Baseboards

[JCitron]

It's stuck on loading here and I have a reasonably fast connection, the screen says its been updated and is faster? Probably means they are actually working on it at the moment.

Their server must be being upgraded because it worked somewhat late last night. It was down off and on previously where you couldn't select anything. They manage to do this on weekends when we like to download, and have it running just in time for Monday when we're ready for work.

I have also have found that at night during the week it gets really busy too - it must be like the DLS used to be with all the Trainzers trying to download maps!

John

 

[Maddox61]

I've doing some internet scouring, it seems for some reason that Dem is not available, very odd, I did find an old post by someone who actually had it, links were dead though. Tried the wayback machine but nothing there, It must exist somewhere though.

If you look at Google Earth the imagery isn't very good, I suspect that might have something to do with it.

Incidentally I found a setting in Microdem where you can set the pixel size that might solve the 9.8 9.97 problem, I've tried it on a small DEM, just need to check measurements. Theory is that should correct the size for hog so the pixel size is 10.

If you subtract .005 from the number you are to put into the zoom tab, you will hit 10.00 every time. If the number is over 4.000 or 40.00 then subrtact .005 from the number.

Merrill

 

[Maddox61]

One cause for confusion is the term DEM (Digital Elevation Model). By definition, this is a digital geo data resource, a kind of cartographic map, with only one feature: elevation. A DEM has nothing to do with Trainz at all.

Trainz route builders sometimes say DEM when they actually mean a DEM-based but otherwise blank Trainz route.


Now back to DEM sources for the Royal Gorge.

As I said a couple of times before, the standard DEM for the 48 continuous US states is named NED, the National Elevation Data. It is available from USGS Seamless Server: http://seamless.usgs.gov/website/seamless/viewer.htm

Seamless means tailor-made. Pick your area and the server produces your personal DEM file.

For the Royal Gorge you get 1/3 arc sec, but not 1/9. For best results choose GeoTIFF format, since this is the only one with floating point vertical resolution. (Applies to TransDEM. For the MicroDEM/HOG process you would need the Piglet utility to benefit from GeoTIFF.)

I did this, and when I put in the location it came back with '0' data for that area. Even when I added all data sets. I can go right beside that area and pull up all kinds of data but the minute I get over the deepest end of the Gorge, It says "No Data Found"

I am about to give up and just have a go at doing that one part by hand. It will most likely be around 10 to 15 boards.

I figure if I add an image of the contour lines and map and raise the elevation in layers, I could get most of it right. the only trouble would be smoothing the grid between layers, so it would not look like a bunch of cube cuts.

 

[Maddox61]

One cause for confusion is the term DEM (Digital Elevation Model). By definition, this is a digital geo data resource, a kind of cartographic map, with only one feature: elevation. A DEM has nothing to do with Trainz at all.

Trainz route builders sometimes say DEM when they actually mean a DEM-based but otherwise blank Trainz route.


Now back to DEM sources for the Royal Gorge.

As I said a couple of times before, the standard DEM for the 48 continuous US states is named NED, the National Elevation Data. It is available from USGS Seamless Server: http://seamless.usgs.gov/website/seamless/viewer.htm

Seamless means tailor-made. Pick your area and the server produces your personal DEM file.

For the Royal Gorge you get 1/3 arc sec, but not 1/9. For best results choose GeoTIFF format, since this is the only one with floating point vertical resolution. (Applies to TransDEM. For the MicroDEM/HOG process you would need the Piglet utility to benefit from GeoTIFF.)

Another thing is, have you checked that link? I know I have a very high speed internet service and I can't get the viewer to load.

I tried to get the data from http://edcsns17.cr.usgs.gov/NewEarthExplorer/ With no luck for that area.

 

[mezzoprezzo]

~snip~ I figure if I add an image of the contour lines and map and raise the elevation in layers, I could get most of it right. the only trouble would be smoothing the grid between layers, so it would not look like a bunch of cube cuts.

I did part of the Swanage Railway in southern England using an image of an Ordnance Survey map on a basemap then used invisible track to set the contour levels.

To help with the smoothing I built a lattice of cross section invisible tracks which helped with the smoothing out of the inevitable “steps”. However, it didn’t eliminate it completely, so there was a lot of hand finishing using the terrain tools set to minimum radius.

 

[Maddox61]

Merrill,

Check out this here:

http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

This may have what you are looking for, albeit in 1 arc-second, as Andy said.

I've been using this for my own project recently, which isn't quite as challenging as yours.

Good luck, and have fun!

John

Hey John,

This is the closest I have gotten. In this viewer, I could get some data on the area in mention.

But I aint sure what data I am needing sence nothing syas DEM. So I selected all under US Topo maps.
I got 2 sets of data, I believe 1arc and 1/3.


If this is what I need, can the info be used in MicroDem? If so, how posible?
Sence I have only worked with loading DEMs into Microdem.

Thanks

Merill

 

[Maddox61]

One cause for confusion is the term DEM (Digital Elevation Model). By definition, this is a digital geo data resource, a kind of cartographic map, with only one feature: elevation. A DEM has nothing to do with Trainz at all.

Trainz route builders sometimes say DEM when they actually mean a DEM-based but otherwise blank Trainz route.


Now back to DEM sources for the Royal Gorge.

As I said a couple of times before, the standard DEM for the 48 continuous US states is named NED, the National Elevation Data. It is available from USGS Seamless Server: http://seamless.usgs.gov/website/seamless/viewer.htm

Seamless means tailor-made. Pick your area and the server produces your personal DEM file.

For the Royal Gorge you get 1/3 arc sec, but not 1/9. For best results choose GeoTIFF format, since this is the only one with floating point vertical resolution. (Applies to TransDEM. For the MicroDEM/HOG process you would need the Piglet utility to benefit from GeoTIFF.)

Ok, So far, I have the 1/3 arc downloaded in the GeoTIFF format. I know this sound dumb, but I do not know what the Piglet utility is. I tried to google it and got Piglet from WaltDisney anad I don't think that piglet is going to be able to help me.:hehe:

Can you please explain

Thanks,


Merrill

 

[Maddox61]

I did part of the Swanage Railway in southern England using an image of an Ordnance Survey map on a basemap then used invisible track to set the contour levels.

To help with the smoothing I built a lattice of cross section invisible tracks which helped with the smoothing out of the inevitable “steps”. However, it didn’t eliminate it completely, so there was a lot of hand finishing using the terrain tools set to minimum radius.

Very nice job on the layout. I tried some of the same technique. It works greate on a lot of areas, but when you have an elevation of almost a 70 degree angle in rocks it didn't work too well.

But like I said, I tworked greate on terrain such as in hte city, or around hills.

Greate idea though.


Thanks,

Merrill

 

[clam1952]

Microdem, the current version will open geotiff, seems to deal with virtually everything now.

You can always use the 5m grid which will give finer adjustment if doing it by hand.

 

[Maddox61]

Microdem, the current version will open geotiff, seems to deal with virtually everything now.

You can always use the 5m grid which will give finer adjustment if doing it by hand.

I tried to use MicroDem to load these. I used open DEM and selected the geotiff. It said I had a "Range check error". Not sure what this means.

I know that the data I downloaded was the only one available that listed a 1/3 arc. in a geotiff format.
I am going to try and see if there is maybe something else I may have done wrong.

We're getting closer though.


Thanks,

Merrill

 

[Maddox61]

Microdem, the current version will open geotiff, seems to deal with virtually everything now.

You can always use the 5m grid which will give finer adjustment if doing it by hand.

Shows how much I need to learn. Didn't know they had an adjustment for the grid. I guess I do now though, don't I?

Thanks,


Merrill

 

[NSWGR_46Class]

Shows how much I need to learn. Didn't know they had an adjustment for the grid. I guess I do now though, don't I?

Thanks,


Merrill

not in 2009 --- like the man said in the current version you can change the 10 meter grid to a 5 meter grid

 

[Maddox61]

not in 2009 --- like the man said in the current version you can change the 10 meter grid to a 5 meter grid

He said you could open geoTiff files in the Current Version of Microdem.

That if I wanted to build the layout by hand I could try setting the grid to 5m.

It is however, good to know that it can not be adjusted in ts2009.

Thanks

 

[Maddox61]

Hey Malc,

So, I went back and downloaded evry file they had that was in a geotiff format.
The file pertaining to the 1 and 1/3 arc.

When I went to open them in MicroDem, I am assuming that I select "open DEM".

When I do this, I get an error that reads "Range Check Error"

Shoould I be loading this in a different way or as a different type of file?

All I know to do is go back to MicroDem and try and open each file as many ways as posible in MicroDem. One of them should work, if your doing it.

I think I can, I think I can,:hehe:

Ain't going to give up. I'm on a mission now!

Thanks,

Merrill

 

[Maddox61]

Got It!!!


Yah!!!!

Found a program that you can load into Google Earth that allows you to use there map to create DEMs.

Here is the link to the (oh so simple to fallow) instructions and the link to download the add-on for Google Earth.

http://builders.forumotion.net/t1151-tutorial-how-to-create-a-world-using-real-world-height-data

I don't know how well it is going to work yet, But I atleast got the area I needed. And it is loaded into MicroDem now.

I sure hope it will work in Hog and the elevations are correct in Trainz.

More to come as soon as aI find out if it works.

Thanks,


Merrill

 

[Maddox61]

Well, It did work, But at the bottom of the Gorge, it is a bit rough. That must be the trouble with the USGS. At the area of the bridge, the bridge itself tends to get added to the elevation as well, sence the Gorge is so narrow. So, when I created it in Trainz, the area right under the bridge is filled in to the elevation of the bridge itself. Easy fix though.

The hard part is going to be laying the track through there. Since the Gorge is so narrow, the elevation of the track and the river are both the same. Not to mention, the elevation is not correct at the bottom, again, due to the cliffs being so high and narrow.

So I guess I will lay the track, adjust the grade and then lower the elevation beside the tracks for the river.

I am going to re load it one more time though to see if I can get the elevations just a bit closer.

One problem I am having is the elevation in that area starts off at 1530m and ends at 4298m, and Trainz only will go to 3000m.

This being the case, would you lower the entire elevation (But then could not attach to another track using real life elevations), or would you just key in the actual elevation and leave it at that?

Almost there!


Thanks,

Merrill

 

[geophil]

Ok, So far, I have the 1/3 arc downloaded in the GeoTIFF format. I know this sound dumb, but I do not know what the Piglet utility is. I tried to google it and got Piglet from WaltDisney anad I don't think that piglet is going to be able to help me.:hehe:

"Piglet" is an extension to "Hog", no pun intended .

Before explaining let me state that the MicroDEM/HOG process does work and does yield reasonable results, but it involves a lot of manual action and requires more than a basic understanding of what's going on. You also have been said that there is another much simpler method but that one is not free.


Now, Piglet: GeoTIFF DEMs allow floating point vertical resolution in the format. It's an option, not a requirement, but the USGS Seamless Server makes use of it.

Floating point means, the elevation value is not restricted to integers like 200m, 201m, 202m but allows for intermediate value: 200.2m. While this is irrelevant for the rock faces which form the gorge it's of much importance for a more even landscape, like the plateau above the gorge or the approach from Canon City. Better vertical resolution eliminates terracing effects in the created terrain, without the need for low pass filtering which would lose detail.

However, the standard transfer process from MicroDEM using greyscale or colour images cannot benefit from this. This transfer type restricts the number of different elevation levels to 256 (greyscale) or 128 and less (colour). No room for fractions of meters.

What you could do instead is to sve the data from MicroDEM not as an image but as a series of elevation pints in text format, called XYZ.

The Piglet utility is part of the HOG package. It can read XYZ and creates a new image file with 16bit colour depth, or 65636 different elevation levels. HOG itself can then read these 16bit Piglet images and process them as with the standard transfer, but with increased resolution.

 

[clam1952]

He said you could open geoTiff files in the Current Version of Microdem.

That if I wanted to build the layout by hand I could try setting the grid to 5m.

It is however, good to know that it can not be adjusted in ts2009.

Thanks

2009 has the 5m grid, it was one of the advertised new features!

 

[Maddox61]

2009 has the 5m grid, it was one of the advertised new features!

I found the advert about being able to get 5m. But do not have a setting for it. Or I ain't looking in the right place.

In surveyor, I looked under the settings , and found nothing. On the grid tab, it will only let me toggle from wire to solid frame.

Any clue as to where the setting is, or is it a code: IE. ctrl/mmmg as such?


Thanks Malc,



Merrill

 

[Maddox61]

"Piglet" is an extension to "Hog", no pun intended .

Before explaining let me state that the MicroDEM/HOG process does work and does yield reasonable results, but it involves a lot of manual action and requires more than a basic understanding of what's going on. You also have been said that there is another much simpler method but that one is not free.


Now, Piglet: GeoTIFF DEMs allow floating point vertical resolution in the format. It's an option, not a requirement, but the USGS Seamless Server makes use of it.

Floating point means, the elevation value is not restricted to integers like 200m, 201m, 202m but allows for intermediate value: 200.2m. While this is irrelevant for the rock faces which form the gorge it's of much importance for a more even landscape, like the plateau above the gorge or the approach from Canon City. Better vertical resolution eliminates terracing effects in the created terrain, without the need for low pass filtering which would lose detail.

However, the standard transfer process from MicroDEM using greyscale or colour images cannot benefit from this. This transfer type restricts the number of different elevation levels to 256 (greyscale) or 128 and less (colour). No room for fractions of meters.

What you could do instead is to sve the data from MicroDEM not as an image but as a series of elevation pints in text format, called XYZ.

The Piglet utility is part of the HOG package. It can read XYZ and creates a new image file with 16bit colour depth, or 65636 different elevation levels. HOG itself can then read these 16bit Piglet images and process them as with the standard transfer, but with increased resolution.

If I got this right, I save the DEM as "ASCII XYZ", place this file in hog as I would a .tga image and open it using the "Tools/Convert/ASCII XYZ to" (the only thing I have is "24Bit Height map").
Then when I add the optional "Mini Map and Texturing Guide" would I still do this as if I had used an image file? Or does the XYZ include the data for the mini map and textures?


After the new year, I will be getting Trandem to use for and when I create my next route. Maybe it will make life a bit more easier on me.:hehe:


Thanks again for all the help.


Merrill