how easy is gmax to use???

[martinvk]

It wasn't easy to learn but the only way to learn is by doing. Make an object and then another and another etc. When you get to the point where you just have to imagine an object and then make it, you can say that Gmax is getting easy to use.

The first objects you make should be simple ones. Once you can create boxes with arbitrary texturing, go on to make buildings, towers, and other straight forward mechanical objects. For your first real challenge, add some animation.

You'll know you're ready for more challenges when you can walk down the street, point to a random object and feel confident that you could make one too. Just remember that the most complicated object is made from many simple shapes. It's how you put them together that determines how great it will be.

And then there is texturing. A major challenge in it's own right. Not only applying them properly but making them in the first place. You can find texture libraries of wood, stone, metal etc but eventually you'll need something special and you'll end up creating your own. Your image editor is your friend. Learn its ins and outs to be able to manipulate images at will. A digital camera is a great tool to gather the raw material to create custom made textures.

One day, you'll look back and marvel at how far you've come and then you too and offer sage advice to the next group of aspiring creators.

 

[john259]

Has anyone used Google Sketchup to create models for Trainz?

John

 

[Johnk]

In trying to put together a worthwhile resources directory, I'm watching this thread very closely. There's some excellent advice being thrown around here, but sadly it will be lost forever within the month because of this forum's shocking search facility.

martinvk, you have hit the nail ever so squarely!

Quote: Just remember that the most complicated object is made from many simple shapes. It's how you put them together that determines how great it will be.

Yes indeed, most trainz objects (trees an exception) are made from 3D shapes - cubes, rectangles, balls etc. All the music in the world comes from 12 notes and all the 3D objects in the world can be created will half a dozen shapes or a single triangle.

Both gMax and Blender are far too complicated for Trainz users because we only need about 0.1 percent of each program's power. Having said that, once a model is created with either program, one has to then use other programs to get the model to work in Trainz. The person who coined the phrase Can of Worms must have been a Trainz content creator!

What Trainz needs, and must produce for its own survival, is an internal program that allows the user to easily create content and seamlessly add it to their Trainz layout.

Such a tool would not be difficult to make and even easier to use. In the past I've tried to stir up an interest for such a program to be created by Auran, but my efforts were lost when the old forum was lost. I can't write such a tool, but I surely know how it should work. What I have in mind would be so easy to use it would be a joke. A house or building, even with complex shapes could be made and residing on a layout in 10 minutes, a simple locomotive or freight car within the hour - and I'm not kidding!

Because what I have in mind may raise copyright issues or infringe on existing patents, I can't be specific in someone else's open forum. I am however, prepared to discuss the subject with all interested parties in my own forum which is not commercially linked with any other entity.

If you're interested in becoming the founders of the new Trainz Content Creator software, by all means post your concerns in this thread and let's see if we can get Auran to come up with something (if they're not already doing so unbeknown to us). If you're interested in brainstorming, this is not the place to do it for reasons already mentioned. Let's keep this thread on topic and the forum out of trouble. Once I get a few people interested over at my site, I'll really get the pot boiling.

 

[Johnk]

Has anyone used Google Sketchup to create models for Trainz?

John

John,

This has been raised many times before. The professional version of Sketchup allows you to export to 3dsMax, gMax (I've done it with mixed success) and possibly Blender. I'm not sure it saves any time because the more complex models are the hardest to export.

The free version of Sketchup is restricted to creating images for Google Earth if I'm not mistaken.

 

[paulhobbs]

Such a tool would not be difficult to make and even easier to use. In the past I've tried to stir up an interest for such a program to be created by Auran, but my efforts were lost when the old forum was lost. I can't write such a tool, but I surely know how it should work. What I have in mind would be so easy to use it would be a joke. A house or building, even with complex shapes could be made and residing on a layout in 10 minutes, a simple locomotive or freight car within the hour - and I'm not kidding!

Because what I have in mind may raise copyright issues or infringe on existing patents, I can't be specific in someone else's open forum. I am however, prepared to discuss the subject with all interested parties in my own forum which is not commercially linked with any other entity.

If you're interested in becoming the founders of the new Trainz Content Creator software, by all means post your concerns in this thread and let's see if we can get Auran to come up with something (if they're not already doing so unbeknown to us). If you're interested in brainstorming, this is not the place to do it for reasons already mentioned. Let's keep this thread on topic and the forum out of trouble. Once I get a few people interested over at my site, I'll really get the pot boiling.

I've registered on your Forum, I'd be interested in your idea. I'm fairly sure (having tried something similar), that it won't be quite as easy as you think, but we'll see.

Paul

 

[johnwhelan]

Has anyone used Google Sketchup to create models for Trainz?

John

I think there is a way into Blender that some one used but in the conversion so so many conversions you lose control over the polys and polys are very important to Trainz performance.

Cheerio John

 

[john259]

Fair enough, if there's no direct route from SketchUp to Trainz then it's probably of no use to us.

John

 

[hminky]

Rather than a new program wouldn't a scripted add-on to Blender be easier. It is open source.

The problem I found with Blender tutorials is they are written by users who are exclusively keyboard people. Most of the commands are in the button menus and can be accessed with a mouse. It is easy to get lost with tutorials that depend on a "gazillion" stroke commands. Just read Blender for Dummies, a good reference but difficult to follow. I guess I am beyond Dummy.

When I was learning AutoCad the tutorials were all geared for keyboard input, "real" men didn't need the mouse, so everything was by typed coordinates on the screen. The tutorials were impossible to follow. I learned that the key to drawing with AutoCad was the command "offset". After that it was easy.

I got the "light bulb" moment doing Paul Hobbs' tutorial, which is excellent. A tutorial explaining Blender basics step by step in relation to Trainz would be nice for beginners. Hopefully in the future I will have the skills to do one. Having had authored model train tutorials that people have actually used, a miracle in itself, maybe I will gain the skills to do one for Trainz:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/mogul_tsunami/

All 3d Solid modelers add extra Polys when they are exported to Blender type programs so they don't work for Trainz. I tried modeling in Pro/engineer and exporting it to blender. Extra Polys are added to panels.

Just a thought
Harold

 

[Johnk]

My first experience with Blender was when I watched a few of the video tutorials on my site a couple of days ago. It looked overwhelming, but really, what is the choice? You can stick with gMax, but it's no longer supported:

As of October 16, 2005 AutoDesk Media and Entertainment has discontinued and no longer supports Gmax (Wikipedia)

This must surely mean that Auran can't push gMax any more and that's why I think there's so much talk about 3dsMax, which most of us can't afford and don't want to pirate. Without some kind of 3d design software within the financial reach of the masses, the added graphics feature in TRS2009 will be used by too few and Trainz will suffer as a result. Auran has created a wonderful graphics engine and a very intelligent Surveyor. I don't think it's beyond them to also create a brilliant Asset Designer. Commercial concerns like Auran often don't like going to bed with open source developers such as Blender because it's to difficult to tie things up at both ends. Going it alone is the only solution unless the perfect commercial product comes along. I think that going it alone is the way to go because it will tie up the only loose end and make Trainz a bigger and better program. For my part, an extra $20 for a complete package would be nothing to ask.

 

[martinvk]

...
martinvk, you have hit the nail ever so squarely!

sometimes we're lucky :hehe:

 

[Johnk]

Deleted by author because it responded to the previous post which has since been edited.

 

[narrowgauge]

I could live with Blender if it was possible to drive only with the mouse. My right hand is very dominant, and my left has never learned to press more than one key at a time while my mind does not remember key combinations. Apart from entering coordinates I can go for hours in Gmax without releasing the mouse. I realise that to some users, key combinations are faster but we are not pressing for speed of creation, Blender must suit both ends of the spectrum.

A thought, Blender is open source, would it be possible to 'decomplicate' Blender, removing many functions not needed for Trainz creation, add additional menu commands and create 'Trainz Blender' or 'Trainz Constructor'.

I think it is too early to brush Gmax to one side, it is quite possible for beginners to use Gmax for creation, even for TS2009, for a long time, there will be users of previous versions.

Peter

 

[Johnk]

I don't think anyone is pushing gMax to one side other than by preference. The fact that it's old and unsupported doesn't help much though.

Yes, I'm sure your suggestion about Blender can be done. Take GIMP and GIMPShop for example. Someone came along and changed all the commands to be the same as PhotoShop so that PS users could easily use GIMP. Most kids at school learn on PhotoShop but can't afford it at home, so that was a great idea.

The thing is - who will make the changes? There doesn't seem to be a breakaway group for Blender and that is actually quite odd. In the eCommerce arena, people who couldn't get any satisfaction with osCommerce started different forks. Zen Cart, the program that powers my web site is but one. In many cases the forks or breakaways are often better than the original.

A modified version of Blender would be a good start!

 

[alanti]

Has anyone used Google Sketchup to create models for Trainz?

John

Just about all of my stuff (except for 101927:100372) started out in Sketchup and were then completed and textured in GMax. Sketchup is very good for prototyping buildings, because of the way that it works.

 

[johnwhelan]

I think it is too early to brush Gmax to one side, it is quite possible for beginners to use Gmax for creation, even for TS2009, for a long time, there will be users of previous versions.

Peter

What is puzzling me at the moment is what is so special about TRS2009? We are playing with normal maps and Blender at the moment. We started thinking they would only work in TRS2009 but then we found they work in TC3 and last night we discovered they also work in TRS2004 SP4.

So Blender appears to be more capable than GMAX even for TRS2004. Yes you can do normal maps with GMAX but I think it needs a process and other software to make it work.

Cheerio John

 

[bchester]

What is puzzling me at the moment is what is so special about TRS2009? We are playing with normal maps and Blender at the moment. We started thinking they would only work in TRS2009 but then we found they work in TC3 and last night we discovered they also work in TRS2004 SP4.

So Blender appears to be more capable than GMAX even for TRS2004. Yes you can do normal maps with GMAX but I think it needs a process and other software to make it work.

Cheerio John

Hi John,

You are right about normal maps working in 04. The PB15 that ships with it is a prime example. It is actually referred to as bump mapping on the pb15 and the processes are very slightly different (in fact the terms are very often used interchangably) but the effects work the same. Also for GMax, you need other software to create the normal maps. I had struggled with various applications trying to get bump/normal maps to work in GMax and had very limited success.

I never achieved much with Blender - Stuggled a long time until I found Paul Hobbs tutorials. By that time I had obtained 3ds Max and normal baking is superb.

Personally, if you want to create normal / bump maps, I would strongly recommend not using GMax.

Bricey

 

[martinvk]

What I do in Gmax is use textures with a premade normal map. Each new texture I make is saved as a grey scale image and then passed through PhotoShop Elements to convert it to a normal map. Then that texture with its associated normal map is used to texture my object. A bit backwards from the normal way of doing things but for simple objects, it works for me. Baking a detailed normal map and then applying it to a low detail object is not on. At least I've not learned how with the tools I have available.

 

[class1987]

what do the splines do on gmax anyway iv never fathumd that out

 

[sparky15]

www.cdschools.org/54223045235521/blank/browse.asp?

Some good tutorials here for Blender. Broken down into small classroom type blocks and sample files.

I have Carrara 3D Basics that I bought a few years ago, just finally getting around to learning it. So far seems "easier" to use and understand. Not much good for Trainz but it does save to 3ds as far as I can see. What I was thinking was learning on this and use another free program with plug ins to export to Trainz.

Have any of you ever heard of this program? It was distributed by Eovia and I've seen it for $15 on line. Just curious.

Dave....

 

[phoenix1]

Has anyone used Google Sketchup to create models for Trainz?

John

I have, but only for making a boiler room and a string of coloured lights. I found really easy look at KUID 129997:1001