Furthermore, Macs are more difficult that a pc laptop anyway, and unless done in the approved way with the approved parts aand by the approved people (in other words, the most expensive way) will void your warranty and mean that an approved repairer can no longer touch your machine for any issue.
A pensioner's point of view
- Thread starter pinkmundi
- Start date
A good question - why does Trainz stuff provoke such an emotional response. All of the quickly amortized hardware and software is accepted as the normal. But T:ANE suffers the same depreciation as other software so why the uproar?
Maybe because people pore more of themselves into the program - they create. That makes everything more personal. Some customers create exceptional assets that took time and made them feel good. Others feel the same with rolling stock, routes, scenery and even sessions. There are a very large amount of people hours in this product line. It just is not sitting in a virtual cab and keeping to schedule without violating the speed restrictions. No, it is lots of hard work and the pride one sees when others also get pleasure from their efforts.
Personally I enjoy taking a good route and try to make it look better, at least to myself. Adding and subtracting to get it to look just a little more real. A crash of the program costs me time and effort. It is difficult to work on something only to have a tool constantly break or become dull. You might just become angry.
Just a thought as why a game, and its foibles, generates less angst than a program that promotes creative effort.
For my fellow pensioner - I would try to determine what aspect of the Trainz products gives me the most pleasure.Then decide which product is best suited. Assume you are a signaling fanatic. There TS2012 should serve you well. Route creation, again TS2012 but maybe with only assets that fit the requirements of T:ANE just in case that lottery ticket is magic. However, if you want to make assets that look terrific you probably have to use T:ANE with is manageable lighting. The point is that you probably have to balance your budget against your goals.
Maybe because people pore more of themselves into the program - they create. That makes everything more personal. Some customers create exceptional assets that took time and made them feel good. Others feel the same with rolling stock, routes, scenery and even sessions. There are a very large amount of people hours in this product line. It just is not sitting in a virtual cab and keeping to schedule without violating the speed restrictions. No, it is lots of hard work and the pride one sees when others also get pleasure from their efforts.
Personally I enjoy taking a good route and try to make it look better, at least to myself. Adding and subtracting to get it to look just a little more real. A crash of the program costs me time and effort. It is difficult to work on something only to have a tool constantly break or become dull. You might just become angry.
Just a thought as why a game, and its foibles, generates less angst than a program that promotes creative effort.
For my fellow pensioner - I would try to determine what aspect of the Trainz products gives me the most pleasure.Then decide which product is best suited. Assume you are a signaling fanatic. There TS2012 should serve you well. Route creation, again TS2012 but maybe with only assets that fit the requirements of T:ANE just in case that lottery ticket is magic. However, if you want to make assets that look terrific you probably have to use T:ANE with is manageable lighting. The point is that you probably have to balance your budget against your goals.
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This is an excellent point, and somewhat compassionate. I like this reply.
ray_whiley
Active member
Excellent comment. No matter which version of Trainz you use, you can have FUN - and that's the reason for having a hobby. I still use TRS2004 on my XP desktop and fairly simple laptop. I prefer TS10 on the desktop but have many fewer downloads than I collected for 2004 - although my own 2004 creations seem to be OK in 10. As for TS12, I'm not keen. And I don't intend to upgrade my computer for TANE.
Finally, I thought one of the rules of these forums was not to be abusive? Calling someone a fool or an idiot for having an opinion is certainly not acceptable.
Ray
Finally, I thought one of the rules of these forums was not to be abusive? Calling someone a fool or an idiot for having an opinion is certainly not acceptable.
Ray
I usually use a simple procedure that probably most people don't even think about.
It goes like this: "If you don't want to be called an idiot, then don't act like one."
Pretty simple.
LNERlover5
Average Grad
Rather than provide a counter argument, you resorted to petty name calling. That's all this is in the end, debating opinions, although you seem to have taken it personally.
So here is mine. No other video game producer really provides extended support for very long. TS12 will have had a good 5 years come it's life cycle expiration date, which compared to many other software titles is very good. As far as having an alternative product to move on to, T:ANE currently isn't much, however we have another year to work on that, and the progress as of now looks good.
To the argument I have seen regarding the life cycle of Windows XP, XP was a significant OS utilised by governments, private businesses and military institutions that wouldn't function without it being reasonably secure, and they were willing to pay Microsoft large sums to keep it wheezing on, something we won't be doing as average people buying a train simulator once every few years. If someone can't afford T:ANE, how can said individual be expected to pay a share for the staff members to maintain TS12?
If you really want to continue using older software, at no point have I said you shouldn't, it's completely up to you and I won't make degrading comments for your opinion. What I will say is that N3V should be looking forward, not backwards. These older titles (TRS2004, TRS2006, TC3, etc) had their moment, however it makes more sense to be working and maintaining current products, not the outdated ones. This mentality is why I don't create content below TS12 SP1 HF4, I would rather make better content using more polygons and higher resolution textures for platforms that make use of parallelisation, and in T:ANE's case, better GPU workflow. Better software and content may attract newer people to the brand, something we would all benefit from.
Debate me, don't insult me.
Jack
There is a difference between Trainz and other software, we paid upfront for TANE because we regard this as much of a community affair than a business. In return we expect N3V to consider the views of users who cannot at the moment afford to upgrade but who may in the future and consequently buy TANE. A number of businesses value customer loyalty and it is certainly necessary with a niche product like Trainz.
Ken
Ken
I agree 100%, that's why I know a variety of situations that you could be called one, so that I can still use this:
Person who's been called one a lot throughout his short life said:
I did and you failed to read it correctly because of your inability to think. You're inability to think is why poor managment flourishes and you'll never see the TANE, that you, me, and everybody here wishes to see.
LNERlover5
Average Grad
You're incredible, even now you're still resorting to insulting me rather than providing a solid counter-argument.
However, my belief that N3V should be focusing their energy and resources into T:ANE is the reason we won't see it be as good as it can be? That actually makes no sense.
Jack
However, my belief that N3V should be focusing their energy and resources into T:ANE is the reason we won't see it be as good as it can be? That actually makes no sense.
Jack
Unfortunately, you're changing your tune now. You never said that. The argument you provided to both me and Nicky make 0 sense at all. You said you were fine with what was going on (Which I'm sure that you're reading the same white virtual paper with the same letters printed in black virtual ink) isn't exactly good. That is, unless me and you are not reading the same thing. I suggest you go check out the threads in the TANE section and report back to me what you find, and then you can tell me all about how my high-end computer is garbage, is loaded with cathair, has a virus, needs cleaned, needs this or that, and avoid the solid truth.
johnwhelan
Well-known member
If you really want to know if your computer is full of cat hair I suggest taking the side off perhaps?
I'm lost with what you are trying to say, there was a reference to management in there which I don't recall from earlier in the thread. A number of threads about TANE have now been taken down including the infamous post by windwalkr showing his GTX 980 system displaying 7 fps on a builtin route.
I do get the impression that what I read and retain is quite different to what you read and retain.
>"You never said that."
At the moment all is not wonderful with TANE and I think we are agreed on that but I'm not certain. However with the effort that the community has put into identifying faults etc I feel that after service pack one is released there is some hope for it. Whether we can get the content moved into TANE is another issue. There have been a number of posts from content creators about the effort required to clean things up and how it has become a chore rather than a hobby.
If your high end computer does not have a GX 980 or equivalent then as far as running TANE with the sliders at anything other than to the left then it probably can be considered garbage.
Perhaps if you were to think more clearly what you are trying to say before posting we might be more able to understand what you are trying to communicate?
Cheerio John
Neither Fallout 4 nor GTA V have to contend with trying to render scenes full of amateur made, hideously high poly content with dozens of materials and no LOD at 10 km+ draw distances- such are the joys of backwards compatibility...
R3
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LNERlover5
Average Grad
I don't think there is anyway to manage this without upsetting someone... An extreme example would be abandoning how Trainz presently functions for newer, more efficient methods. The offset being lack of any compatibility with current content. In the long term the solution may be better but it would never see light of day because everyone bar anyone who sees it as viable would complain endlessly.
The solution we do have is rigorous asset validation within T:ANE, however that doesn't stop people from uploading under a lower build number for the time being, that and there was a stream of complaints that crap content wasn't getting through. The majority of the complaints will have been regarding the fact that early on the validation didn't work correctly, but we're past that now.
Jack
T:ANE was advertised as a completely new software engine allowing many new facilities and "reality enhancers". Inevitably this required high end hardware. It also seems to require better-made content if the new software processes are not to run foul of high poly counts, poor or no LOD and an old-fashioned primitive look to the assets building a route & scenarios.
It's always seemed a mistake, to me, that T:ANE wasn't marketed unequivocally as "entirely new" with old content banned unless it reached a very high standard. The "high standard" should have included the ability to pass not just the necessary technical standards but also the subjective standard of "looks very realistic in T:ANE". This would need a human arbiter to make what inevitably would be something of a subjective judgement. So be it, if the result is not only T:ANE content that works without endless fixing or glitches but also looks as good as the new T:ANE environment can make it.
Otherwise we just have TS12 with a few extra shadows, some new assets that make the many older assets look even worse in comparison and not a lot more.
And the old content .....? It doesn't become redundant as it still performs just as well as it ever did in previous version of Trainz for which it was made. Personally I still get as much pleasure from TS12 as I did before T:ANE appeared. Also, a good portion of older content (once fixed by the creator, for everyone, in one go) is probably good enough for T:ANE.
When high quality content and routes mature for T:ANE I'll start to use it more. Well .... I will when it's various other built-in glitches are eradicated by SP1, 2, 3, ?
As to being a poor pensioner .... well, this is life. I can't afford a Rolls Royce either. There are alternatives often 95% as good and 10% of the price. For example, TS12 on an existing computer rather than T:ANE on a new computer costing at least £1200 or £600 in upgrades.
Lataxe
Another Babble thread. If I were a moderator this is one I would close. If someone has a technical/performance issue it looks lost to me and perhaps a non-emotional new message is in order. Emotion driven Ranting on here just makes the "ranter" look odd. Repeating the same tired arguments over and over is indeed insanity.
So true but if people keep bringing up the same old tired false assertions should they be ignored at the risk of becoming accepted by sheer repetition or should they be challenged? In an ideal world, software should succeed or fail on its own merits but in the real world, rumors and gainsaying can sink the best of the lot. No need to sugarcoat but no need to exaggerate its flaws either.