A Sad End to an Epic Run for Me with Trainz.

davesnow said:
LOL! Yeah I'm hoping they leave TRS19 alone!!
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So am I. Having created a Huge Layout in TRS22 PE I've found there is some stuff that doesn't work as easily as it did in TRS19. I got into a tangle with surveyor 2.0, which is a complete mystery to me, and I've now decided to go back to TRS19. Unfortunately I can't get it to import the Huge Layout to the TRS19 CM because of three dependency errors that persist whatever I do, so after many weeks of work I have to start again.

Hey ho, it's a chance to do it better this time. Pass the Stay Awake pills, please.
 
Orpheus2000 said:
So am I. Having created a Huge Layout in TRS22 PE I've found there is some stuff that doesn't work as easily as it did in TRS19. I got into a tangle with surveyor 2.0, which is a complete mystery to me, and I've now decided to go back to TRS19. Unfortunately I can't get it to import the Huge Layout to the TRS19 CM because of three dependency errors that persist whatever I do, so after many weeks of work I have to start again.

Hey ho, it's a chance to do it better this time. Pass the Stay Awake pills, please.
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As always, keep the old while working with the new until the new is working the way it's supposed to. It's an old IT thing that has stuck with me even though I'm retired.

As far as S2.0 goes, you can always dip your toes in there while using "Classic Surveyor". I've done this all along and now I'm doing a few more things in S2.0 as I get used to the very cluttered interface. There are some good features in there such as the scrap book and the ability to do some tasks much quicker such as moving and adjusting objects and splines, and working with textures.
 
pware said:
...

I, for one, would not want the marketing department (and N3V, as far as I know, are too small to have a marketing department) of any subscription service that I had decided to terminate hounding me for reasons why I left. Those reasons are mine and none of their business.

...
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Actually, several apps I've uninstalled send you to their survey page where they ask why you are leaving. I see it as a way for them to improve their product based on why most people don't want to use their app. If those changes happen to fix my gripes, who knows, I might give it another try in the future.
 
martinvk said:
a way for them to improve their product
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... or a means of allowing them to tick the "good customer service" box? But maybe that is just the cynic in me.

My partner and I are constantly bombarded by emails from our local supermarket chain listing "specials" based on our past purchase history (gleaned by using their customer "rewards" card). Most recently they have concentrated on one product we used to purchase from them but have since found a far cheaper source. Filling out their survey form on why we have changed our supplier (price was the only reason) for this somewhat expensive product has made no difference. We still get the emails and their price has not changed. There is a similar story for other products/suppliers.
 
pware said:
Not sure if that is a criticism or an endorsement.

I, for one, would not want the marketing department (and N3V, as far as I know, are too small to have a marketing department) of any subscription service that I had decided to terminate hounding me for reasons why I left. Those reasons are mine and none of their business.

But even if they did what would you have expected them to say or do? Offer a reduced subscription just to you to keep your business? I would certainly object to that.

Again, N3V is too small to have an employee keeping full time track of how much each customer has spent over the years.

Each of us has our own financial and family situations that decide what we can afford to do or not to do. Your circumstances have changed and you have made a decision that is appropriate to those circumstances.
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In the first year of the Trainz Gold Plus+ subscription I did receive an email from N3V asking me why I was cancelling and giving me all the expected arguments about how cheap it really was (cup of coffee arguement) as well as how I would get first punt at any new stuff. My reply was along the lines of me being fed up with my work being constantly broken by their buggy 'updates' and that their new DLC didn't interest me in the slightest since it wasn't relevant to either the era or the country's railways that I model. And that was the last that I heard from them.
 
KotangaGirl said:
My reply was along the lines of me being fed up with my work being constantly broken by their buggy 'updates' and that their new DLC didn't interest me in the slightest since it wasn't relevant to either the era or the country's railways that I model
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and did your reply change either of those two issues - no more "buggy" updates and more DLC covering the region and era that interests you (I am guessing British steam railways)?

Sorry, but I have developed a cynicism about internet (or other) opinion surveys, especially "exit" surveys. While they can be useful for the organisation pushing them (if they actually read them) but the conclusions that can be drawn from the responses can often be contradictory ("too much emphasis" on British steam railways for example) or meaningless. And that is from personal experience in running and/or analysing such surveys at my place of employment. I will even admit to "stuffing the ballot box" in an employee survey with overwhelming "No" votes but management reported (falsely) an overwhelming "Yes" vote to their proposed changes.

My opinions and experiences.
 
Keep 'em coming! I also am plagued by the need to decline many cookies beyond "necessary" save. Then, like an uninvited salesman, I have to go through the whole procedure again
Think I will open a route for edit and bomb, bomb.:devilish:
 
JCitron said:
As always, keep the old while working with the new until the new is working the way it's supposed to. It's an old IT thing that has stuck with me even though I'm retired.

As far as S2.0 goes, you can always dip your toes in there while using "Classic Surveyor". I've done this all along and now I'm doing a few more things in S2.0 as I get used to the very cluttered interface. There are some good features in there such as the scrap book and the ability to do some tasks much quicker such as moving and adjusting objects and splines, and working with textures.
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One thing I came unstuck on was the Surveyor 2.0 "Classic Surveyor" when I tried to get container train freight cars to match the container station freight. I fiddled about for some hours with no luck. I'm too old (= life is now too short) to learn how to use the Surveyor 2.00 new and complicated tools. I do, however, like the ability to interrupt a session, edit the route, then continue the session. Very handy, but there's a steep learning curve for the rest and now I just want to play trains until I reach the buffers.🚂🙂
 
Orpheus2000 said:
One thing I came unstuck on was the Surveyor 2.0 "Classic Surveyor" when I tried to get container train freight cars to match the container station freight. I fiddled about for some hours with no luck. I'm too old (= life is now too short) to learn how to use the Surveyor 2.00 new and complicated tools. I do, however, like the ability to interrupt a session, edit the route, then continue the session. Very handy, but there's a steep learning curve for the rest and now I just want to play trains until I reach the buffers.🚂🙂
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Yeah, the "new way" of adding commodities is very confusing and it's the same interface in Classic as well! It took me a bit to figure it out and that was by clicking around, and I'm still not sure what I did.

What has always annoyed me about N3V is how they throw stuff at us without any documentation behind it rather than supplying some how-to information along with the changes. Even for someone like me who has been involved in technology and with Trainz for many years, this is confusing. I can well imagine the nightmare this causes for those that are less technical and are new to the program.

Surveyor 2.0 is totally new and thank gawd we can go back to the old. As I said, I jump back and forth as needed. What I do like about S2.0 is the ability to select a whole rail line of a specific type of track and apply the condition parameter to it as I did with some rusty track on a route. I set this to 1% condition because it's a hardly maintained branch line that sees freight switching duties only.

The new UDS is great for unsticking drivers during driving session and for testing. I have used it sparingly to update a session because doing so can put drivers out of position and end up ruining the session. It's too bad that there wasn't the ability to reset consists to their starting positions along with reset the driver rules because resetting their driving schedules really messes things up worse.
 
Going to be the contrarian again but I really like S2.0. Just being able to easily find broken track joints is worth the price of admission. When I double click on a track segment, the whole track section between two junctions get highlighted. If the highlight stops before reaching the next junction, there is a break in the track, i.e. a spline point that appears to be joined it not. Same thing with selecting and modifying parameters for multiple objects at the same time. And seeing all the layers with their state, (in)visible / (un)locked makes it so much easier to keep objects on the correct layer. At a minimum I always have separate layers for tracks, buildings, roads and guides, plus others as they are needed.

While not strictly an S2.0 thing, being able to jump back and forth between Surveyor and Driver makes it a lot easier to make modifications on the fly, things that somehow never seem obvious until going for a ride.

It helps to have a wide screen or at least a larger one so that the central working area is not too small.
 
Unless they get it together and just do as the customer like myself says, more people will leave and eventually could lead to N3V's downfall much like Auran. Fixing the digholes or discontinuing them, changing or doing away with achievements, switching standard control for AI drivers from DCC to CAB Mode are some things that need to be addressed. While we're at it, the functionality of industries needs to be changed too. This is why I clamored for boycotts for this exact same reason. Destroying their bottom line will force them to appease the customer base. That's what the need to do.
 
AdvancedApproach said:
Unless they get it together and just do as the customer like myself says, more people will leave and eventually could lead to N3V's downfall much like Auran. Fixing the digholes or discontinuing them, changing or doing away with achievements, switching standard control for AI drivers from DCC to CAB Mode are some things that need to be addressed. While we're at it, the functionality of industries needs to be changed too. This is why I clamored for boycotts for this exact same reason. Destroying their bottom line will force them to appease the customer base. That's what the need to do.
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YEAH RIGHT!!!

You can only please some of the people some of the time, YOU CAN NOT please ALL the people ALL the time.:p
 
pware said:
But what if what you want done is exactly the opposite of what I want done?

Most definitely NOT - there, we are on opposite sides already without even trying.
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Why not? It makes it look far more realistic. AI Drivers use dynamic breaking to power their trains even on straight and level track. Even on inclines as well. Dynamic breaking was designed for descending grades. There's a reason why it's never used for any other application in real world railroading.
 
AdvancedApproach said:
Why not?
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Then I would ask why a Cab Mode "enthusiast" would ever want to use the AI in Cab Mode (or even use the AI for that matter)? The user is not in control of the train so why bother? And, if your point about the AI not using Cab Mode realistically is correct, then that is another reason for not changing the standard AI interface from the Basic controls to the Cab controls. In any case I do all my manual and AI driving in Basic mode and do not touch Cab mode.
 
AdvancedApproach said:
more people will leave
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Are you a politician by any chance? Too often in these forums we see statements like "everyone agrees with me", "the majority of posters believe" and now "more people will leave [because N3V will not do what I want]". But when you count the posts in the thread the "everyone" and "majority of posters" becomes 1, 2, 3 or 4 out of what may be hundreds of posts in the thread (many may be by the same people).
 
pware said:
Too often in these forums we see statements like "everyone agrees with me", "the majority of posters believe" and now "more people will leave [because N3V will not do what I want]". But when you count the posts in the thread the "everyone" and "majority of posters" becomes 1, 2, 3 or 4 out of what may be hundreds of posts in the thread (many may be by the same people).
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So true, we do have more than our fair share of people who when unable to support their opinions resort to straw man arguments.
 
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