N3V Please give some insights on this TRS22 issue

[MSGSapper]

N3V could you please weigh in with your insights on this TRS22 content development issue at the following forum post:

https://forums.auran.com/threads/blender-trainz-rigged-person-animation-issue.175623/

Thank you!

Bob

 

[MSGSapper]

Oh well, no answer so far. I have tried eevrything I can think of, and ran the past a few folks much smarter then me, and no dice on fixing it. Until I get pointed in the right direction to understand what is happening here and why, and how to fix it, I guess there won't be a new line of high quality animated people for TRS22.

 

[Forester1]

It may take a while for them to look at it and try to figure it out. They may need one of your samples, but I don't recommend uploading it to the DLS. Hopefully you will get a request through some other means.

 

[MSGSapper]

Bump.....

Oh Trainz gods please hear my plea.

Bob

 

[MSGSapper]

bump.....trying to get their attention once more

 

[PhilChorusch01]

Is your characters animation set to Linear in the graph editor? Make sure it's set to linear for all frames.

 

[MSGSapper]

Is your characters animation set to Linear in the graph editor? Make sure it's set to linear for all frames.

Thanks for the reply and suggestion. I tried setting all frames to linear extrapolation in Blender as you suggested and ended up with even more distortion when the animation was run.

Did you get something different when you downloaded my provided Blender source file and tried it out with what you suggested?

Bob

 

[PhilChorusch01]

Thanks for the reply and suggestion. I tried setting all frames to linear extrapolation in Blender as you suggested and ended up with even more distortion when the animation was run.

Did you get something different when you downloaded my provided Blender source file and tried it out with what you suggested?

Bob

Hi Bob,

I haven't downloaded your model source file! But I had made a mistake forgetting to convert animation frames to linear before exporting to TSC.
So far, I haven't worked out how to export models into Trainz yet...

Have you checked and reset all objects rotation and scaling? All scale units must read '1.000' X, Y, Z if one of these are out of scale, it could cause a lot of issues.
Other than that, I have absolutely no idea

You may have to, optionally 'of course'! Static your characters arm holding his phone in position, while walking around.

 

[PhilChorusch01]

I just downloaded your character.

Nothing is wrong with your overall bone structure or animation. Looks like you already had your animation set to linear!
I was looking at the modifiers for 'susie_lp.001' and noticed that you have 'vertex group' enabled, I don't see any vertex groups, I would suggest disabling this option and enable 'Bone Envelopes' then export to trainz

Let us know if that helps Fingers crossed

 

[MSGSapper]

I just downloaded your character.

Nothing is wrong with your overall bone structure or animation. Looks like you already had your animation set to linear!
I was looking at the modifiers for 'susie_lp.001' and noticed that you have 'vertex group' enabled, I don't see any vertex groups, I would suggest disabling this option and enable 'Bone Envelopes' then export to trainz

Let us know if that helps Fingers crossed

No, that did not work. I tried it and the figure just stood in one spot in a T-Pose and was not animated. What was the result you got when you tried it first?

Bob

 

[MSGSapper]

Hi Bob,

I haven't downloaded your model source file! But I had made a mistake forgetting to convert animation frames to linear before exporting to TSC.
So far, I haven't worked out how to export models into Trainz yet...

Have you checked and reset all objects rotation and scaling? All scale units must read '1.000' X, Y, Z if one of these are out of scale, it could cause a lot of issues.
Other than that, I have absolutely no idea

You may have to, optionally 'of course'! Static your characters arm holding his phone in position, while walking around.

I appreciate the attempt to help me and thanks.

All scale units are already set to 1.000 for x/y/z.

Bob

 

[PhilChorusch01]

No, that did not work. I tried it and the figure just stood in one spot in a T-Pose and was not animated. What was the result you got when you tried it first?

Bob

I am thinking that it's something to do with the bones structure. I can't remember how I did it! But somehow, I made the bone armature faced down in Blender 'not intentionally' so, I think that the bone armature is auto-rotating itself 'facing down' on the ground. I'm not sure if it's a parenting issue from bone - to - bone or something else.. All I can say it is related in Blender and not in Trainz

I could suggest, obtaining the 'Make Human' addon for Blender. It would give you a better bone armature for your character!
Here is the Make Human, youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/@MakeHumanCommunity website link http://www.makehumancommunity.org/

Let us know how you go!

 

[PhilChorusch01]

Here's a useful tutorial of character rigging

This would help you better rig your character and create a proper bone structure You don't need to re-model your character, as I said above I think the problem is caused by your characters current bone structure and rigging! As for everything else, it looks great as far as I can see Hopefully, everything goes well once you have re-created the character armature bones, rigging setup and animation

It should then work correctly in Trainz!

 

[MSGSapper]

I am thinking that it's something to do with the bones structure. I can't remember how I did it! But somehow, I made the bone armature faced down in Blender 'not intentionally' so, I think that the bone armature is auto-rotating itself 'facing down' on the ground. I'm not sure if it's a parenting issue from bone - to - bone or something else.. All I can say it is related in Blender and not in Trainz

I could suggest, obtaining the 'Make Human' addon for Blender. It would give you a better bone armature for your character!
Here is the Make Human, youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/@MakeHumanCommunity website link http://www.makehumancommunity.org/

Let us know how you go!

Phil:

The rigging was done by professionals, and not by me. I only bought the commercial package from them on Blender market. I decided to put in the investment on this because Trainz really needs a new generation of high quality animated people that my routes can use. The existing ones are starting to look rather dated in newer versions of Trainz. Now I am beginning to think I wasted my money on this, as I can't see to get from here to there, and don't have the animation expertise skills to do this myself from scratch. FYI I have tried through trial and error virtually every setting one at a time on and off in Blender regarding armature, bones, pose, etc but with no change to the distortion problem.

As for the rigging, from what I can tell the rigging, which is pretty complex and detailed, appears pretty standard and follows guidelines for how to rig a mesh. The mesh animation works perfectly in Blender, but as you can see from the video I posted on this it gets distorted in Trainz for some reason I cannot get an authoritative answer to from N3V. I have even provided the Blender file and everything else necessary to replicate the issue in Trainz. If only they would look at it and see for themselves.

Unless I get that answer, if I ever do, I guess I will just have to accept the monetary loss on this, give up, and move on.....

For more information on the package I purchased see:

https://blendermarket.com/products/population

Thank you for your attempts to help me.

Bob

 

[PhilChorusch01]

Phil:

The rigging was done by professionals, and not by me. I only bought the commercial package from them on Blender market. I decided to put in the investment on this because Trainz really needs a new generation of high quality animated people that my routes can use. The existing ones are starting to look rather dated in newer versions of Trainz. Now I am beginning to think I wasted my money on this, as I can't see to get from here to there, and don't have the animation expertise skills to do this myself from scratch. FYI I have tried through trial and error virtually every setting one at a time on and off in Blender regarding armature, bones, pose, etc but with no change to the distortion problem.

As for the rigging, from what I can tell the rigging, which is pretty complex and detailed, appears pretty standard and follows guidelines for how to rig a mesh. The mesh animation works perfectly in Blender, but as you can see from the video I posted on this it gets distorted in Trainz for some reason I cannot get an authoritative answer to from N3V. I have even provided the Blender file and everything else necessary to replicate the issue in Trainz. If only they would look at it and see for themselves.

Unless I get that answer, if I ever do, I guess I will just have to accept the monetary loss on this, give up, and move on.....

For more information on the package I purchased see:

https://blendermarket.com/products/population

Thank you for your attempts to help me.

Bob

Bob,

It is illegal to distribute someone else's models without permission. I have purchased some models from Turbosquid only to find out that I'm not even allowed to distribute the models in TS Classic, I got my money back. I would suggest you do the same!

The initial ideal for that pack is to help artist get characters into a 3d scene rendered in Blender and to export into the 3d world of Unreal Engine/Unity, they aren't created for use in games like Trainz, TS Classic or any other simulation game.

The only advice I can give you, use Make Human! These are completely free to use and you can set the characters to low-poly suitable for Trainz and other simulation games. You also get basic rig characters and not too advanced like the one from that package. Trainz only needs basic rigged characters

 

[PhilChorusch01]

If you don't like Make Human, you can also use manuelbastionilab https://mb-lab-community.github.io/MB-Lab.github.io/ similar to Make Human 'Free and Open Source'. Best of all you can use the characters in Trainz with some modifications to the poly count!

 

[MSGSapper]

Bob,

It is illegal to distribute someone else's models without permission. I have purchased some models from Turbosquid only to find out that I'm not even allowed to distribute the models in TS Classic, I got my money back. I would suggest you do the same!

The initial ideal for that pack is to help artist get characters into a 3d scene rendered in Blender and to export into the 3d world of Unreal Engine/Unity, they aren't created for use in games like Trainz, TS Classic or any other simulation game.

The only advice I can give you, use Make Human! These are completely free to use and you can set the characters to low-poly suitable for Trainz and other simulation games. You also get basic rig characters and not too advanced like the one from that package. Trainz only needs basic rigged characters

Phil:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I am not familiar with you or your content on the DLS and am curious about your background in this area. I have been in Trainz almost since the beginning and know many of the Trainz content developers out there, but you are new to me. The questions below reflect that and my desire to know more about your content developer background so I can understand your expertise in this area.

Questions:

(1) Are you from N3V?

(2) Have you made character models for Trainz (animated or not)? I show only ten items on the DLS from you and almost all of them are routes.

(3) Have you personally used "Make Human" to make content for Trainz that is on the DLS?

As for commercial products I only purchase from reputable online places (ie; CGTrader and Blender Market primarily) that allow the products to be licensed for use in simulations and games. After I retired from the U.S. Army I was a software engineer (Trubo Pascal and Delphi) and independent developer who owned his own software company called Digital Logistics (ISV) from 1993-2005 so am rather careful about such things.

Buying any commercial licensed product for Trainz means having to adapt in almost every case from Blender to work in Trainz. Sometimes this can involve a lot of work. Given my background I ahve been rather succesful at it so far, altrhough I have received a lot of geenrous help from other developers out there from time to time - and I am very thabkful for that. I also try to help others wheer I can as you can see from my posting history in the forum

In any case unless I get a definitive answer on this that solves the distortion problem from someone, I will chalk this up to a failed invesment/experiment. I have already invested way too much time into this project that I really don't have and don't want to have to learn another software tool at this point.

In any case thank you for your attempts to help me.

Bob

 

[PhilChorusch01]

Phil:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I am not familiar with you or your content on the DLS and am curious about your background in this area. I have been in Trainz almost since the beginning and know many of the Trainz content developers out there, but you are new to me. The questions below reflect that and my desire to know more about your content developer background so I can understand your expertise in this area.

Questions:

(1) Are you from N3V?

(2) Have you made character models for Trainz (animated or not)? I show only ten items on the DLS from you and almost all of them are routes.

(3) Have you personally used "Make Human" to make content for Trainz that is on the DLS?

As for commercial products I only purchase from reputable online places (ie; CGTrader and Blender Market primarily) that allow the products to be licensed for use in simulations and games. After I retired from the U.S. Army I was a software engineer (Trubo Pascal and Delphi) and independent developer who owned his own software company called Digital Logistics (ISV) from 1993-2005 so am rather careful about such things.

Buying any commercial licensed product for Trainz means having to adapt in almost every case from Blender to work in Trainz. Sometimes this can involve a lot of work. Given my background I ahve been rather succesful at it so far, altrhough I have received a lot of geenrous help from other developers out there from time to time - and I am very thabkful for that. I also try to help others wheer I can as you can see from my posting history in the forum

In any case unless I get a definitive answer on this that solves the distortion problem from someone, I will chalk this up to a failed invesment/experiment. I have already invested way too much time into this project that I really don't have and don't want to have to learn another software tool at this point.

In any case thank you for your attempts to help me.

Bob

I do not work for and ever have worked for NV3 Games!

I haven't ever added any models into Trainz. I have however added rubbish models into MSTS and some models with permission from the respectful authors into TS Classic.

Yes, I have used Make Human including manuelbastionilab. I had plans of creating my own game for Xbox One using Unreal Engine 4, I do like the characters in Make Human better than in manuelbastionilab add-on for Blender. Make Human is basically a separate 3d software, which you would need to export to formats such as obj and fbx to use in Blender or any other 3d modelling application and you can then ideally import the character models into games such as Trainz or any other game you wish.

Turbosquid, is also where you can purchase commercial professional models along with Sketchfab, CGTrader and a few others. I have also purchased an addon for Blender, not on Blender Marketplace but elsewhere as the marketplace is well overpriced in my opinion, reminds me of Dovetail Games having overpriced addons for their games mainly TS Classic. I love Trainz because it's FAIR pricing

I'm not new to Trainz, I have owned Trainz since version 2004/2006 and Ultimate! I just got frustrated with dependencies after dependencies and yep even more dependencies, in my opinion these should be distributed within freeware route archives 'excluding payware assets' of course!

I purchased TANE, TRS19 and TRS22 only this year LOL I came back to the game because of a route by grazlash 'Illawarra South Coast' which got me to purchase TRS19 and of course I had to buy TRS22 for more awesome Australian routes

 

[MSGSapper]

I do not work for and ever have worked for NV3 Games!

I haven't ever added any models into Trainz. I have however added rubbish models into MSTS and some models with permission from the respectful authors into TS Classic.

Yes, I have used Make Human including manuelbastionilab. I had plans of creating my own game for Xbox One using Unreal Engine 4, I do like the characters in Make Human better than in manuelbastionilab add-on for Blender. Make Human is basically a separate 3d software, which you would need to export to formats such as obj and fbx to use in Blender or any other 3d modelling application and you can then ideally import the character models into games such as Trainz or any other game you wish.

Turbosquid, is also where you can purchase commercial professional models along with Sketchfab, CGTrader and a few others. I have also purchased an addon for Blender, not on Blender Marketplace but elsewhere as the marketplace is well overpriced in my opinion, reminds me of Dovetail Games having overpriced addons for their games mainly TS Classic. I love Trainz because it's FAIR pricing

I'm not new to Trainz, I have owned Trainz since version 2004/2006 and Ultimate! I just got frustrated with dependencies after dependencies and yep even more dependencies, in my opinion these should be distributed within freeware route archives 'excluding payware assets' of course!

I purchased TANE, TRS19 and TRS22 only this year LOL I came back to the game because of a route by grazlash 'Illawarra South Coast' which got me to purchase TRS19 and of course I had to buy TRS22 for more awesome Australian routes

Ok, thanks for the information.

Bob

 

[martinvk]

Slightly off topic but do any other existing animated people function, either ones you made or made by others? I just tried my Velocipede on a small test loop and the driver is pumping for all he's worth to keep the vehicle moving. It was made for v2.4 and still works in TRS22PE except that the wheel turn twice as fast as they should - something to eventually fix.