Metrolink Train Crash

[nikos1]

Thankfully the UP crew survived.
A repost from the railpics.net forums


All 3 members of the UP crew survived. One is hospitalized (engineer), while the conductor and switch/brakeman are at home with their families.

Metrolink conductor suffered two broken legs.

A real tragedy what happened my thoughts go out to the friends and families of those lost in the crash.

 

[Captain_Collins]

The media has focused almost exclusively on the victims on the Metrolink train, but I was wondering what happened to the UP engineer(s) in the crash. I can find absolutely no mention of this anywhere. How many engineers did the UP have? Did anyone survive? If they did, they would have something to tell.

There is a link on UP's site saying that all three of the UP train crew survived with non-major injuries. Link: http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/2008/cal_accident.shtml

 

[Eboy87]

Mr. Red Rattler, what I'm referring to is cell phone usage. The engineer can and will call the dispatcher on his personal cell phone to obtain track warrants. The article I read in the news about banning cell phone usage made it sound like they wanted to ban them outright (I will search for the article again and post it) for all crew members. I was simply stating reasons why it would be a bad idea to do so. However, there is always the possibility that one can use said cell phone for a purpose other than what it's intended for.

Even so, I'm not sure what the issue you see with my post is, and I mean that in a friendly way, I'm curious what you mean by your post. PM me if you'd like to take this off board.

Disclaimer: I don't work for railroads, I'm just reporting what I see and hear when I'm actually on a train going somewhere, both observing firsthand and listening on the scanner.

 

[cascaderailroad]

It's so funny that someone using an online internet forum would complain that we expect immediate answers - almost immediately after the issue was posted.

But seriously folks, does anyone know what happened to the UP engineer(s)?

You will NOT get immediate answers...what imformation you want WILL NOT be devulged to you any time soon. The investigation is ongoing , and you will NOT be given any information until the NTSB is done. The news will distort the truth, the RR, FRA, NTSB will cover up truths, and the dead engineer will be crucified as a pedofile idiot railfan with mental issues. A reclusive loner with a yard full of dog waste with an ill kept yard. Looks like this rumor is what the media is dreaming up. Don't believe a word of it. And stop speculating. Just because you love trains, doesn't make you an official RR spokesman or NTSB investigator. You know nothing, and the information is on a need to know basis, and strictly you have no God given right for the need to know facts. You are an amature at railroading, and amatures shouldn't speculate, for they do not know the facts, and you will only help spread the lies coverups and rumors.

In 1987 Richard Gates caused a metroliner crash on the Northeast Corridor, in Gunpowder Falls, MD...scores, and scores were killed, hundereds injured. Was there a portable TV onboard playing loudly ? (Never devulged). Was marijuana DUI, and electrical tape over the alerter the cause (never really devulged in full).

So what makes you think you WILL get answers ?

The RR's will never be forced to add all the safety appliances.
And the Government will never fund the RR's.
And accidents like this will happen from time to time.
Get over it...you have no need to know. You are just the Peanut Gallery, and your viewpoints are irrelevant. Do you think, they really care, WHAT you think ?

Qoute [below]: We may be in the "Peanut Gallery", but we aren't as irrelevent as you apparently think we are.]
Fact: YOU (the peanut Gallery) will not get WHAT you want. Why are bridges collapsing, trains crashing, with an infrastucture impending collapse...Congress will not fund these things. The RR's "ARE" their least concern ! And the Peanut Gallery's speculations, viewpoints and possible solutions, and ARE TOTALLY irrelevent ! How many times does Government act on your voice's ? The RR's have always been lacking in equipment and safety, and RR's will not be funded by Congress, and RR's will continue to degress. They do not care what you think, and what you post ! The Peanut Gallery can chatter all it wants, you have no voice on the outcome, (aside from voting in the upcomming election) ! The US railroad industry is a disaster of patched up and jury rigged faulty equipment. The "PC" RR was a "Standing Derailment". And railroads have not improved much since. Until the US has dedicated right of way for passenger only traffic (like other countries do) collisions between freights, and freights and passenger trains will happen. Congress has the US budget earmarked for all their OTHER important prorities, (like their salaries, perks, and pork).

Your upmost question should be with Bombardeer Corp: "Why are the (lightweight) cars capable of telescoping and climb over, in a 40 mph collision" ?
The main defect was the lightweight car impaled itself, climbed over, and telescoped over the Metro locomotive, that had crashed into the UP loco's.
I'm sure the NTSB is reviewing the test results of Bombardeer's anticlimber, and crash worthyness, at Pueblo Test Facility.

And I am not a rootn' tootn' professional RR'er, speculating about conspiracy. I only am wittness to just how bad a shape the US RR's are in. In freight yards, trains rarely get inspected properly. They roll in, get a religeous blessing of a lookover, and are sent on their journey. A quote I once heard: "Why do you care, the train rolled in without derailing, it will roll out again without derailing. If it does derail, it will be hundereds of miles from here, and will be somebody elses jurisdiction and fault. Anything could have happened, blame it on bad trackage. Just pump & dump air test, and check if the pistons apply the brakes. Send it on it's way".

 

[Euphod]

Do you think, they really care, WHAT you think ?

No, but do you think, we really care, what YOU think? Geez buddy, when you're on a soapbox, you're almost as annoying as I am! Okay, we get it, you used to work for a railroad, we are all "amitures" (sic), and amitures shouldn't speculate, (only real live rootin' tootin' professionals can speculate! ) And then insert big conspiracy theory here!

But if you are going to step in among us "amitures" as the big bad professional railroader at least get your facts in line with reality: The accident of which you seem to be speaking of occured in 1987, not 1995 as you say. Sixteen people killed is not "scores and scores" (unless I have completely lost grasp of my Abe Lincoln). The tape over the alerter speaker was Duct Tape...not electrical tape, and Gates tested positive, and admitted to using marijuana.

We may be in the "Peanut Gallery", but we aren't as irrelevent as you apparently think we are.

Thanks so much for assuming the "voice of reason" role in this thread, we sorely needed your guidance.

 

[steamdrivre]

SAN FRANCISCO — Metrolink engineers and train operators across the state of California are no longer allowed to use cell phones while in the cab.


The California Public Utilities Commission voted to temporarily prohibit the personal use of “commercial mobile radio services and devices” by on-duty railroad engineers, brakemen, conductors or rail transit vehicle operators. Personal communications “that take place when the train or transit vehicle is stopped and with the approval of the appropriate management personnel” is allowed, however.


The CPUC determined that this action was needed due to a June 14, 2008, MUNI accident that may have resulted from the inappropriate personal use of a cell phone while operating the train, as well as the recent Metrolink accident in Chatsworth, Calif., which may have been at least partially caused by the inappropriate personal use of a cell phone by the train’s engineer.


The move comes a week after a fatal Metrolink crash that killed 25 people in injured 135 more. The National Transportation Safety Board confirmed that the engineer of the Metrolink commuter train that crashed head-on into a Union Pacific freight train sent and received text messages prior to the crash.


“Because of the possible danger to passengers, the general public, and the railroad workers themselves, prohibiting the personal use of cellular devices is necessary and reasonable,” said CPUC President Michael R. Peevey. He added that there are no existing federal or state laws, rules or regulations prohibiting such inappropriate use of cellular devices.


The CPUC’s Consumer Protection and Safety Division will prepare a proceeding to determine whether this ban on cellular devices, or other measures, should be adopted on a permanent basis.


In 2003, the NTSB recommended the Federal Railroad Administration limit the use of cell phones and other personal wireless devices by railroad operators while on duty.


The ruling was handed down following a May 28, 2002, derailment in which the engineer of a Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) coal train was distracted by a cell phone call when he was supposed to be stopping his train and caused a head-on collision with a BNSF intermodal train. The engineer of the intermodal train was killed in the collision. Damages to the trains and track exceeded $8 million.


“Safety is the primary responsibility of any vehicle operator and this responsibility demands the full and undivided attention of the person at the controls,” then Chairman Ellen Engleman said at the time. “Issuing these recommendations is not enough — implementation is the key.”


– Railfanning.org News Wire

 

[Iced8383]

this is so sad, how there was a train wreck in the southern area of my state.:'''''(

 

[nikos1]

this is so sad, how there was a train wreck in the southern area of my state.:'''''(

in other news: my latest route is doing well, as it was one of the old routes it lost, but it shot out of my computer like a machine gun bullet yesterday.

i remodeled it, and it's looking better then the original.

What does your route at all have to do with this crash?
Your news is insignificant compared to this, why are you posting it in this thread?
Have some respect.

 

[Iced8383]

really nikos, cut it out.

What does your route at all have to do with this crash?
Your news is insignificant compared to this, why are you posting it in this thread?
Have some respect.

i am sick of you taunting me after every one of my posts.

 

[AJ_Fox]

Hey Guys

Take personal discussions outside please.

Cheers

AJ

 

[Red_Rattler]

The first paragraph seems an extreme beat up - as per usual with our so-called various media!

First, disregarding quotes in various forums, isn't it interesting (NOT) that I searched using all of the first paragraph, and over 1,100 entries came up, and in many the exact same article in competing news media, without acknowledging the original writer(s).

Secondly, I'm not sure who wrote the original article, and who copied it, but I'll just use the link below:

Train fans fear LA crash will derail their hobby(1)
By CHRISTINA HOAG
Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- They stand within feet of speeding locomotives, climb signal poles to photograph passing trains and try to befriend conductors and engineers.

Passionate train buffs call themselves railfans, but they are derisively known as "foamers" by critics who say the hobbyists foam at the mouth at the sight of a train while reveling in the minutiae of engine types, timetables and whistle sounds. . . .

. . .Rail companies say they vigorously prosecute trespassers, railfans or not.
Full story click here

So once again, is the media attempting to say that all rail (& transport) fans trespass? And that paragraph claiming that rail fans "climb signal poles", etc to me seems as an extreme beat up.

(1) Now that is odd: The heading is in capitals, but when you copy and paste it, it comes out in lowercase.

 

[jadebullet]

I prefer the term squirrels to foamers. (When they hear a train their little squirrel tail goes poof) Its a PA RR term.

 

[martinvk]

...

“Because of the possible danger to passengers, the general public, and the railroad workers themselves, prohibiting the personal use of cellular devices is necessary and reasonable,” said CPUC President Michael R. Peevey. He added that there are no existing federal or state laws, rules or regulations prohibiting such inappropriate use of cellular devices.

...


– Railfanning.org News Wire

Why do they need a specific law aimed at those exact devices? Wouldn't anything that distracts you from doing your job in a safe manner be punishable? Somehow I doubt crossword puzzles are expressly forbidden but they could also easily distract someone from noticing a red signal. You would need a list a mile long to perhaps cover every objectionable device and object.

 

[JCitron]

Why do they need a specific law aimed at those exact devices? Wouldn't anything that distracts you from doing your job in a safe manner be punishable? Somehow I doubt crossword puzzles are expressly forbidden but they could also easily distract someone from noticing a red signal. You would need a list a mile long to perhaps cover every objectionable device and object.

Martin,

It's because people in the USA have become dumb and require legistlation for everything because people here no longer use common sense and only think of the moment rather than thinking ahead to consequences of their current actions.

This type of behaviour is seen on the highways as well with people texting each other while driving, or even worse watching full-length movies while driving. How dangerous can these actions be? I almost get clipped on my commute by an idiots texting. Last week it was a 20-something girl. She was busy texting and drifting between lanes at 75 mph. All she needed to do is bump into someone and then swerve. She'd end up over compensation in her panic, and then flipping her car over, which in turn would cause a 15 mile back-up due to gawkers.

John

 

[Iced8383]

Oh wow...
I just realized that the lead unit on the UP freight is one of the two UP ACes that captkilljoy skinned. That's kind of creepy, in a way.

they're cursed now!!!!!

 

[Euphod]

Martin,

It's because people in the USA have become dumb and require legistlation for everything because people here no longer use common sense and only think of the moment rather than thinking ahead to consequences of their current actions.

That's half of it; the other half is liability. You see, here in the US no one is personally responsible for anything...it's always the fault of someone or something else. We must have laws like this so we can rule out the responsibility of a person or object in court. If an engineer were to sneeze and miss a signal, then obviously the maker of the cold medicine he was taking is at fault. If he isn't taking any cold medicine, he may be able to place blame on the medicine's maker anyway for not advertising enough during the TV shows he watches.

See how that works?

 

[sfrr]

Would suggest this comment displays crass insensitivity and I'm surprised the mods haven't already removed it (not to mention potentially libellous on behalf of the OP and forum host). What if someone from UP directly or indirectly reads that?

Stick to the known facts and let the professional investigators do their job.

But apart from that, yes terrible accident and vondolences and sympathy go out to all involved.

It was not UP's fault, The engineer of the Metro ignored a red signal.

Best regards,
Mike

 

[brickbuilder711]

The first paragraph seems an extreme beat up - as per usual with our so-called various media!

...

So once again, is the media attempting to say that all rail (& transport) fans trespass? And that paragraph claiming that rail fans "climb signal poles", etc to me seems as an extreme beat up.

I concur.

When I read that paragraph I felt insulted.

To me this seems to be an implication that they think that railfans are not safe or that they do not respect safety. Who are they to imply that railfans love to trespass? On the contrary, railfans watch their train at a safe distance and act as eyes or ears.

As a fan of local railroads, I put safety first.

In fact, FEC actually respects railfans and takes us as eyes and ears! Usually, we railfans report danger or unsafe conditions like crossing malfunctions, trespassers, etc.

In closing, news media must sometimes think before they act.

Anyway, I send my condolences and sympathy for all involved.

 

[jadebullet]

they're cursed now!!!!!

Thats is kinda insensitive dude. Not really a thread for jokes.


And as for UP being the cause of the most train wrecks per year in America. There is a pretty obvious answer for that. UP is one of the largest companies in the USA, if not the largest. Its not hard to realize that if there is a train crash, there is a high chance that UP is involved. It isn't UP's fault that their safety record isn't the best, its the fact that they probably own more locomotives than most companies.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Eaglefan9727]

When I read that paragraph I felt insulted.

To me this seems to be an implication that they think that railfans are not safe or that they do not respect safety. Who are they to imply that railfans love to trespass? On the contrary, railfans watch their train at a safe distance and act as eyes or ears.

As a fan of local railroads, I put safety first.

In fact, FEC actually respects railfans and takes us as eyes and ears! Usually, we railfans report danger or unsafe conditions like crossing malfunctions, trespassers, etc.

In closing, news media must sometimes think before they act.

Anyway, I send my condolences and sympathy for all involved.

While you might be a railfan that puts safety first. There are a number of other railfans that dont and those are the ones that are messing it up for the good guys like yourself and I. Ive seen a number of videos on youtube that you see railfans tresspassing and other stupid things of that sort.

For example, Those kids shouldnt have been texting the engineer at all while he was running the train and that is a prime example of a bad railfan.