i5 vs i7 for Trainz?

E

epa

Angry Trainz Nerd
So the day gets closer, when I finally have the money to buy a MoBo/CPU/RAM combo pack. In an effort to save money, I'm looking at the 6th generation Intel processors, since I understand the 7th generation chips aren't too different. I'm down to two choices for about the same price: Intel i5-6600K with 16GB RAM, or an Intel i7-6700K with 8GB RAM. Alternatively, if I wait another month or two (don't bet on it), I might look into the new AMD Ryzen chips coming out next month.

What do you guys think? What am I losing if I choose the i5 (with 16GB RAM) over the i7 (with only 8GB)? How will the new components perform in T:ANE with my existing hardware (see my sig)? If I wait another week or two and get a 7600K or a 7700K, what do I gain there? If I wait a month or two (again, doubtful), what would I gain with the new Ryzen chips?

Thanks
Matt
 
I am presuming that this is dealing with desktop PC's ... As I am lead to believe that almost all laptops, aside from $2700+ models, will not run Trainz very well, and will overheat sooner or later, and fail
 
A couple of things to consider:
i7 with 8 GB Ram. Add another 8 GB when funds allow, upgrade process very easy and not too expensive.
i5 with 16 GB Ram. You're kind of stuck with this set-up until you can justify a CPU (and possibly a motherboard, depending how far into the future) upgrade.

There are definitely some routes / sessions where you'd benefit from the i7 (although an i5 will be more than adequate for most and it is a good match for your video card). Also, if you are into the latest and greatest game titles, many are now starting to make use of the hyper threading that comes with an i7.

The 6th vs 7th gen question is a separate issue. You won't notice a huge difference in performance so it's really down to how much you can save by sticking with Skylake, versus being on the latest platform.

No-one can give you a definitive answer on Ryzen yet but bear in mind, with computers there will always be something new 'just around the corner.' At some point, you've just gotta take the plunge :).

Hope this helps your thought processes.
John
 
Some of the leaks related to Ryzen look intriguing - especially the leaked pricing indications.
Some encouraging benchmarks are out there too - though it will only be credible once independent, 3rd party tests and analysis are performed on retail Ryzen CPUs (by the likes of Tom's Hardware/ Tech Report/ Anand Tech and 3D Overclock etc.) before making the ultimate AMD vs Intel CPU choice will make sense.
Intel have dominated the enthusiast CPU space for nearly a decade now, and upcoming Coffeelake CPUs are dangling a purported 15% performance improvement over Kabylake - again unsubstantiated by independent testing, 'cos the chips aren't out there yet.

Waiting another month or two to see what the consensus is about Ryzen is probably going to be worthwhile, especially in terms of purchasing confidence.

I'm in the same boat as you. I want to get the best value for money/ bang for buck from my next system upgrade. My current i7 Intel-based system is right up there with the best, but I'm looking to the future. So I'm prepared to wait a little, to see what pans out over the next few months,
We're going to have to live with whatever choice we make soon for maybe a year or two beyond then.
Skylake and Kabylake are proven performers. The jury is still out on the new AMD chips, though they may turn out to be an outstanding price/performance opportunity - IF - they're available in reasonable retail quantities at the release date - AND - independent testing verifies some of the recently released benchmark results we've seen.
 
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epa said:
So the day gets closer, when I finally have the money to buy a MoBo/CPU/RAM combo pack. In an effort to save money, I'm looking at the 6th generation Intel processors, since I understand the 7th generation chips aren't too different. I'm down to two choices for about the same price: Intel i5-6600K with 16GB RAM, or an Intel i7-6700K with 8GB RAM. Alternatively, if I wait another month or two (don't bet on it), I might look into the new AMD Ryzen chips coming out next month.

What do you guys think? What am I losing if I choose the i5 (with 16GB RAM) over the i7 (with only 8GB)? How will the new components perform in T:ANE with my existing hardware (see my sig)? If I wait another week or two and get a 7600K or a 7700K, what do I gain there? If I wait a month or two (again, doubtful), what would I gain with the new Ryzen chips?

Thanks
Matt
Click to expand...

The CPU isn't that important for TANE, having said that the usual bottleneck on a CPU is getting the stuff in and out. The i7 has better caches. It also has hyperthreading which gives you 8 cores rather than 4, 4 are virtual but it all helps.

So start with your budget and see if you can work in a GTX 1060. Once that is in then you can decide on the CPU. 8 gigs / 16 gigs, I don't believe TANE uses more than 4-6 gigs add in a gig for the operating system and anything else is used to heat the room. So 8 gigs is probably enough.

Perhaps someone can run prefmon to see the exact figure.

Cheerio John
 
Skylake v Kabylake, according to the "Experts" other than Kabylake will overclock a bit more there is no real gain in performance. I'm using a 6700K with 16GB of DDR4 plus a GTX980TI which is more than adequate for Trainz TS12 and TANE plus 3dsmax, Transdem, PSP etc.

I'd be inclined to wait on SP2 and see if memory usage remains the same before restricting to 8GB.

Edit: Typo Transposed the CPU!
 
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I have the 6600k with 16GB ram, no complaints with TANE really, combined with a GTX 1060 I get 40-50 frames on the most dense routes :) Decided to spend the difference on a better graphics card
 
The Ryzen is designed to be comparable with the i7-7700 series probably running at 95W TDP. AMD are on record as announcing a talk to take place at the Game Development Conference reportedly saying 'Join AMD Gaming Engineering team members for an introduction to the recently launched AMD Ryzen CPU followed by advanced optimization topics.' This I believe would suggest that the Ryzen could be launched before the end of this month considering the GDC takes place between the 27th Feb until the 3rd Mar 2017. However as other have said graphics are probably the most important consideration when specifying a new system for Trainz; while the Ryzen will require an AM4 chipset motherboard which to date I have yet to see advertised here in the UK anyway. Peter
 
I don't think you will see big difference between i5 and i7. I mean, of course i7 will always be better but I'm not sure if its worth that money. i7 performance is much better when you're rendering videos, using autoCAD and stuff like that. I'd just go for faster SSD, faster ram or better mobo instead of buying i7 . Depends on your budget tho of course...

//Greetings from Sweden!
 
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I play games other than Trainz, so the hyper threading in i7 may be worth the buy there. I just upgraded the GPU so that's not changing anytime soon. As I said in the original post, I'm already fed up with waiting and probably won't consider Ryzen unless my PC is still OOS when those are launched. I currently have 8 GB RAM and everything performs very well with that (or it DID, before the MoBo went south). It's looking more like the i7 with 8 GB is the way to go. Thanks for the input guys.

How's this combo? https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3020932

I currently have 8 GB DDR3 RAM so I can see how the jump up to 8 GB of DDR4 could be a good idea.

UPDATE: I was notified today about the Pentium Anniversary Edition G3258, supposedly being on par with the i7-4790K, however it's only dual core, with no hyperthreading, and it was released in 2014. Apparently it's only good for gaming if it's overclocked, but I'm a little weary about OC'ing, and I'd rather not try it. What do you guys think?

Also, don't buy a prebuilt PC from CyberPowerPC. Outdated (sometimes DOA) parts, bad customer service, just an all-around hassle. But hey, it's a nice case, and a free year of McAfee isn't bad. They're ok to Frankenstein like I'm doing, but I can't recommend them if you plan on using it as-is.

Matt
 
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epa - How's this combo?
Click to expand...
Hard to go wrong with that combo - both proven performers.
Asus make great mobos.

Re. the Pentium Anniversary Edition G3258, supposedly being on par with the i7-4790K, it's not even close. That relates to a report where they overclocked one to achieve a single core result that matched the stock speed of a 4790k.
 
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PC_Ace said:
Re. the Pentium Anniversary Edition G3258, supposedly being on par with the i7-4790K, it's not even close. That relates to a report where they overclocked one to achieve a single core result that matched the stock speed of a 4790k.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction.

Matt
 
The next issue: My current board (Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2) is a micro-ATX board, but I appear to have a full size case. The motherboard I'm looking at is full ATX. Is there any logical reason why the OEM would put a micro-ATX board in a full size case? Should I focus on trying to find another micro-ATX board?

My case is a CyberpowerPC C series, which came with the Cyberpower GUA1000BST model. I'm not sure exactly what model of case it is.

Here's a picture of my computer's guts (click the pic for full size)

Good lord, my GPU is almost as big as the board itself! :hehe:

Also, the i7 apparently doesn't include a heatsink, would my current Cooler Master work on the i7 or should I invest in a new heatsink as well?

Matt
 
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Quite often happens that OEMs put small boards in large cases, bit of a con in my opinion, put inferior parts in a large case and you can charge more as the case makes it look better than it actually is. Probably most customers will never look inside the case until something goes wrong. Stick to an ATX board it will have room / slots / sata ports / m2 slot for expansion.

edit: Just Googled your PC and according to the pictures it should have an ATX board in it!

edit2: I'm using one of these http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/cpu-air-cooler/hyper-212-evo/
 
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epa said:
The next issue: My current board (Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2) is a micro-ATX board, but I appear to have a full size case. The motherboard I'm looking at is full ATX. Is there any logical reason why the OEM would put a micro-ATX board in a full size case? Should I focus on trying to find another micro-ATX board?

Also, the i7 apparently doesn't include a heatsink, would my current Cooler Master work on the i7 or should I invest in a new heatsink as well?
Click to expand...

1. Plenty. If size is of no issue a larger case is always preferable because a) it allows for more airflow, b) it allows for easier cable management, c) it allows for larger components like heatsinks and graphics cards and d) it's just generally less hassle to work with smaller parts in a bigger case. From an OEM perspective it also saves you cost because logically mATX boards are going to cost lesser than full ATX ones. For the average consumer who won't need things like SLI/Crossfire an mATX board provides you everything you need and nothing you don't, upgrade paths aside.

2. The CM HSF in your photo doesn't look to be any bigger than a stock Intel heatsink so while it'll do the job just fine with a solid mount, don't expect great temperatures or any sort of overclocking headroom.
 
You should ideally wait for Ryzen, which is speculated to be released late February / early March. Early engineering sample leaks have suggested similar performance in terms of IPC to Intel, while having a significantly higher core count compared to their Intel SKU equivalent. So for instance an 8 core, 16 thread part available at pricing competitive with an Intel quad core.

Jack
 
LNERlover5 said:
You should ideally wait for Ryzen, which is speculated to be released late February / early March. Early engineering sample leaks have suggested similar performance in terms of IPC to Intel, while having a significantly higher core count compared to their Intel SKU equivalent. So for instance an 8 core, 16 thread part available at pricing competitive with an Intel quad core.

Jack
Click to expand...

Biostar have just released specs for an AM4 motherboard, so looks like Ryzen is getting close latest rumour is the 28th of Feb.

http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=874

Asus have as well, http://hothardware.com/news/asus-ro...-x370-ryzen-motherboard-gets-unboxed-on-video
 
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