Baseboards

Well I'm a happy camper,

Just found out that each of my 256 x 256 grid squares is exactly 1,000m or 1km. That sure worked out nice. Now all I need to do is figure out how I am going to get it into Trainz.

Doing it manualy, I was going to create a plain with the image textured to it and try and add it to Trainz like an asset. So, don't laugh, I know there is a way to do this, but I was taught to figure out a way to get things done, one way or another, right or wrong. :hehe:
 
Well I'm a happy camper,

Just found out that each of my 256 x 256 grid squares is exactly 1,000m or 1km. That sure worked out nice. Now all I need to do is figure out how I am going to get it into Trainz.

Doing it manualy, I was going to create a plain with the image textured to it and try and add it to Trainz like an asset. So, don't laugh, I know there is a way to do this, but I was taught to figure out a way to get things done, one way or another, right or wrong. :hehe:

If you want to go this route, pun intended, try using Base map objects. They are essentially blank plains that your substitute a generic image with your own. They come in sets so you can cut your image up and paste them on multiple base maps.

To use them you place them in your route and sink them a smidge below the terrain and use mesh-view of the landscape. With TS2010 and TS12, you can lock them in place using the lock-layer feature.

With the base map in place and ready to go, you now simply place objects on to of them like tracks, buildings, etc. in their corresponding place.

In the past I've used base maps to create a couple of small routes. One of them is up on the DLS. Look for Scenic and Relaxed. Everything is there except one building, which you can replace with whatever you wish.

John
 

Thanks John,

I checked them out and found that you must order the program Via email.
So I think I am going to have a go at creating the terrain manualy. It will most likely be time consuming, but fun none the less. Not to mention the experience I will gain from this.

However, I will be looking into TrainsDem for the future. Looks interesting.

Thanks for the link,

Merrill
 
Thanks John,

I checked them out and found that you must order the program Via email.
So I think I am going to have a go at creating the terrain manualy. It will most likely be time consuming, but fun none the less. Not to mention the experience I will gain from this.

However, I will be looking into TrainsDem for the future. Looks interesting.

Thanks for the link,

Merrill

You'll find the program extremely useful for a project such as yours. The cost is about $36.00 USD. I purchased it about a year ago and it's been worth the cost.

Roland Ziegler, the creator of the program is actually a member here. His login name is GeoPhil and he provides a lot of support for his program both here and on his own forums.

Have fun with your project.

John
 
If you want to go this route, pun intended, try using Base map objects. They are essentially blank plains that your substitute a generic image with your own. They come in sets so you can cut your image up and paste them on multiple base maps.

To use them you place them in your route and sink them a smidge below the terrain and use mesh-view of the landscape. With TS2010 and TS12, you can lock them in place using the lock-layer feature.

With the base map in place and ready to go, you now simply place objects on to of them like tracks, buildings, etc. in their corresponding place.

In the past I've used base maps to create a couple of small routes. One of them is up on the DLS. Look for Scenic and Relaxed. Everything is there except one building, which you can replace with whatever you wish.

John

That was exactly what I had in mind John,

The maps I have created have the ellevation lines on them, I was going to set them below the grid, using wire frame and simply ellevate the terain in layers. Then I would need to lay the track manualy. More greate experiance.

But I never thought of doing this to locate and place buildings. What a greate idea.:)


Thanks

Merrill
 
You'll find the program extremely useful for a project such as yours. The cost is about $36.00 USD. I purchased it about a year ago and it's been worth the cost.

Roland Ziegler, the creator of the program is actually a member here. His login name is GeoPhil and he provides a lot of support for his program both here and on his own forums.

Have fun with your project.

John


Thanks John
 
Prototyping a route in 3d modeling software

Here are a couple of ideas about your proposal to do a Royal Gorge route.

First, do it in more than one section. If I were doing it, I'd use at least five sections: Pueblo to Cañon City; Cañon City to Salida; Salida to Gunnison, Gunnison to Olathe, and Olathe to Grand Junction. On a route this size, if you get tired of working on one section (or run into a problem you're not sure how to solve), you can move to another one.

I was going to start another thread for this next idea, but instead I'll take advantage of the opportunity to publish the idea in this one.

Second, while this is, at least as far as I know, a novel idea, I'd do a lot of the work in Blender. I have proven to myself that one can create a surface using Blender upon which one can install track, and which one can texture, and one has much greater control over the surface with Blender than one has with the topology tools in Trainz. Further one can combine many blender objects into the scene. If you're doing buildings, place them on the Blender baseboard; when you get the board completed, export it to trainz, and place it intact on the baseboard. This will have the added advantage of giving you capabilities that are missing in Trainz. For example, the topology tools in Trainz do not permit a vertical, or undercut terrain, but you could do that without too much problem in Blender, and since when imported, Trainz will see your board as a structure, it will not complain about such things as balancing rocks, vertical walls, and undercuts. Further, because you can subdivide and sculpt blender regions, one can get much finer geological detail with Blender than with TS surveyor tools.

It's not quite as hard as it sounds. If one exports the default blender cube, and imports the mesh into Trainz, the default cube is the size of the large original squares on the Auran baseboard. It's easy to start a baseboard: delete the top four vertices of the cube, and scale the resulting plane face by 360 units in the x and y directions, and one has a 720 x 720 surface.

[Note: Even though I've already got my flame proof suit on, I would fully expect that one could use 3ds Studio to model the route just as one could with Blender. I'd be surprised if one could not do it with GMAX, too, but I've very limited experience with that software, and it's not at all current. I'll leave it to others to confirm or deny the viability of using GMAX.]

By the way, it occurs to me that creating a baseboard in Blender also provides a solution to the request I made for route rotation capability in the Suggestion Boxcar forum. The Trainz baseboard, and any content referenced to that baseboard, can stay in it's native orientation, but one can rotate the surface, and any content fastened to the sufrace, that us created in 3d modeling software. There is another issue that this technique can address, which is an old topic in the Suggestion boxcar. One can create a portion of a board in modeling software, too, satisfying those who would like to have a triangular shaped board to fill in with. Also, for those interested in producing free-lance routes, the technique can be used to prototype the route, with more precision and control than one gets from the topography tools in TS.

Finally, a last suggestion for the Royal Gorge route: invite collaborators. if there is one other person interested in participating, you halve the work you have to do; if there are three other people, you cut the work you have to do in half again. And working with them would not only speed up the work, but provide an opportunity to work with like minded men and women. And you'd certainly have to have at least one field trip, too, providing a chance to get together with friends and enjoy a common endeavor.

ns
 
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Thanks John,

I checked them out and found that you must order the program Via email.
So I think I am going to have a go at creating the terrain manualy. It will most likely be time consuming, but fun none the less. Not to mention the experience I will gain from this.

However, I will be looking into TrainsDem for the future. Looks interesting.

Thanks for the link,

Merrill

There is a freeware alternative, not quite as good as Transdem but it worked ok for me and that is Microdem + Hog.
 
OK. So I am off to try and create a layout. I am new and while learning I wanted to be creating at the same time, (ie, All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy!)
I have a couple questions about the Baseboard.......

I have a soon to be released route that is more than 150 miles in length and more baseboards than I wish to count.

If it helps you get started, have a look at the tutorials in:

http://homepage.mac.com/doug56/MBC

They show you how to use baseboards.

Cayden
 
There is a freeware alternative, not quite as good as Transdem but it worked ok for me and that is Microdem + Hog.

I went to download MicroDem ealier today and got a worning that the program could cause harm to my PC. Is this nowmal, and is the software safe?

Thanks
 
Here are a couple of ideas about your proposal to do a Royal Gorge route.

First, do it in more than one section. If I were doing it, I'd use at least five sections: Pueblo to Cañon City; Cañon City to Salida; Salida to Gunnison, Gunnison to Olathe, and Olathe to Grand Junction. On a route this size, if you get tired of working on one section (or run into a problem you're not sure how to solve), you can move to another one.

I was going to start another thread for this next idea, but instead I'll take advantage of the opportunity to publish the idea in this one.

Second, while this is, at least as far as I know, a novel idea, I'd do a lot of the work in Blender. I have proven to myself that one can create a surface using Blender upon which one can install track, and which one can texture, and one has much greater control over the surface with Blender than one has with the topology tools in Trainz. Further one can combine many blender objects into the scene. If you're doing buildings, place them on the Blender baseboard; when you get the board completed, export it to trainz, and place it intact on the baseboard. This will have the added advantage of giving you capabilities that are missing in Trainz. For example, the topology tools in Trainz do not permit a vertical, or undercut terrain, but you could do that without too much problem in Blender, and since when imported, Trainz will see your board as a structure, it will not complain about such things as balancing rocks, vertical walls, and undercuts. Further, because you can subdivide and sculpt blender regions, one can get much finer geological detail with Blender than with TS surveyor tools.

It's not quite as hard as it sounds. If one exports the default blender cube, and imports the mesh into Trainz, the default cube is the size of the large original squares on the Auran baseboard. It's easy to start a baseboard: delete the top four vertices of the cube, and scale the resulting plane face by 360 units in the x and y directions, and one has a 720 x 720 surface.

[Note: Even though I've already got my flame proof suit on, I would fully expect that one could use 3ds Studio to model the route just as one could with Blender. I'd be surprised if one could not do it with GMAX, too, but I've very limited experience with that software, and it's not at all current. I'll leave it to others to confirm or deny the viability of using GMAX.]

By the way, it occurs to me that creating a baseboard in Blender also provides a solution to the request I made for route rotation capability in the Suggestion Boxcar forum. The Trainz baseboard, and any content referenced to that baseboard, can stay in it's native orientation, but one can rotate the surface, and any content fastened to the sufrace, that us created in 3d modeling software. There is another issue that this technique can address, which is an old topic in the Suggestion boxcar. One can create a portion of a board in modeling software, too, satisfying those who would like to have a triangular shaped board to fill in with. Also, for those interested in producing free-lance routes, the technique can be used to prototype the route, with more precision and control than one gets from the topography tools in TS.

Finally, a last suggestion for the Royal Gorge route: invite collaborators. if there is one other person interested in participating, you halve the work you have to do; if there are three other people, you cut the work you have to do in half again. And working with them would not only speed up the work, but provide an opportunity to work with like minded men and women. And you'd certainly have to have at least one field trip, too, providing a chance to get together with friends and enjoy a common endeavor.

ns

The route I am working on is Cannon City to Salida. This alone is around an 80 mile strech of track and will take around a year to complete.

That is if I work on it every day.:D
 
Here are a couple of ideas about your proposal to do a Royal Gorge route.

First, do it in more than one section. If I were doing it, I'd use at least five sections: Pueblo to Cañon City; Cañon City to Salida; Salida to Gunnison, Gunnison to Olathe, and Olathe to Grand Junction. On a route this size, if you get tired of working on one section (or run into a problem you're not sure how to solve), you can move to another one.

I was going to start another thread for this next idea, but instead I'll take advantage of the opportunity to publish the idea in this one.

Second, while this is, at least as far as I know, a novel idea, I'd do a lot of the work in Blender. I have proven to myself that one can create a surface using Blender upon which one can install track, and which one can texture, and one has much greater control over the surface with Blender than one has with the topology tools in Trainz. Further one can combine many blender objects into the scene. If you're doing buildings, place them on the Blender baseboard; when you get the board completed, export it to trainz, and place it intact on the baseboard. This will have the added advantage of giving you capabilities that are missing in Trainz. For example, the topology tools in Trainz do not permit a vertical, or undercut terrain, but you could do that without too much problem in Blender, and since when imported, Trainz will see your board as a structure, it will not complain about such things as balancing rocks, vertical walls, and undercuts. Further, because you can subdivide and sculpt blender regions, one can get much finer geological detail with Blender than with TS surveyor tools.

It's not quite as hard as it sounds. If one exports the default blender cube, and imports the mesh into Trainz, the default cube is the size of the large original squares on the Auran baseboard. It's easy to start a baseboard: delete the top four vertices of the cube, and scale the resulting plane face by 360 units in the x and y directions, and one has a 720 x 720 surface.

[Note: Even though I've already got my flame proof suit on, I would fully expect that one could use 3ds Studio to model the route just as one could with Blender. I'd be surprised if one could not do it with GMAX, too, but I've very limited experience with that software, and it's not at all current. I'll leave it to others to confirm or deny the viability of using GMAX.]

By the way, it occurs to me that creating a baseboard in Blender also provides a solution to the request I made for route rotation capability in the Suggestion Boxcar forum. The Trainz baseboard, and any content referenced to that baseboard, can stay in it's native orientation, but one can rotate the surface, and any content fastened to the sufrace, that us created in 3d modeling software. There is another issue that this technique can address, which is an old topic in the Suggestion boxcar. One can create a portion of a board in modeling software, too, satisfying those who would like to have a triangular shaped board to fill in with. Also, for those interested in producing free-lance routes, the technique can be used to prototype the route, with more precision and control than one gets from the topography tools in TS.

Finally, a last suggestion for the Royal Gorge route: invite collaborators. if there is one other person interested in participating, you halve the work you have to do; if there are three other people, you cut the work you have to do in half again. And working with them would not only speed up the work, but provide an opportunity to work with like minded men and women. And you'd certainly have to have at least one field trip, too, providing a chance to get together with friends and enjoy a common endeavor.

ns

OK. So I am off to try and create a layout. I am new and while learning I wanted to be creating at the same time, (ie, All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy!)
I have a couple questions about the Baseboard.......

I have a soon to be released route that is more than 150 miles in length and more baseboards than I wish to count.

If it helps you get started, have a look at the tutorials in:

http://homepage.mac.com/doug56/MBC

They show you how to use baseboards.

Cayden

One of the most informational site I have seen.

Thank you very much.:D

Merrill
 
....downfall is it has a buildt in Graphics card........Trouble is, I checked on installng a new card and bumping the ram up to 8gigs....

Your 4gb ram is fine. What is your PSU capacity? If its around, or better, than 350w you should be able to buy a reasonable lower power (and cheap) graphics card which will run Trainz OK - you won't get super computer performance but...
 
I went to download MicroDem ealier today and got a worning that the program could cause harm to my PC. Is this nowmal, and is the software safe?

Thanks

This is a false warning. Read the author's website for more information on that. In addition he made a newer patch to patch the installer so it doesn't get eaten by your antivirus product.

John
 
Your 4gb ram is fine. What is your PSU capacity? If its around, or better, than 350w you should be able to buy a reasonable lower power (and cheap) graphics card which will run Trainz OK - you won't get super computer performance but...


That is one of the problems, 250w. Can't do much with that. And if I upgrade the PSU, I will most likely need to replace the motherboard and by the I will have spent enough money and time to build a new pc.

They should outlaw packaged systems. But I was the dubmy that bought it.:o

Thanks
 
Tutorila for Microdem and Hog here http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wewain/trainz/Surveyor/Baseboard/Topology/TerrainGeneration/Computer-generatedTerrain.htm Server appears to be down at the moment though.

if you decide to give Microdem a go.
When using the tutorial which is slightly out of date, you do not need to do the height conversion calculation as the default is now in metres anyway and you do not need to save as bmp and convert to TGA as saving to TGA is now an option. Plus a couple of the dialogues are slightly different, easy enough to work out though.

Putting in a new power supply does not require a new motherboard, there are only two types of plug, the newer one has extra pins and all modern power supplies will fit both types anyway. Besides unless your PC is incredibly old it will have the socket with the extra pins.
 
That is one of the problems, 250w. Can't do much with that. ...<snippage>...

They should outlaw packaged systems.

In reverse order, packaged systems are a good deal for a good many ordinary people. They're not so good, sometimes for Trainz users, but then were not ordinary people.

As to the power supply, I've had the power supplies go bad in both systems I bought a bit more than two years ago, and I replaced them myself. in both cases, I replaced the power supply originally built into the computer with a larger one; both were originally 300 W power supplies, and I replaced them with 460 W power supplies. I suspect that the power supplies are pretty closely matched to the hardware you purchased, and that the power supply may be running at high enough capacity that it is the element that will fail first. If it were me, I'd begin setting aside money for replacement of the supply. The big thing to watch, is to get a power supply that matches the size of the one you took out. I am particulalry fond of MicroCenter, and I know there's one in the Bay area, but you may not be particularly close to it.

ns
 
...They should outlaw packaged systems. But I was the dubmy that bought it.:o ...

What should they outlaw then :p !

As the previous 2 posters have indicated it would be possible to upgrade your PSU but I would strongly advise you to cut your losses and save up for a decent new PC - which will, of course, be out of date on the day you take delivery!

Cheers
 
GETTING THE EVEN Km.

It puzzles me really, that Auran didn't make one baseboard to be 1Km even, meaning that if you laid 5 baseboards in a row, or say 10, 20, 50, you would have the even length of 5, 10, 20, 50 etc Km in the metric measure, making it a lot easier for those in countries where Metric is the go...

Maybe if you were in a country where imperial was the go, each baseboard should be the even mile, and this should have been made to sync in with where you go to alter your environment or when you go to make a new layout, and it asks you whether you want real scale, etc, and you choose to use metric or imperial.

I have to wonder why the even size of the baseboard was not synced in with you choice of using metric or imperial, instead of just making a default 720X720, which to most of us is totally ridiculous... and causes much confusion...

Just say for instance that if you chose 'real scale' and you were working in miles, you should get a baseboard to equal one mile even, not 1/2 or 1/3 of a mile or whatever, and if you chose metric, you would get a baseboard the even mile.

Yes I have to agree that the flaw is in the sim, when TRS was first designed...

I know how frustrating it can be, and all the rulers you can get in TRS would not fix the real problem... and what good is a 720X720 mtr baseboard?.. regardless of whose maths is out or correct...

Wouldn't it have been much easier for us if we knew that regardless of whether we were working in metric or imperial, one baseboard was made equal to the even Km or the Even Mile, and that could have been done in that bit where in surveyor you go and decide on your scale and measure language (metric or imperial) when you click on 'create new'.

It would have eliminated all this confusion...Could Auran/N3V do that in future versions of TRS?...Just an idea... but worth thinking about:)

On the topic of layouts, I don't make layouts any bigger than my computer isi capable of making without crashing, then if I poist one to the DLS, I can feel a lot more confident that others will be able to run my layout without too much stress on their computers, take that masive Avery Drexel... and another couple of huge layouts in TRS 10... Avery Drexel as good as it is, just crashes my reasonably good Laptop... every time I use it... Mojave is borderline....

I prefer to stick to say 20 basebards of size max, or maybe not too many more... the old Wadalbavale to Kurrah Bay was nearly boarderline too in terms of runability unless you had a gaming machine capable of running huge layouts....I also try to mimimise the amount of buildings etc on them and make them as good as I can without making them boring and bland and not very scenic or over done.
 
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