35 miles long. I decided I wanted one of the mega-coal mines on the route, so I merged in an additional 25 mile branch line DEM. Some days when I sit and work on the route, I look at the mini-map and get discouraged at how overwhelming it is and think that I'll never finish it, but I have to sit back and think about the fact that it is not about reaching the destination (finishing the route) as much as it is the enjoying journey (building the route for the entertainment of building). Remember, you are doing this for you, not for anyone else. When (or IF) the route is finished, the added benefit is that others get to enjoy the route. Do what YOU want with it.
---Scott
Thanks Scott, I appreciate your insight on route building. I think I’m just going to quick worrying about the time it will take and just focus what I’m working on.
This weekend I placed quite a few baseboards and did track work heading west towards Flagstaff. I was working on Joseph City, which is east of Winslow. I started work on a yard that runs along a man made lake. As I was looking at aerial photos I realized that a big coal power plant is there. The yard and the lake are part of it. I’m not going to start on the power plant until I can get better reference on it. It’s going to be an interesting area to do. I decided to do the lake today. Here are a couple of work in progress shots of Cholla Lake. It has levees and a canal that has something to do with the coal plant. I also put in Joe’s BNSF warbonnet dash 8. Thanks Joe and Jointed Rail, great work as always!
Gordon
This weekend I placed quite a few baseboards and did track work heading west towards Flagstaff. I was working on Joseph City, which is east of Winslow. I started work on a yard that runs along a man made lake. As I was looking at aerial photos I realized that a big coal power plant is there. The yard and the lake are part of it. I’m not going to start on the power plant until I can get better reference on it. It’s going to be an interesting area to do. I decided to do the lake today. Here are a couple of work in progress shots of Cholla Lake. It has levees and a canal that has something to do with the coal plant. I also put in Joe’s BNSF warbonnet dash 8. Thanks Joe and Jointed Rail, great work as always!
Gordon
JamesMoody
Trainz Team
What stops this at the moment? What's missing from the content management program for Mac? I'm assured it can create new assets and open existing assets for edit, which should be all you need? Everything else can be done with a basic text editor and a paint program.
Trainz doesn't have native support for DEM terrain on any platform - so Mac users shouldn't be at any specific disadvantage from a trainz perspective.
If you already have bootcamp, you can run the 3rd party tools which work with DEM data. I can't see a reason the Mac version of trainz wouldn't be able to use whatever these tools generate in the same way the Windows version can. (Although the exact names of tools may vary from the Windows version).
The issue with the DEM's is that TransDEM is Windows only. For a Trainz Mac user, the issue is similar to what I have going on: I have Photoshop for the Mac, so if I want to reskin something (since all of my Trainz "world" is on Windows in Boot Camp), I need to open the asset while in Windows, then reboot to do what I want on MacOS in Photoshop, then reboot back to Windows to use Trainz and try out my reskin. Conversely, a Mac Trainz person would have to reboot to Windows to use TransDEM under Windows, then reboot back to MacOS to do whatever they want to do with the route they built. I've tried using Parallels, but I wasn't really happy with it. It was VERY laggy.
---Scott
JamesMoody
Trainz Team
Ah, so it's a 3rd party tool issue - not a specific problem with the Mac version of Trainz. Fair enough.
That doesn't explain why someone with Trainz Mac apparently can't reskin something though - all the tools for reskinning should be available for MacOS for that case...
Not having the Mac version, I can't say from experience. I do remember reading that there are issues with the Mac version of Content Manager. I can't remember what it was though. Maybe it can't open assets for editing? IF it can open assets for editing, certainly someone should be able to reskin assets. I don't believe it has CCP, but everything I've read about CCP has said that it sucks anyway, so I've always edited configs in Note Pad anyhow. Again, as long as assets can be opened for editing, Text Edit on the Mac should work for changing configs too.
---Scott
---Scott
@ James Moody, at less than a year into this I’ve misunderstood some things that I thought were TS Mac issues. Most of the time it’s simply that I’m still in the learning process with Trainz. I look forward to trying to reskin. As Scott has pointed out the DEM issue has to do with third party software being Windows only. For now I’m satisfied with my work around system for mapping.
I have nearly completed The Cholla Power Plant in Joseph City Arizona. I still have to figure out the rate settings on the coal unloader I’m using. This is my first working industry in Trainz. I laid this out pretty close the real thing including the ash pond, yard, track loop and Cholla lake. Obviously I improvised the plant with all the doodads and thingamajigs I could find to make this look real. The way I designed this it couldn’t possibly generate one watt of electricity. It sure sends a lot of smoke into the air just like the real plant. I now recall that Cholla was one of the coal plants in Northern Arizona that’s blamed for causing a haze in the Grand Canyon. BNSF transports the coal from a mine in New Mexico. The BNSF Bethgons are by Joe. I’m not sure if APS has there own coal hoppers.
Gordon
I have nearly completed The Cholla Power Plant in Joseph City Arizona. I still have to figure out the rate settings on the coal unloader I’m using. This is my first working industry in Trainz. I laid this out pretty close the real thing including the ash pond, yard, track loop and Cholla lake. Obviously I improvised the plant with all the doodads and thingamajigs I could find to make this look real. The way I designed this it couldn’t possibly generate one watt of electricity. It sure sends a lot of smoke into the air just like the real plant. I now recall that Cholla was one of the coal plants in Northern Arizona that’s blamed for causing a haze in the Grand Canyon. BNSF transports the coal from a mine in New Mexico. The BNSF Bethgons are by Joe. I’m not sure if APS has there own coal hoppers.
Gordon
