Backdating question.

Zeldaboy14

Owner of ZPW.
This is been on my mind for a while, and maybe the Trainz Community can solve it for my. Why is backdating a object from Trainz 2012 to Trainz 2010/2009 so simple, but backdating an object from Trainz 2012,2010,2009, Trainz Classics 1 and 2 to Trainz 2006/2004 so hard. I really have never fully understood this.
 
Ahh, but why would the game be moved to three engine's over the course of Trainz? I mean, New Era is a completely scratch built engine, and is the 4th engine that the game is going to be on, but why have the past 2 been basically the same as gen 1's engine?
 
but why have the past 2 been basically the same as gen 1's engine?

Do you want to reconsider this (possibly ignorant) statement?

trainzsp3.jpg



tjp6.jpg
 
Deliberately making content for earlier versions of Trainz is only going to give you a future maintenance problem. So, unless there is a particularly good reason I don't see the point. I might make an exception for TS10 since a lot of folk have problems with TS12 but that's it.

Hopefully T:ANE will be so good that folk will want to give up using TS04, TS06, etc. Don't get me wrong, I loved TS04, and especially the little Ooom guys, but I prefer to use the latest version.
 
You can see a big difference in the two Screenshots posted.... I think TS12 has a newer engine as the details look better than TS09/10, especially how it has speedtreez.

If T:ANE is better in details, physics, and able to render large high poly scenery spots then I'll probably end up moving the Geelong-Queenscliff route I'm working on to T:ANE rather than TS12 PRE-SP1 along with WIP Steam Locomotives and rollingstock.

TS09 is soon to have it's support removed so it'll be just 10, 12 and T:ANE.

Cheers.
 
It's all very well saying that we hope T:ANE will be good enough to finish off 04/06 for good but the other side of that is that many people won't have a computer capable of running it. I'm not having a go at the creators when I say that (I'm genuinely thrilled that they're going all out to create something so epic even if it is more demanding on computers), I'm just stating a fact! But hopefully people will at least move up to 10 or 12.
 
My advice is to build routes in lower versions 04, 06, UTC, and use them as a simplistic surveyor route building tool only ... and import the routes into 09, 10, 12 or T:ANE
 
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Excellent advice as usual Cascade. Through this technique the user will also get to experience the joys of 10m grid, old and/or outdated content and missing dependencies on import. I'm surprised nobody else does this.
 
Deliberately making content for earlier versions of Trainz is only going to give you a future maintenance problem. So, unless there is a particularly good reason I don't see the point. I might make an exception for TS10 since a lot of folk have problems with TS12 but that's it.

Hopefully T:ANE will be so good that folk will want to give up using TS04, TS06, etc. Don't get me wrong, I loved TS04, and especially the little Ooom guys, but I prefer to use the latest version.

I think that one reason people will NOT give up using older versions is economics. For example, I use TS10 because I couldn't afford TS12. Since I enjoy 10, I see no reason to spend MORE money to update. There are plenty of reasons why people don't upgrade, and cost is often the main one. Even though you might argue that WIN 7 is better then Vista or XP, if you use XP and it works for you, why spend the $$.

So, I don't upgrade to TS12. Why can't I have updated goodies?
 
This is been on my mind for a while, and maybe the Trainz Community can solve it for my. Why is backdating a object from Trainz 2012 to Trainz 2010/2009 so simple, but backdating an object from Trainz 2012,2010,2009, Trainz Classics 1 and 2 to Trainz 2006/2004 so hard. I really have never fully understood this.

Much of this has to do with scripting and other game engine features that are not available in the earlier versions. Some stuff made for TRS2004, for example, had product queues for use with interactive industries. This will not work in previous versions without hacking out the script from the assets. There have also been some graphics changes such as the way alpha channels and normal maps are now handled. This was unheard of in the earlier versions, and the references to these files causes errors in the assets.

Granted, with some work, some of the more basic assets can be backdated, but why would you want to use a much more unstable product? Even with all its warts and bumps, TS12 is a far better product than UTC or even TRS2004. Many people here forget the hassles we had with the earlier products and yearn for the olden days through rosy glasses and bright lights. TRS2004 was not the best product until SP4 came out, and then that was beat out later by TRS2006, which was built on TRS2004 but with more features. Sure these programs can run on lesser hardware and take up less space, but so do many things. Remember too that there were less capabilities built into them in the first place. A good example is traffic. Up to TRS2004 SP1 road traffic went up elevators or stairs instead of following the terrain. We were warned at the time this was pushed by the community that it would have an impact on performance. We laugh at things such as this today, based on what we have for computers, but at the time these programs were bringing that very hardware to its knees. In fact up to TRS2009, there was a buffering data bar that would appear. In TRS2006 and up through TS2009, this was an option in the trainzoptions.txt (I think...), but prior to that it was always visible. This bar would show up when data was being loaded, and would persist on the screen when things got a bit rough on the computer. Probably today this wouldn't appear with the older products, and since then it has been deprecated as an option.

Yes like any product, whether it's computer software or a tangible good, the previous version is usually the basis for the newest release. If it wasn't for this, we'd still have version 1.0 of everything. So even pianos, automobiles, even light bulbs and computers will have some old stuff in them from previous versions. In fact pianos are based on technology that was initially designed and invented in 1700! It took another 120 years before the modern escapement was developed by Erard, and another 45 years after that for the first full ironl plate to be created by Chickering from Boston. The action of a mid-19th century grand piano is the same, or very similar to what is found in a modern instrument. Action in a late 1880s piano is exactly the same. The differences are some improvements in materials and tolerances, but the mechanical design is pretty much the same. We can say the same for railroads and the development of the various components. Yes, technology has changed but the underlying principals of engineering are still there. Even electrical service and the theories behind AC transmission are the same. I recently came across my great grandfather's engineering books from the early 1920s - he was an electrical engineer for the Boston Edison Company. His books have the same theorems I learned while I was taking electrical engineering classes in 1980!

John
 
So, I don't upgrade to TS12. Why can't I have updated goodies?

Are you being serious?

That like saying "I drive a 1980s Ford Fiesta. Why can't I have an Ecoboost motor, climate control, cruise control, satnav, bluetooth and a Bose surround sound system?"

Unbelievable.
 
Are you being serious?

That like saying "I drive a 1980s Ford Fiesta. Why can't I have an Ecoboost motor, climate control, cruise control, satnav, bluetooth and a Bose surround sound system?"

Unbelievable.
You know there are ways to let someone know they haven't thought it through without always being a sarcastic ass. Think it through. // Frank
 
Back dating an item of content might also be outside the liceance and creators wishers.

I get at least 5 emails a week from people who are trying to run locomotive in a version of trainz it is not designed and are wanting my help to get it to work for them. My replies are often quite curt.
 
Do you want to reconsider this (possibly ignorant) statement?

trainzsp3.jpg



tjp6.jpg
Well, I never played the original TRAINZ, so what would I know? :p Like I stated in about 20 other posts before, I was introduced to Trainz because 1: SI3D Films and 2: Trainz 2006 Driver and Hawes Demo's.
 
I think that one reason people will NOT give up using older versions is economics....

Yes, that's a valid reason, and even more so for the potential hardware cost upgrade as someone else pointed out. My apologies for not considering that. It's been a while since I had to live from payday to payday.

Note that I still have TS04 in its box plus every other version in the banner with my name. But I only have TS10 and TS12 installed. Every version was outstanding in its day.
 
04, 06, UTC, TC1&2, TC3 will run on low end integrated graphics PC's ... 09, 10, 12 will not

09, 10, 12 have speed trees, and complicated layers ... 04, 06, UTC, TC1&2, TC3 do not
 
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