HD Problem with Modelz Rly Genre

[Yorkshire]

Just thought I’d share my experience (& frustration!) at using the new HD option on a new single board layout I am developing inTRS22+ Beta. It is in the genre of a model Rly and this is where the problems arise.
1) So I created the layout with the board set to a 5m grid. Large digholes were used to create the operating well/viewing areas and my own thin fascia. The image below (Surveyor mode) shows the result. Everything is OK.

2) In S2.0 I now transform the layout into HD format to make use of and try the many new possibilities it affords. The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]image below shows the problem. Elements of the grid are now made visible at the joins of the digholes. It was even worse on a test I did in the Alpha phase. Plainly, visibly unacceptable as shown below.

3) So I try a solution. Delete the digholes and use the method of lowering the grid height of the operating well and use a new fascia which is 5.1m wide to hide the steep walls between base and the layout level. Finally, translate the board into HD format, and the results are shown below. I was really surprised – and disappointed! The HD transformation process has not maintained the geometry of the grid that I’d spent a good deal of time shaping so that the fascia would hide the steep walls. The HD transformation has brought the hidden wall forward so it appears at the bottom of the fascia. Again, it is visibly unsatisfactory for this
genre.

The conclusion at the moment is that HD is not really a viable format for those of us who want to work at times in the Modelz Rly genre. Whether the development team will or can resolve this issue remains to be seen. I can only hope. In the meantime, back to 5m grid boards and lots of textures!​

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

I'm not sure why you wanted to do the terrain lowering in the old format then convert - why not do it in HD to begin with?

As a result, it looks to me like the conversion has smoothed out your steep areas, so that just requires editing in HD (I suggest using the set height tool to bury the terrain below the fascia).

Once that is done, what problems remain?

 

[Yorkshire]

Hi Tony


Thankyou for coming in and your advice, appreciated and fair points! It seems like I am missing the obvious! The trouble is, after 22 years with Trainz, old habits die hard: and I do find it quicker as far as track and scenery objects is concerned to start off and work in Classic Surveyor. I am not totally confident yet in S2.0 and use it sparingly. It is obviously a big step forward but still (probably age related!) find a few aspects challenging to get my head round. Will follow your suggestion.

 

[Yorkshire]

Carried out the advice to change HD ground levels in S2. So working at the top of the operating well, first image shows that I have managed to eliminate the grid showing through the fascia at the bottom where it joins the floor, and painstakingly set the ground level to meet the top of the fascia. Looks ok.

Move the viewpoint away from the completed area and the grid comes again into view, see image 2 below. This effect always happened with 5m and 10m grid but only if you moved the viewpoint just under 2 baseboards away. In HD mode, it happens if you move less than half a baseboard away. I had read in the blurb that HD would give us a 30km draw distance. When I read that I thought this would eliminate the issue, but it appears not to do so, at least with operating wells!

Is this an issue that is resolvable or is it an inevitable aspect of HD - in which case, whether one uses digholes or lowered grid method, it does seem unsuitable for the Modelz Rly creators.

 

[G.M.]

What you see happening Yorkshire is the LOD effect of the new HD terrain
it is currently set too close in this beta
Try zooming out and in and you see movement of the entire terrain
I am sensitive to motion sickness, same happens with PBR textures used on steep slopes
maybe the LOD can kick in a bit later in the next version (we have sadly no setting)
LOD is ofc needed but should be less visible.


The traditional digholes somehow have chamfered edges (your 2nd pic),
that should not happen either

 

[Yorkshire]

Thanks for coming in GM. It remains to be seen whether they actually address this issue, I hope they do. Unless it is addressed, I maintain that HD is unsuitable for the small model Rly genre. Tony Hilliam never came back to address the second post - after following his advice! Perhaps he has passed it on to the development team as an issue!

 

[Yorkshire]

Just tried the latest Beta and immediately tried out large digholes. Credit to the dvt team. It seems the large digholes can now be used in HD mode without the grid problem I reported earlier. Absolutely delighted so far!

Yorkshire

 

[rogueranger1993]

That's great! Also, Just wanted to ask since you seem to have some experience with MRR routes, how much does the 16-texture limit affect MRR routes? I know that most of them are compact enough to fit a single baseboard, so I was wondering if you've had issues with texture limits and how you solved them? (Sorry for the off-topic, but I'm curious.)

 

[Yorkshire]

I was wondering if you've had issues with texture limits and how you solved them? (Sorry for the off-topic, but I'm curious.)

I am not that experienced actually! However, simple story, I started a new layout in Modelz railway genre in TS22 just after the announcement of the new developments. I thus out of interest restricted myself to 16 textures deciding to make more use of clutter etc and the new colour layer (as I believe Philskene has done). Obviously the problem emerged when neither digholes or lowering the grid level for an operating/viewing well was usable (as my screen shots above showed). Tony's advice didn't actually work! I am just about to go on holiday for 2 weeks so will be out of circulation. However I have put it down to convert some of my earlier layouts when I get back to explore the issues and let you know. Maybe others with experience of this may jump in here and share their experience. Thanks for the response.

Yorkshire

 

[rick1958]

I am not that experienced actually! However, simple story, I started a new layout in Modelz railway genre in TS22 just after the announcement of the new developments. I thus out of interest restricted myself to 16 textures deciding to make more use of clutter etc and the new colour layer (as I believe Philskene has done). Obviously the problem emerged when neither digholes or lowering the grid level for an operating/viewing well was usable (as my screen shots above showed). Tony's advice didn't actually work! I am just about to go on holiday for 2 weeks so will be out of circulation. However I have put it down to convert some of my earlier layouts when I get back to explore the issues and let you know. Maybe others with experience of this may jump in here and share their experience. Thanks for the response.

Yorkshire

I found this very interesting becuase I've experianced the same bleed through, but in '19. Only in my larger layouts, where it bleeds through in the distant fascia (as you said). Very disheartening after spending hours working, only to step back and find that! I thought I could "zap them out" with digholes, but nope. I guess I'll have to think of a work-around or stick to small layouts.

 

[JCitron]

Would setting the draw distance closer help? This may avoid the LOD issue with the terrain.

 

[philskene]

I've converted a one baseboard model railroad into HD and encountered similar issues.

I had to move the facias outwards slightly and go around the layout with the brush radius set at 3m to set the terrain height just inside the facias to zero.

It came out well and I think the effort was worthwhile.

I've put a couple of videos on youtube showing the end result.

Phil