A humble request for the staff to rethink how they handled the situation

[JCitron]

I do agree with you on your points, and they are pretty good point. Really, it shouldn't have gotten to the point that it did, and the situation seems to be exacerbated by Tony, the CEO of the company, openly defending the actions of the troublemaker in the public forum. Quite frankly, it makes his downtime message about us "thinking about what we did" very disingenuous and makes it seem like the entire forum should feel shame about people getting upset when a troublemaking user was allowed to continue to ignore the CoC.

In any case, the public execution approach would have been much better than the blanket ban of all users for 48 hours. This approach is, as its name implies, very publically banning the offending individual and the apologizing for it not happening sooner, as well as apologizing for the defense of him by the CEO. You don't throw out your entire refrigerator just because a piece of cheese gets moldy,you just throw out the piece of cheese. Of course, you probably shouldn't keep the cheese in there because that mold will surely spread.

I agree, but he wasn't just the only troublemaker and like many of us was a victim as well and eventually lashed out. He was not only tormented here by a certain group, they followed him elsewhere as well. Unfortunately, he chose the forums here to release his frustration. I am in no way justifying anyone's actions and have remained pretty much out of fray that occurred as I too found the forums very uncomfortable and to be honest very stressful.

And yes, Bill has summed this up well. We should just move on now and continue being Trainzers and discussing Trainz. trains both real and virtual.

 

[robogo]

But......, but......, but is it even possible to have cheese without mold, or bacteria?

 

[n8phu]

I agree, but he wasn't just the only troublemaker and like many of us was a victim as well and eventually lashed out. He was not only tormented here by a certain group, they followed him elsewhere as well. Unfortunately, he chose the forums here to release his frustration. I am in no way justifying anyone's actions and have remained pretty much out of fray that occurred as I too found the forums very uncomfortable and to be honest very stressful.

And yes, Bill has summed this up well. We should just move on now and continue being Trainzers and discussing Trainz. trains both real and virtual.

I would humbly suggest that showing sympathy to the one that riled people up might not be such a good idea. I also think that now that things simmered down, you might want to just let it go about people, lest things get stirred up again.

I also believe we can get in trouble for bringing up things that happened on another forum outside of here. Running to the management here about something that happened out side of here might not have the outcome that you might be looking for.

We wouldn't want everyone to have to go to the time out corner again, would we?

 

[Zeldaboy14]

I would humbly suggest that showing sympathy to the one that riled people up might not be such a good idea. I also think that now that things simmer down, you might want to just let it go about people, lest things get stirred up again.

I also believe we can get in trouble for bringing up things that happened on another forum outside of here. Running to the management here about something that happened out side of here might not have the outcome that you might be looking for.

We wouldn't want everyone to have to go to the time out corner again, would we?

Well spoken. I think we should continue on with either delivering Passangers or freight, and make great rails to great destinations. After all, we are the Trainz Communtiy, where a train is only a mouse click away.

 

[shaneturner12]

Indeed - what has happened has happened, it's effectively water under the bridge. The best thing we can do is to simply let previous things go and continue as a community.

Shane

 

[jadebullet]

I would just prefer if Tony Hilliam would make a public apology for accusing every trainz forums member of being bad, when in fact, it not only was pretty much one member, but that Tony actively defended said member's actions. What his "everyone needs to think about what they did" message said to me was that my sitting back, providing the occasional piece of historical information and constructive criticism, as well as being pretty polite to people, was wrong and that I should feel bad and think about what I did.

Quite frankly, it would go a long way to fix the damage to the community's reputation as a whole, as right now we are pretty much the laughing stock of the train simulator community, and it doesn't really help the reputation of virtual modeling as a part of the greater model railroading community.

Quite frankly, I worry about the sim itself, since if n3v ends up going under, it severely hampers the usability of TANE, and quite frankly, I have no faith in the current CEO based on his inability to handle what should have been a simple piece of forum moderation.



I do agree though, that we should let the event that transpired lie. The user is banned, and what is done is done. Really, the focus is more on the issue that allowed to to escalate to where it did in the first place.

 

[n8phu]

Indeed, it should have never come to what it did.... The banned user had displayed behavior even before that incident that would get others instantly banned.

 

[shaneturner12]

Agreed, although none of us can turn the clock back unfortunately.

Shane

 

[jadebullet]

No, but we can make sure it doesn't happen again. And that's the important thing.

 

[shaneturner12]

I completely agree with you, and hopefully the updated Code of Conduct as well as the community working together will go some way to helping the community to achieve that aim.

Shane

 

[rjhowie]

I'm feeling lost as I didn't know what sparked things off. It's like me being a staunch Glaswegian dumped in Edinburgh for a day.

 

[Mike10]

also on that occasion stated a wish that physical harm would befall certain members or groups of members.

Whilst not supporting or condoning his actions, in the interest of fairness, some people do not believe that is what he meant at all and that his comment had been misinterpreted.

"the member reporting the thread"
"the member who had reported the posting,"
"the person who was to make the post"
"the member proposing the above action"

Are you being modest for some reason, could you not just say "me"?

There was then a rapid, polite but realistic exchange between ( I believe it was) three members

One of which was me, or should I say "some other forum member"

 

[shaneturner12]

It's fairly complex rjhowie - even I've lost track of it.

Shane

 

[Enzo1]

I would just prefer if Tony Hilliam would make a public apology for accusing every trainz forums member of being bad, when in fact, it not only was pretty much one member, but that Tony actively defended said member's actions. What his "everyone needs to think about what they did" message said to me was that my sitting back, providing the occasional piece of historical information and constructive criticism, as well as being pretty polite to people, was wrong and that I should feel bad and think about what I did.

Quite frankly, it would go a long way to fix the damage to the community's reputation as a whole, as right now we are pretty much the laughing stock of the train simulator community, and it doesn't really help the reputation of virtual modeling as a part of the greater model railroading community.

Quite frankly, I worry about the sim itself, since if n3v ends up going under, it severely hampers the usability of TANE, and quite frankly, I have no faith in the current CEO based on his inability to handle what should have been a simple piece of forum moderation.



I do agree though, that we should let the event that transpired lie. The user is banned, and what is done is done. Really, the focus is more on the issue that allowed to to escalate to where it did in the first place.

You're not going to get a nice answer from Tony. We paid our money and we didn't get what we want, and the way he feels is that it is too bad that we didn't. But again, after all, he did say that it would be everything we wanted. I now understand the people from the start that said the kickstarter thing is a bad idea. Well it has turned out to be more than just a bad idea, it's a catastrophic disaster zone that I don't think we will emerge from. It's so bad, that now we can't even criticize something that we paid for our right to criticize. Oh well, at least somebody is happy I guess

 

[jadebullet]

I still think that updating the CoC was a pointless gesture that just made it more strict for no reason, since, from what I have seen, the CoC was violated in its previous form and no action was taken. And unfortunately, as we learned recently, all it takes is one person acting like a tool, to screw up everything, especially when they are allowed to violate the CoC with impunity.

Quite frankly, a better change would have been to shift to a more transparent form of moderation. When a user does something wrong with a post, the moderator edits said post, and red text appears. People are far less likely to break the rules on a forum when they know that they will be publicly put on display when they do something wrong. Deleting the post and privately scolding the member doesn't really do much. It also allows for moderation without abuse.

 

[martinvk]

I was away for the weekend so missed the whole show and thus don't have first hand knowledge of what exactly transpired here. I do know that in the weeks and months previous, there were more and more posts openly insulting some members and N3V staff, instead of criticizing the product. In hindsight that should have been dealt with sooner but what is done is done. Is it now really necessary to revisit what happened over and over again? And then to to paint the banned person as totally to blame and everyone else involved as totally innocent?

 

[Enzo1]

I was away for the weekend so missed the whole show and thus don't have first hand knowledge of what exactly transpired here. I do know that in the weeks and months previous, there were more and more posts openly insulting some members and N3V staff, instead of criticizing the product. In hindsight that should have been dealt with sooner but what is done is done. Is it now really necessary to revisit what happened over and over again? And then to to paint the banned person as totally to blame and everyone else involved as totally innocent?

Well they weren't listen to us in our criticism of the product. Maybe they'd listen better when we crticize them and call them what they truly are.

 

[jadebullet]

You're not going to get a nice answer from Tony. We paid our money and we didn't get what we want, and the way he feels is that it is too bad that we didn't. But again, after all, he did say that it would be everything we wanted. I now understand the people from the start that said the kickstarter thing is a bad idea. Well it has turned out to be more than just a bad idea, it's a catastrophic disaster zone that I don't think we will emerge from. It's so bad, that now we can't even criticize something that we paid for our right to criticize. Oh well, at least somebody is happy I guess

Oh, I wasn't talking about with TANE, I was more talking about with the crap this weekend where he shut down the forum because he decided that just banning the user who was causing constant, and inappropriate trouble wasn't doing enough, especially since it meant backtracking on him defending said user.

As I said before, I am fine with TANE. It is exactly what I expected it would be.

 

[shaneturner12]

You're not going to get a nice answer from Tony. We paid our money and we didn't get what we want, and the way he feels is that it is too bad that we didn't. But again, after all, he did say that it would be everything we wanted. I now understand the people from the start that said the kickstarter thing is a bad idea. Well it has turned out to be more than just a bad idea, it's a catastrophic disaster zone that I don't think we will emerge from. It's so bad, that now we can't even criticize something that we paid for our right to criticize. Oh well, at least somebody is happy I guess

I agree that things are a bit complex on that front. From my understanding, criticising the product doesn't appear to be against the rules - it's only when it becomes disrespectful and personal that it becomes a problem. I'm happy to be corrected if my understanding is faulty though.

Shane

 

[boc61]

Think before you hit that submit button. read what you typed. Twice. Everybody gets angry, caught up in a moment and frustrated. If you have doubts about a post, leave it alone for a bit. The internet enables one to say things that they would never say in a face to face conversation. Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should.