MSTS status?
- Thread starter dricketts
- Start date
OpenRails is the follow-on, but frankly, the choices between Trainz and OR/MSTS is a no-brainer in favor of Trainz. I'm sure he could enjoy both, though. He would also have to recognize that MSTS/OR has a far steeper learning curve if he wants to even so much as place a locomotive on the tracks, let alone build a layout or make content.
Yeah, Microsoft abandoned the whole thing after one incomplete patch in 2002. Advantage to MSTS is most bugs are well known and have community created patches or workarounds, and it was made in the days of Pentium II and Windows 95 so it will run on almost any hardware. Disadvantages, it's so old it's fossilized and no longer available anywhere except amazon and ebay, where they're asking outlandish prices like $100 for used copies. Check the system specs for TS2010 or TS12, if your friend can meet the specs those are the best bang for your buck these days. Open Rails is great stuff, but it's a long way from finished and still requires MSTS ownership since nobody has made a freeware route which doesn't use at least some default MSTS content, and even payware routes use the standard track database and meshes since that's the most difficult part to duplicate without violating the EULA.
cascaderailroad
New member
I got a used/good MSTS disc for $19.95 on Amazon.com last month.
There are still sites that have freeware routes, including the Horseshoe Curve. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ74HEFC1VY&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL3F893B7E0F3D14AC
http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/forum.php
http://www.trainsim.com/forum.htm
There are still sites that have freeware routes, including the Horseshoe Curve. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ74HEFC1VY&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL3F893B7E0F3D14AC
http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/forum.php
http://www.trainsim.com/forum.htm
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enginewhistle
On Hiatus
To me, Trainz has alot more advantages than MSTS does. Trainz is more user-friendly than MSTS since you gotta have a lot of expirience with computer software when it comes to building routes...
Trainz is by far more easier to use and it isn't hard to build routes like in MSTS since you have to get geography data for tiles in the route creator. The one thing that I never liked about MSTS was that alot of the freeware avaliable is just texture files copied from payware items and you need to buy the items before you can use the freeware you downloaded. It just seems very costly to buy routes and train packs just to download freeware locomotives since people like one railroad and then you have to buy a different product with a different railroad just to use free ware. It's just costly for that...
Trainz is by far more easier to use and it isn't hard to build routes like in MSTS since you have to get geography data for tiles in the route creator. The one thing that I never liked about MSTS was that alot of the freeware avaliable is just texture files copied from payware items and you need to buy the items before you can use the freeware you downloaded. It just seems very costly to buy routes and train packs just to download freeware locomotives since people like one railroad and then you have to buy a different product with a different railroad just to use free ware. It's just costly for that...Can I say firstly would fully endorse that view that Trainz is one hang of a lot easier to build than MTS. Not that I am some dummy (I'm Scots so that proves it) but not a deep techy type. The two big projects I am working on would have been a nightmare to do on the other due to the techy and steep learning curve referred to. The majority of home made MTS is devoid of a lot of scenery and it tends to look clunky and spase due to the difficulties of producing such.
Although I had MTS first I came across Trainz by sheer luck and have never looked back. One route I am doing is now historical but existed so that will be something when available can be a living history of what was remarkable in it's real day. And the other is a whole railway system here in GB. Trainz meant I could do these with some respect to both and the fact that Microsft pulled the plug on a version 2 tells you something about that?
Although I had MTS first I came across Trainz by sheer luck and have never looked back. One route I am doing is now historical but existed so that will be something when available can be a living history of what was remarkable in it's real day. And the other is a whole railway system here in GB. Trainz meant I could do these with some respect to both and the fact that Microsft pulled the plug on a version 2 tells you something about that?
MSTS has one huge advantage over Trainz. Its done.
The way you benefit from that is, if you bought a route or train set in, say 2004 or 2006, it still works. You can collect stuff, and know it will continue to function. You can invest time building assets or routes, and know it will continue to live.
No speed trees. No auto-asset replacement. No scavenger hunts. None of Auran's forced obsolescence crap.
The way you benefit from that is, if you bought a route or train set in, say 2004 or 2006, it still works. You can collect stuff, and know it will continue to function. You can invest time building assets or routes, and know it will continue to live.
No speed trees. No auto-asset replacement. No scavenger hunts. None of Auran's forced obsolescence crap.
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To be honest MSTS was has more dedicated model builders especially fallen flags....
Route building ugh a pain in the butt....
Models simple 3 file basically....trainz unforgiving especially to newbees
and reskinners etc... basically not cleanin unwanted files and now 2010 2012 flaggin ya for simple bs.......
MSTS NO control of AI s ya run one train period....
Trainz is more like complicated same time but simple as hell if ya take the time to learn basic functions and yes the CCP is a awesome tool especially now a lot faster...........
FORUMS sheeesh many have theyre opions and same time ya have to take with grain of salt example is things that work ed before may not work now but will if ya spend time to but again the preferences are never ending these days....
but I do see 1/2 the uploaders let it be routes or rolling stock etc.....
dont beta test with others before releasing im guilty of too and same time i look at others stuff and evaluate what works for me as do others per theyre preference MSTS ya cant..........
after a good 5 yrs I will say I figured out pretty much what works and what I need to do to make it work........
But then my preferences are way different from others as I released a second route which I felt very good to my standards but again no one has commented really about it?
My point is I took time to fix objects and mixed and matched em to work in 2010 and that route to work flawlessly for me and others well unless they did the same ya gonna get a bad route for others......
I can only assume right now.........
Dave =)
ps the USYT will be open for beta pretty soon I ll post about it....
gonna try the community thing this time around........
Route building ugh a pain in the butt....
Models simple 3 file basically....trainz unforgiving especially to newbees
and reskinners etc... basically not cleanin unwanted files and now 2010 2012 flaggin ya for simple bs.......
MSTS NO control of AI s ya run one train period....
Trainz is more like complicated same time but simple as hell if ya take the time to learn basic functions and yes the CCP is a awesome tool especially now a lot faster...........
FORUMS sheeesh many have theyre opions and same time ya have to take with grain of salt example is things that work ed before may not work now but will if ya spend time to but again the preferences are never ending these days....
but I do see 1/2 the uploaders let it be routes or rolling stock etc.....
dont beta test with others before releasing im guilty of too and same time i look at others stuff and evaluate what works for me as do others per theyre preference MSTS ya cant..........
after a good 5 yrs I will say I figured out pretty much what works and what I need to do to make it work........
But then my preferences are way different from others as I released a second route which I felt very good to my standards but again no one has commented really about it?
My point is I took time to fix objects and mixed and matched em to work in 2010 and that route to work flawlessly for me and others well unless they did the same ya gonna get a bad route for others......
I can only assume right now.........
Dave =)
ps the USYT will be open for beta pretty soon I ll post about it....
gonna try the community thing this time around........
Actually you CAN run Trainz style activities with AI traffic in MSTS, but it takes an incredible amount of screwing around to make it work at all;
http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showth...!!!!!!!!!!-!!!!!!!!!!!&highlight=interlocking
I'm on the Open Rails development team, and my current project is trying to create a route - in that unholy MSTS route editor of course, since Open Rails hasn't gotten any editors built yet. The hard part is my MSTS PO&N never required Xtracks, so I have no experience working with Xtracks, and since the goal is to create something the end user can run legally without owning a copy of MSTS, I gotta use Xtracks and never use any default MSTS content including the track shapes. That's the main problem right now, hunting thru 18 zillion different Xtracks shapes trying to find the equivalent of the a1t100meter straight section or whatever, getting all that "no extended shape data for" yada yada yada errors. :'( Every time I open the MSTS route editor I remember why I've been looking for a replacement for MSTS for 10 years, makes me appreciate surveyor a lot more despite all the flaws.
http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showth...!!!!!!!!!!-!!!!!!!!!!!&highlight=interlocking
I'm on the Open Rails development team, and my current project is trying to create a route - in that unholy MSTS route editor of course, since Open Rails hasn't gotten any editors built yet. The hard part is my MSTS PO&N never required Xtracks, so I have no experience working with Xtracks, and since the goal is to create something the end user can run legally without owning a copy of MSTS, I gotta use Xtracks and never use any default MSTS content including the track shapes. That's the main problem right now, hunting thru 18 zillion different Xtracks shapes trying to find the equivalent of the a1t100meter straight section or whatever, getting all that "no extended shape data for" yada yada yada errors. :'( Every time I open the MSTS route editor I remember why I've been looking for a replacement for MSTS for 10 years, makes me appreciate surveyor a lot more despite all the flaws.
MSTS was great in its day. There were few things that I liked about it though. The activities editor made setting up train schedules easy. Click on the box next to the destination, and the route is calculated. I have wished for something like that since I started with TRS2004 back in Dec 2004! The click then scroll function for making up a session is really annoying.
The route editor was useless for me in MSTS.
The route editor, like the rest of MSTS was very buggy and would drop to the desktop quite often. This even happened in the aforementioned activity editor as well, and quite often with the rest of the program.
I did purchase some really well made payware routes from Rich Garber and Maple Leaf Tracks. These developers have done amazing things with their custom content and scenario building. Now if we could get them to make the journey over to our community, they would be quite an asset for us.
John
The route editor was useless for me in MSTS.
The route editor, like the rest of MSTS was very buggy and would drop to the desktop quite often. This even happened in the aforementioned activity editor as well, and quite often with the rest of the program.
I did purchase some really well made payware routes from Rich Garber and Maple Leaf Tracks. These developers have done amazing things with their custom content and scenario building. Now if we could get them to make the journey over to our community, they would be quite an asset for us.
John
Well, before you can bring in MSTS content creators they have to like the game - I know most of the MSTS content creators, and they don't like Trainz.
1. Physics - that's the primary reason, and they're wrong about that, in my opinion if you're driving in CAB mode instead of DCC the Trainz physics can be just as realistic as MSTS, and in some cases more realistic.
2. Splined switches - consensus of opinion is that Trainz switches look like they were drawn on cardboard by a drunken gorilla with a broken crayon.
3. JET. From the very beginning Trainz was a jerky slideshow that didn't look half as good as MSTS, while at the same time not running as smoothly on midrange systems. All the tweaks and updating they did to JET over the years hasn't improved anything, for what it displays it still requires too much horsepower to overcome the constant jerk-jerk-jerk. Minimum and even recommended system specs are way too optimistic, I exceed the minimums for TS2009 by quite a bit and still get 10 to 15 FPS at medium settings because the coding is just plain clumsy.
So fix the last two, convince them that the first one is a myth, triple the sales and make MSTS extinct. I've been with the Open Rails dev team since the beginning, not because I think it's a great idea but because of my contributions to MSTS over the years and extensive technical knowledge of how that game works, but in my opinion it's a project that never would have been started if either Trainz or Railworks was an actual IMPROVEMENT over MSTS. They both do SOME things better than MSTS, when they needed to do EVERYTHING better and they fell short.
1. Physics - that's the primary reason, and they're wrong about that, in my opinion if you're driving in CAB mode instead of DCC the Trainz physics can be just as realistic as MSTS, and in some cases more realistic.
2. Splined switches - consensus of opinion is that Trainz switches look like they were drawn on cardboard by a drunken gorilla with a broken crayon.
3. JET. From the very beginning Trainz was a jerky slideshow that didn't look half as good as MSTS, while at the same time not running as smoothly on midrange systems. All the tweaks and updating they did to JET over the years hasn't improved anything, for what it displays it still requires too much horsepower to overcome the constant jerk-jerk-jerk. Minimum and even recommended system specs are way too optimistic, I exceed the minimums for TS2009 by quite a bit and still get 10 to 15 FPS at medium settings because the coding is just plain clumsy.
So fix the last two, convince them that the first one is a myth, triple the sales and make MSTS extinct. I've been with the Open Rails dev team since the beginning, not because I think it's a great idea but because of my contributions to MSTS over the years and extensive technical knowledge of how that game works, but in my opinion it's a project that never would have been started if either Trainz or Railworks was an actual IMPROVEMENT over MSTS. They both do SOME things better than MSTS, when they needed to do EVERYTHING better and they fell short.