Content Manager- what does " Packaged " mean ?????

[WildWillyWacko]

After hosing my computer in a very bad way, I am having to re-install Trainz 2019.

I'm downloading my favorite route " Rocky Mountains Montana Track 2019 " and I can't understand a couple things:

1. If it is updated to 2019 why is there a bunch of " unknown " assets listed?

2. But, mostly, I see a gazillion assets who's status is marked " Packaged " and one " Packaged payware " , I've never seen this term before and I was using the CM just before I blew-up my comp. What does it mean???

Thanks

Wild Willy the Wacko

 

[1611mac]

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?165541-Packaged-the-new-Built-In

 

[WildWillyWacko]

Thanks for the reply

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?165541-Packaged-the-new-Built-In

I get the message that basically "Packaged" is = to "Built in" and I guess I don't have to understand the fine points till I have issues.

I had a thought that maybe it could cause issues if I get a Package on with a payware and then if I delete the payware maybe the Package items are no longer avaliable to me. The fine points are as clear as mud especially when people talk in anacronims I'm not fmiliar with but, that's my problem.

Thanks

Wild Willy the Wacko

 

[grazlash]

Packaged means it is a DLS asset which has been included in a payware tzarc file. The original will still be on DLS

 

[HPL]

Packaged means it is a DLS asset which has been included in a payware tzarc file. The original will still be on DLS

I have dozens of "Packaged" assets that are not on the DLS.

 

[pware]

I have dozens of "Packaged" assets that are not on the DLS.

After reading that I did a check after installing a new route from the Content Vault (<kuid2:605579:102524:4> Model Trainz: New South Wales Region) and I can confirm the existence of assets that are "packaged" but have no previous asset versions.

Here is one I found:-
<kuid:754195:100663> AUS Road Rural Highway 1a (No Traffic)

 

[HPL]

What exactly is a "Packaged" asset is not clear: if CM is set to Installed=True and Packaged=True, it displays "Base", "Built-in", "Modified", "Packaged" and "Packaged, Payware" assets.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi All
With the latest updates to the DLC system, we now have the ability for creators to specify which assets are to be payware encoded (which are shown as 'packaged, payware' in content manager).


For any non payware assets, they will use the new 'packaged' status, which indicates to you that they are part of a DLC pack, but aren't payware encrypted.

This means that assets shown as 'Packaged' simply means it is an asset that is part of a DLC pack.

Payware encrypted assets will be shown as 'payware' or 'packaged, payware'.

Regards

 

[pware]

An observation:

I have noticed that some assets that were shown as "Packaged" have been updated with a newer version from the DLS. When installed this newer version is showing as "Installed from DLS" and the original packaged version is showing as "Packaged, obsolete". Is this correct?
​

A hypothetical question:

If an asset is on the DLS and an updated version is included in a DLC package then
​

• 
  [*=2]for those users who have the DLC package, will the updated version be shown as "Packaged" and the older version, if they had it installed, will be shown as "Installed from DLS, obsolete"?
  [*=2]for those users who do not have the DLC package but have the older( DLS) version installed, will it be shown as "Installed from DLS" (with no obsolete tag)?
  [*=2]for those who do not have the DLC package or the older (DLS) version installed, will the older (DLS) version be shown as "Available for download"?

​

Thanks in advance.

 

[G.M.]

With the latest updates to the DLC system, we now have the ability for creators to specify which assets are to be payware encoded (which are shown as 'packaged, payware' in content manager).

I hope there is a restriction to this, uploader should only be able to do this to his/her own files so only ones having their own base kuid
It can't be that a freeware, neoklai animated person, suddenly becomes payware because someone included it in their DLC route.
So please check this restriction, TY

 

[stagecoach]

All DLC packages must contain all the assets (DLS or Third Party) used in the route/session or another asset. They show as packaged payware because they are only available with the package. If a DLC package has an updated DLS asset, it will obsolete the DLS version. If you later delete the DLC package, it will also delete the updated DLS asset and show it as packaged payware (not active). If you have this shown in any none DLC route/session you need to open the route and session and delete missing assets. This reverts the kuid back to the DLS version if installed.

When installed this newer version is showing as "Installed from DLS" and the original packaged version is showing as "Packaged, obsolete"? Correct

for those users who have the DLC package, will the updated version be shown as "Packaged" and the older version, if they had it installed, will be shown as "Installed from DLS, obsolete"? Correct

for those users who do not have the DLC package but have the older( DLS) version installed, will it be shown as "Installed from DLS" (with no obsolete tag)? Correct

for those who do not have the DLC package or the older (DLS) version installed, will the older (DLS) version be shown as "Available for download"? Correct

CM only shows the DLS it does not show DLC content. It will however show a newer version available but it cant download it.

 

[Stonegate]

If you have this shown in any none DLC route/session you need to open the route and session and delete missing assets. This reverts the kuid back to the DLS version if installed.

No! No! No!

This should never be required. If a DLS asset has been upgraded to work in a DLC package, then unless the original author of the DLS item has specifically stated that it is not to be made available on the DLS, the updated version should be made available to everyone. After all, why did the asset need to be updated in the first place?. As far as I am aware, only the original author and N3V are entitled to change an asset. If it was broken, the why shouldn't everyone be entitled to an error free version. If it was updated for any other reason, then it should have been given a new, unique KUID: that way anyone buying the DLC item gets what they need and users without the DLC don't have a problem. Surely the aim should be to make things as easy as possible for everyone, not just purchasers of DLC items.

Mike

 

[G.M.]

Agree with Mike, an asset packed in a DLC, should never affect any other route,
nor should it make users not wanting/having that DLC do anything.


The decision to include all items in a Route DLC is one of the worst decisions taken in Trainz history
Think it was taken to allow more speed on download,
but if the DLS was not throttled in the first place, its not needed.


Add the fact that many items will end up on your Hard disk many times, cause they are used in every route
Then people building routes have no good way to know if an asset is in what packaged DLC
The more DLC's a route builder has, the more chance he/she uses an item from such a pack.


it will eventually chase users away, it has come too complex
we want to drive Trainz and build routes, not repair or chase kuids

 

[pware]

There are two other status labels that I find puzzling.

"Not Installed, Payware (not active)" and "Third Party"

"Third Party" looks like it means from a "3rd party web site" but I suspect that it may have something to do with assets that have been temporarily withdrawn from the DLS, for example by the CRG for repair. But this may be incorrect.

Any opinions welcome.

 

[pware]

The decision to include all items in a Route DLC is one of the worst decisions taken in Trainz history
Think it was taken to allow more speed on download,
but if the DLS was not throttled in the first place, its not needed.

I have to disagree. Including everything in the one package means that CM does not have to search through the DLS database to find the DLS content that was originally referenced in a DLC install. It is now all be there in the install file(s).

The DLS does cost money for storage and bandwidth. This cost could be recovered by either:-

• forcing everyone to buy an FCT to access the DLS, or
• increase the prices of the DLC and software

Of those two I would prefer the first because you would pay according to your usage.

Add the fact that many items will end up on your Hard disk many times, cause they are used in every route
Then people building routes have no good way to know if an asset is in what packaged DLC
The more DLC's a route builder has, the more chance he/she uses an item from such a pack.

That does not happen. Select any asset that is "Packaged" and display its dependents (not its dependencies). This will list all the assets that use the selected asset. I tried it on a few and discovered that a single installed "Packaged" asset was used by multiple installed DLC sessions or routes. The same asset did not have a separate individual copy in the installed database for each route or session that needed it.

The new system will take some adjustments by users, all those new categories under the Status heading, but I believe that the end result will be an improvement.

 

[G.M.]

The almost daily posts about users not understanding the system
and even veterans don't understand, means it's not good as it is.


All cost for the server holding items (DLS) are fully tax deductable for any company
n3v pays content creators no royalties for their freeware items included in the basegame or DLC's
only the DLC creator gets something.


Don't get me wrong, I know a company needs to make money, and n3v deserves that
but making it too complex and inefficient on every users system is not helping the game.


A few things could help:
-a wiki page made by n3v explaining the CM classifications
-a clear way knowing where any item is packaged, and where it is on your harddisk
-a central dbase, with reference where any item is hosted (so not only the DLC or DLS)
CM will never show unknown this way, contentcreators can send kuidlist there
-a shared folder where items can be that are the same in any version of TANE-TRS22
reducing doubles, So besides a "Local" path, a "Shared" path
-a free DLC containing often used freeware items, FI neoklai animated people
-An automated CM import that repairs older .texture "errors"
-Easier user friendly way to restore backups.

 

[stagecoach]

There are two other status labels that I find puzzling.

"Not Installed, Payware (not active)"

Any opinions welcome.

This simply means the DLC asset was installed at some point but the package was removed so it is now not active. This may be still in your database because like I said earlier an updated asset won't revert to the older version of the asset automatically.

 

[pware]

This simply means the DLC asset was installed at some point but the package was removed so it is now not active.

That does make sense. Thanks.

 

[pware]

A few things could help:
-a wiki page made by n3v explaining the CM classifications

This thread has given me the idea of creating such a page myself, hence some of my posts asking for clarifications of certain "issues" from the community. N3V does have a Wiki page on downlonding from the DLS but it consists of just a video link.

-a clear way knowing where any item is packaged, and where it is on your harddisk

Right mouse click on any "Packaged" asset and select List Dependents. This will display all the assets (mostly routes and sessions) where that asset is used. I am puzzled as to why you would need to know where the asset is on your hard disk as all installed assets are held in the Trainz Database.

-a central dbase, with reference where any item is hosted (so not only the DLC or DLS)

If this was possible then it would solve many users problems in locating 3rd party assets but it would require those 3rd party sites to provide the information to N3V. It would also require them to keep their assets permanently "on line" but the history of many of those sites is not encouraging in that regard.

-a shared folder where items can be that are the same in any version of TANE-TRS22
reducing doubles, So besides a "Local" path, a "Shared" path

Since about TS2004 or TS2006, assets are no longer stored in folders on your hard disk, they are stored more like "records" in a database. There are no "doubles". If an asset is updated by the creator then the new version is added to the DLS and to your database if you download and install it. The old version is still present, for those who want to use that version instead, but obsoleted DLS assets can be deleted from your database.

-a free DLC containing often used freeware items, FI neoklai animated people

There are a number of free DLC items already available. The DLS is already the source of commonly used freeware items. A DLS asset that is packaged in a DLC download is still available on the DLS for those who do not download and install the DLC route/session. That is the purpose of the "packaged" system.

-An automated CM import that repairs older .texture "errors"

I would applaud that but many .texture "errors" are the result of assets, particularly older assets, with missing or faulty textures. Just like in the early days of Trainz many assets were let through the system with badly written config.txt files, not easy to fix without a human mind guiding the repair.

-Easier user friendly way to restore backups.

I have always preferred to use my own backup and restore system. See https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/How_to_Manage_Backups#Backup_Plan_Basics

My thoughts.

 

[pguy]

Hi pware.

What I know is that if you upload a new version of an asset on the DLS, there is a 24 hours delay between the acceptance of the new asset version and its general avaibility on the DLS. If during that period of time, you try to download the current version of the asset from the DLS, the DLS will download the new updated version instead of the current listed version, but this new updated downloaded version will be listed by content manager as « Third Party » and not « installed from DLS » and this will remain until the 24 hours delays is passed …
So for me « Third Party » are not temporarily assets withdrawn from the DLS but rather new available assets on the DLS currently not listed in the DLS directory listings.

Just my opinion from my experience when uploading new versions to DLS

Regards.
Pierre.