Can anyone create St. Louis Union Station for Trainz 12?
- Thread starter AppleDash22
- Start date
AppleDash22
Autistic Railfan
Hey... My route that I'm planing to use the Union Station model in is set in the 1950s not the 1980s. Try to keep that in mind.
Just remembered:
Does anyone here have Classic Trains Magazine special Dream Trains 2? If you do, it's got a color photo of one end of the canopy of St. Louis Union Station dated October 1965 on page 16 in the article about the Union Pacific/Wabash City of St. Louis. Given it shows the City of St. Louis leaving, I believe it is a picture of the west end of the canopy.
Does anyone here have Classic Trains Magazine special Dream Trains 2? If you do, it's got a color photo of one end of the canopy of St. Louis Union Station dated October 1965 on page 16 in the article about the Union Pacific/Wabash City of St. Louis. Given it shows the City of St. Louis leaving, I believe it is a picture of the west end of the canopy.
Good luck with this station!
I´m building something based on St. Louis for a TrainzForge project.
Was searching my rear end off for some track plans of the yardland surrounding it in its heydays. So far, I was only successful with Frisco diagramms of Tower Grove (build that) and Lindenwood.
So if anyone has the fortune of having some decent track diagrams flying around, I´d appreciate being granted to take a look on those.
I have a bunch of old maps and I added some of together, which gave me an impression of how huge that railroad center was!
Must have been quite a sight back then.
I´m building something based on St. Louis for a TrainzForge project.
Was searching my rear end off for some track plans of the yardland surrounding it in its heydays. So far, I was only successful with Frisco diagramms of Tower Grove (build that) and Lindenwood.
So if anyone has the fortune of having some decent track diagrams flying around, I´d appreciate being granted to take a look on those.
I have a bunch of old maps and I added some of together, which gave me an impression of how huge that railroad center was!
Must have been quite a sight back then.
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
I just want to say that there is a list of major stations that I think need to be modeled in trainz (Omaha, Kansas City, the Chicago stations, etc) and I am so happy that we are close to crossing one off of the list.
Now, moving on:
The best picture of the concourse that I could find:
http://www.museumoftheamericanrailroad.org/portals/0/Concourse_St_Louis_Union_Station_275px.jpg
The sides of the building:
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/05/20/ee/a6/st-louis-union-station.jpg
http://www.cookingwithbooks.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/IMG_3275.jpg
http://www.stl250.org/userfiles/com...tation 1904 from 18th and market___Source.jpg
The front:
http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968113259_E3ims-M.jpg
An arial view:
http://www.missouridepots.com/stlouis-aerial-web.jpg
Now, moving on:
The best picture of the concourse that I could find:
http://www.museumoftheamericanrailroad.org/portals/0/Concourse_St_Louis_Union_Station_275px.jpg
The sides of the building:
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/05/20/ee/a6/st-louis-union-station.jpg
http://www.cookingwithbooks.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/IMG_3275.jpg
http://www.stl250.org/userfiles/com...tation 1904 from 18th and market___Source.jpg
The front:
http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968113259_E3ims-M.jpg
An arial view:
http://www.missouridepots.com/stlouis-aerial-web.jpg
Printed them out - thanks.
1. The overhead shot answers the question of where did the platforms added later went (to the left of the large canopy). They will be made as separate items so can be added or not added depending on the era in which folks model the station.
2. Other shots answer the question of what the left end looked like.
3. One shot gives me a slight idea as to what the rear looks like but I still need more info.
4. One shot shows the concourse so that's solved.
Still need:
1. Shot(s) of the right end.
2. Shot(s) showing the rear (above the concourse).
3. Shot(s) showing how the large canopy joins with the rear of the building and concourse.
4. Building dimensions.
5. How many tracks are under the large canopy? (30 I think).
As for the Omaha, Kansas City, and Chicago stations - one axe in the middle of the foreheadache inducing project at a time please, lol.
Ben
1. The overhead shot answers the question of where did the platforms added later went (to the left of the large canopy). They will be made as separate items so can be added or not added depending on the era in which folks model the station.
2. Other shots answer the question of what the left end looked like.
3. One shot gives me a slight idea as to what the rear looks like but I still need more info.
4. One shot shows the concourse so that's solved.
Still need:
1. Shot(s) of the right end.
2. Shot(s) showing the rear (above the concourse).
3. Shot(s) showing how the large canopy joins with the rear of the building and concourse.
4. Building dimensions.
5. How many tracks are under the large canopy? (30 I think).
As for the Omaha, Kansas City, and Chicago stations - one axe in the middle of the foreheadache inducing project at a time please, lol.
Ben
Hey, I know Ben is totally on board working on such a huge project for you, but please be reminded that he is doing you a favor and the least you could do is show some respect. Try to keep that in mind.
I think AppleDash22 was commenting on folks other then myself potentially wanting this and that rather then me making it my way. I don't make routes or run trains. I just make stuff for other folks so whatever he wants (unless impossible or totally out in left field, lol) is what he gets. I will try and make it with a certain amount of adaptability so it can be configured into different eras.
Examples:
1. Platforms added later as separate items.
2 Two different length canopies.
3. Possibly two different length platforms for under the two different length main canopies.
Ben
Examples:
1. Platforms added later as separate items.
2 Two different length canopies.
3. Possibly two different length platforms for under the two different length main canopies.
Ben
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
Of course, one at a time. I wasn't saying that you should make them all now... that would be awful.
I have some shots of the structure of the trainshed:
http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/railroad/Reports/images/KC-STL11/train shed.JPG
http://mbreiding.us/ert/Tennessee/nashville/Nville_Fri_21st_Jan/union_station_files/Nashville1.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3458/3404982404_4757d63447_z.jpg
http://image.shutterstock.com/displ...ion-station-in-st-louis-missouri-10049716.jpg
In the 50's the trainshed probably didn't let as much light in because of soot and grime, so that should be taken into account.
And here is the other end of the concourse (in modern times):
http://stlouispatina.files.wordpres...52c2bunion2bstation252c2bsoap2bplant2b051.jpg
I also found some shots of the right/western side of the station:
https://cdn2.gbot.me/photos/as/Me/1...Louis_Union_Station-3000000042442-500x375.jpg
http://www.american-rails.com/images/SLUS_GM.jpg
Under the trainshed, there were 32 tracks. The 1929 expansion added 10 tracks to the west side of the station, which were the individual platforms that we were talking about.
The City Of St. Louis departs St. Louis Union Station:
http://streamlinermemories.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/wabashsweetland96.jpg
A SLSF train backs into the station:
http://condrenrails.com/Frisco/Frisco Diesels/E-Units/SLSF2012/SLSF_Psgr2012StLouis.jpg
A PRR T-1 passes the terminal and some GM&O cars being pushed into the terminal:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2/7/3/7273.1369151193.jpg
The St. Louisian backs into the terminal:
file://localhost/Users/jackson/Desktop/Screen%20Shot%202014-05-01%20at%2010.48.48%20AM.png
The Spirit of St. Louis departs:
file://localhost/Users/jackson/Desktop/Screen%20Shot%202014-05-01%20at%2010.48.11%20AM.png
The Ann Rutledge passes over the elevated section of the terminal railroad heading north:
http://trra-hts.railfan.net/images/altonfot2.jpg
The St. Louisian approaches Union Station, descending the approach to UD bridge:
http://trra-hts.railfan.net/images/applfot2.jpg
Last edited:
Printed most of them out. Sees to be all I've been saying for days, lol. They help a lot.
I now have some idea what the rear looks like. Not all but a fair amount.
Solves the what's on the right end question.
32 tracks under the train shed? I count 30 based on the track diagram among the first set of photo links.
Looks like all I need before I can start on it is dimensions of the actual building.
I'm not a PRR fan but still - that photo of the T-1 looks great. About the only one I've ever seen that wasn't posed for photographer.
Ben
I now have some idea what the rear looks like. Not all but a fair amount.
Solves the what's on the right end question.
32 tracks under the train shed? I count 30 based on the track diagram among the first set of photo links.
Looks like all I need before I can start on it is dimensions of the actual building.
I'm not a PRR fan but still - that photo of the T-1 looks great. About the only one I've ever seen that wasn't posed for photographer.
Ben
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
Finding dimensions might be tricky... If we can't find any, perhaps we could estimate them based on the width of the trainshed and such.
I'l do my best.
I'l do my best.
I've thought of that and it may end up what I use but it would be nice to have a corroborating dimension.
Tracks come in pairs so:
Figure 14 foot track centers, add 5 feet per side for the width of the traincars. For 30 tracks that's 420 feet. Add the platforms in between track pairs at 12 feet each a you get the 600 feet width of the canopy I was told earlier.
I've often wondered if Trainzers realize how much "figgerin" I have to do to make things based on a fuzzy photo or drawing and a hearty "good luck" (better known as by guess an by golly", lol). Obviously this does not fall into that category.
Ben
Tracks come in pairs so:
Figure 14 foot track centers, add 5 feet per side for the width of the traincars. For 30 tracks that's 420 feet. Add the platforms in between track pairs at 12 feet each a you get the 600 feet width of the canopy I was told earlier.
I've often wondered if Trainzers realize how much "figgerin" I have to do to make things based on a fuzzy photo or drawing and a hearty "good luck" (better known as by guess an by golly", lol). Obviously this does not fall into that category.
Ben
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
I read up on the station and it had 32 tracks initially under the trainshed. Perhaps there were two on the outside of the shed with a platform running along where the support columns were for the trainshed. That would put 30 tracks inside the shed with 2 on the outside for a total of 32.
No dice on the dimensions yet, still looking though.
No dice on the dimensions yet, still looking though.
I see that this in going to be interesting. I will be watching this. I looked through the photos posted and have not seen that any I have are missed. I have been slowly collecting these as well because I was going to do a request when I got that far. I have from Jefferson Barracks to the Budweiser plant laid in track. Question to the original author of the thread..... Are you doing Union Station St Louis as a single or double throat crossover? I believe it changed about 1904 for the worlds fair. You are taking on a fair bit of track work just with the area around St Louis Union station.
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
If he's doing it in the 1950's, then I think he would be doing the double throat.
Keep in mind gents I can not make switches either under or out of the canopy so:
1. I make all tracks the same length to the end of the canopy.
2. I make them different lengths and folks add the switches and part of the wye under the canopy.
In either case they will be separate items you must add and position in surveyor.
Ben
1. I make all tracks the same length to the end of the canopy.
2. I make them different lengths and folks add the switches and part of the wye under the canopy.
In either case they will be separate items you must add and position in surveyor.
Ben
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
I think the second option would be best for people trying to recreate the trackwork around the terminal.
Probably but its up to the original requestor.
Based on the track diagram I have the nine center most track pairs would be full length. The others tapering off in length as you get farther from the center.
BUT!!! which length canopy applies? It was extended at one time by 180 feet. Is the diagram I have showing the original length or after the extension?
Also keep in mind when I say tracks I really mean passenger enabled platforms with a track on each side since I have to do it that way to get around the 8 track limit in the Small Station script which is built into Trainz.
Ben
Based on the track diagram I have the nine center most track pairs would be full length. The others tapering off in length as you get farther from the center.
BUT!!! which length canopy applies? It was extended at one time by 180 feet. Is the diagram I have showing the original length or after the extension?
Also keep in mind when I say tracks I really mean passenger enabled platforms with a track on each side since I have to do it that way to get around the 8 track limit in the Small Station script which is built into Trainz.
Ben