I'd say if the right people leave the community then that's a win-win situation... Nothing like a bit of hysteria to liven up the Forum is there?
Paul
A humble request for the staff to rethink how they handled the situation
- Thread starter jadebullet
- Start date
Paul
But N3V is Australian. All of that besides being Christian means little to them.
You are right - we Aussies are regarded as a most sacrilegious lot. Our previous Prime Minister was not only an atheist, but also a socialist, living in sin with a partner (not married) and, worse still, a woman!! The conservative Christian right really hated that.
Now we are paying for those sins because the current Prime Minister is exactly the opposite, and everyone hates him!
(that must exceed my quota of religion and politics in these forums for the rest of my life)
And some people have wondered why I very seldom come around this community anymore. It's obviously worse than when I left.
This should have been done long ago and I might not have become disinterested in Trainz.
Quite honestly, this forum is G rated and rather tame compared to World of Tanks.
This should have been done long ago and I might not have become disinterested in Trainz.
Quite honestly, this forum is G rated and rather tame compared to World of Tanks.
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"Big Brother is watching"!
And we are all going to get caught (sooner or later) - And end up the creek in shackles and be fed on bread and water just don't bend the Last Rule to far and....quote (CoC)..Interfering with, criticising and / or publicly commenting about moderation decisions. Messages commenting on or criticizing forum administrative actions will be removed without warning. As with all moderator decisions, there is no right to appeal.
And we are all going to get caught (sooner or later) - And end up the creek in shackles and be fed on bread and water just don't bend the Last Rule to far and....quote (CoC)..Interfering with, criticising and / or publicly commenting about moderation decisions. Messages commenting on or criticizing forum administrative actions will be removed without warning. As with all moderator decisions, there is no right to appeal.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
I'd like to add my two cents here, and hopefully no one jumps on me over it.
As I've said before, criticising the product is normal if there are problems with it, although personally attacking people in the process is not and I believe this is what N3V are trying to reduce or even elimiinate.
It reminds me of a thread I made a few weeks back. When it comes to criticism, constructive criticism is the best method as it's less likely to cause offence to others than destructive criticism.
However, that kind of criticism should never become a personal attack on another member just because they don't share the same ideas. Sure, I don't always agree with what some may say, but I don't take it upon myself to personally attack them through my comments, as that would make me as bad as those who do do personal attacks.
Interestingly enough, there's nothing in the Code of Conduct that says people cannot criticise the product to what I can see.
Shane
As I've said before, criticising the product is normal if there are problems with it, although personally attacking people in the process is not and I believe this is what N3V are trying to reduce or even elimiinate.
It reminds me of a thread I made a few weeks back. When it comes to criticism, constructive criticism is the best method as it's less likely to cause offence to others than destructive criticism.
However, that kind of criticism should never become a personal attack on another member just because they don't share the same ideas. Sure, I don't always agree with what some may say, but I don't take it upon myself to personally attack them through my comments, as that would make me as bad as those who do do personal attacks.
Interestingly enough, there's nothing in the Code of Conduct that says people cannot criticise the product to what I can see.
Shane
That has always been a concern for me with this forum, going back more than a decade.
But I will continue to fight the fight!
Humour for all!!!
Don't know if the OP was banned for his post, or if he was using "humour".
In fact, I discussed this with myself over at another forum.
I really hope he added that at the end of his post as a joke.
If it's genuine....well,....I'm speechless (almost).
And Mikey: You are correct.
Adequate moderation under the original CoC would have been enough to sort out all the problem threads.
Can't help but think they've moved the goalposts, rather than move the keeper!
Brian.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
That has always been a concern for me with this forum, going back more than a decade.
But I will continue to fight the fight!
Humour for all!!!
Don't know if the OP was banned for his post, or if he was using "humour".
In fact, I discussed this with myself over at another forum.
I really hope he added that at the end of his post as a joke.
If it's genuine....well,....I'm speechless (almost).
And Mikey: You are correct.
Adequate moderation under the original CoC would have been enough to sort out all the problem threads.
Can't help but think they've moved the goalposts, rather than move the keeper!
Brian.
I would say it's humour myself - there's one way of knowing if someone's been banned. Click their username - if there is no 'Add to Contact List' option then it usually means that they are either already on your contact list or they've been banned.
I agree that more humour is needed here, although hopefully the light-hearted variety.
Shane
This has been pointed out. I can't help but recall several threads relating to this idea, but once again, some people just can't get it figured out...
Only when the laws didn't exist in the first place does this work. Essentially what has been done is that already in place laws are now going to be enforced ever more harshly and senselessly. A couple other additions are in there too, but if you read my whole quote from myself, you would've have figured out what those are. This is still not solving any problems, and I can't wait to see how long it lasts. I've already gotten in trouble once.......... But I'll say it again, stop giving moderating jobs to people that create issues, and some of the problem is already solved. Why can the public not vote on who becomes moderators, because as we can see, clearly the current ones for surely need a wake up call.
John, I understand and respect this veiwpoint. However, it goes both ways and is a two way road here. The money I paid for my game pays N3V which pays for this forum, so while yes, this is there property and they can do as they wish, some of the ways things have been handles are less than stellar, and are going much closer to that thing that goes out to the curb every Monday night so a sanitation engineer can pick it up Tuesday morning. I'm pretty sure the logic, well I say for anybody that has any kind of common sense, apparently something certain people do not, is quite simple. If you don't want to get criticized for making garbage, then don't make garbage. It's really not that hard, unless you're a specific group of people, then it's next to impossible.
I've been with this game/sim since UTC first arrived so in other words I've been around the block a few times. I understand that something had to be done with the direction the forum was heading BUT to punish the 90% of us who had nothing to do with the problem was overkill. A classic example of the 5-10% of the bad apples spoiling it for the rest of us. What was wrong with naming the bad apples and banning them for the weekend? Put a name on the bad apples and maybe they'll go away and by putting names out there those of us who respect one another can ignore the bad apples. Just my two cents.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
Indeed, although the main reason it appears that they took the forums offline was actually to draft the updates to the Code of Conduct, although a few users did get 'affected' during that time.
Shane
Shane
I think the Powers That Be did over react somewhat, but the hyperbolic rantings of some in response could be classified in the same way. What "punishment" ? So you couldn't get to the forum for a couple of days, big deal. Find something else to do, actually play Trainz or another game. read a book, watch a movie step away, from the computer and take a walk outside, whatever. They were right, this is just a hobby, it's not life or death. In the long run this may be beneficial. Some people needed a wakeup call. Stop acting like spoiled children, discuss and argue in a reasonable manner and you shouldn't have any problems with the new CoC. N3V has a lot that they have to fix for sure, both with the game and here, but being offline for 2 days is not the end of the world. The last time this happened, in 2006 the forum was down for months. Months.
We are all frustrated. I am a Kickstarter backer, I kicked in even more to upgrade my reward to a Collector's edition. It is sitting uninstalled on the shelf, it hasn't even been registered yet, I used the digital version for my first evaluation, which I uninstalled after a couple of weeks. I'm waiting until things are sorted out and sticking with 12 until then.
The bigger question is, which will wind up on my machine first? TANE or Windows 10?
Everyone, take a deep breath, get a little fresh air and smile. Every day above ground is a good day.
We are all frustrated. I am a Kickstarter backer, I kicked in even more to upgrade my reward to a Collector's edition. It is sitting uninstalled on the shelf, it hasn't even been registered yet, I used the digital version for my first evaluation, which I uninstalled after a couple of weeks. I'm waiting until things are sorted out and sticking with 12 until then.
The bigger question is, which will wind up on my machine first? TANE or Windows 10?
Everyone, take a deep breath, get a little fresh air and smile. Every day above ground is a good day.
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This would have been the best course of action to take, but as we've all seen, N3V is not the best at handling any situation that deals with human contact, customer service, communication. they need to hire a non geek or two to handle that stuff.
This forum at it's worst wouldn't even come close to World of Tanks.
Hi everybody.
I believe it has to be realised by all users of these forums that N3V are an Australian registered company and therefore has to comply with all that countries legal statutes, and in regard to this forum the current race and equality legislation being that this is an internationally-based member forum. I believe the foregoing played a large part in the taking down of the forum on 16 August by the N3V management so as to protect the company, this forum and therefore the hobby we all enjoy.
Several weeks ago in a thread on the forum a member engaged in severe verbal abuse against individual members and groups of members. The posting was I believe reported to the forum management, but no action was taken against the offending member.
Last week in another thread the same forum member again engaged in verbal abuse of members but also on that occasion stated a wish that physical harm would befall certain members or groups of members. Again, the posting was reported to the forum management but again after several days it still appeared that no action had been taken against the offending member.
On Saturday, 16 August, the same posting was once more reported, but on this occasion the member reporting the thread asked in the report, that if no action was to be engaged in against the offending member, could it then be taken by all forum members that the offending behaviour and standard of posting could be used by all posting on the forum in the future.
For those of us who were on the forum at approximately 11am Saturday (British standard time) then witnessed the member who had reported the posting, first advise in regard to all the above, and then stated that later in the day he/she would post in regard to a subject using similar wording and adjectives as the initial offending poster.
There was then a rapid, polite but realistic exchange between ( I believe it was) three members in which the person who was to make the post informed the forum, that he/she was from a different country to the offending member. Therefore, if action was taken against that posting and the person making the post, and then against others who may then have replied in similar vein, the matter would be reported to the Australian regulatory authorities dealing with race and equal rights compliance. Within a few minutes of the forgoing happening the forums were taken off-line.
I believe the member proposing the above action had a very valid point to make in asking “are we all equal on this forum in regard to adjudication on what we state and post”. I also believe that Tony Hilliam acted in a totally correct and professional manner in taking the forums off-line, amending the codes of conduct and then allowing a period of time before restoring the forums. I believe mistakes had been made, but in the foregoing a line was drawn between those mistakes and a new conduct regime being brought forward for the better protection of N3V, this forum and all who engage in this hobby.
Bill
I believe it has to be realised by all users of these forums that N3V are an Australian registered company and therefore has to comply with all that countries legal statutes, and in regard to this forum the current race and equality legislation being that this is an internationally-based member forum. I believe the foregoing played a large part in the taking down of the forum on 16 August by the N3V management so as to protect the company, this forum and therefore the hobby we all enjoy.
Several weeks ago in a thread on the forum a member engaged in severe verbal abuse against individual members and groups of members. The posting was I believe reported to the forum management, but no action was taken against the offending member.
Last week in another thread the same forum member again engaged in verbal abuse of members but also on that occasion stated a wish that physical harm would befall certain members or groups of members. Again, the posting was reported to the forum management but again after several days it still appeared that no action had been taken against the offending member.
On Saturday, 16 August, the same posting was once more reported, but on this occasion the member reporting the thread asked in the report, that if no action was to be engaged in against the offending member, could it then be taken by all forum members that the offending behaviour and standard of posting could be used by all posting on the forum in the future.
For those of us who were on the forum at approximately 11am Saturday (British standard time) then witnessed the member who had reported the posting, first advise in regard to all the above, and then stated that later in the day he/she would post in regard to a subject using similar wording and adjectives as the initial offending poster.
There was then a rapid, polite but realistic exchange between ( I believe it was) three members in which the person who was to make the post informed the forum, that he/she was from a different country to the offending member. Therefore, if action was taken against that posting and the person making the post, and then against others who may then have replied in similar vein, the matter would be reported to the Australian regulatory authorities dealing with race and equal rights compliance. Within a few minutes of the forgoing happening the forums were taken off-line.
I believe the member proposing the above action had a very valid point to make in asking “are we all equal on this forum in regard to adjudication on what we state and post”. I also believe that Tony Hilliam acted in a totally correct and professional manner in taking the forums off-line, amending the codes of conduct and then allowing a period of time before restoring the forums. I believe mistakes had been made, but in the foregoing a line was drawn between those mistakes and a new conduct regime being brought forward for the better protection of N3V, this forum and all who engage in this hobby.
Bill
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jadebullet
might be back?
Question one: Is that user now banned.
Question two: Why was a ban not given to said user when he was obviously violating the CoC?
Tony did not react appropriately. Quite frankly, all he did was further enforce the concern that I have seen posted quite a few times on other forums that said user is being given special treatment due to his backer status. Taking the forum down makes the company and the game look bad. If n3v can't even run a forum, how are they going to fix the issues with their game is something I have seen a lot lately.
The proper response is to ban the user causing the issues, not ignore them then take down the forum and update the CoC to an easily abused form. The same CoC that was already being violated to begin with by said user, but no action was being taken.
Question two: Why was a ban not given to said user when he was obviously violating the CoC?
Tony did not react appropriately. Quite frankly, all he did was further enforce the concern that I have seen posted quite a few times on other forums that said user is being given special treatment due to his backer status. Taking the forum down makes the company and the game look bad. If n3v can't even run a forum, how are they going to fix the issues with their game is something I have seen a lot lately.
The proper response is to ban the user causing the issues, not ignore them then take down the forum and update the CoC to an easily abused form. The same CoC that was already being violated to begin with by said user, but no action was being taken.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
It's hard to know the exact reasons why. As I've mentioned a few times elsewhere, there could be a conflict of interest somewhere along the line.
Shane
Shane
amigacooke
Well-known member
I wonder if those who feel the moderation has not been satisfactory will take direct action and volunteer to be moderators?
Hi Jadebullet and everybody.
Jade, the original poster has now been banned i believe. No action has been taken against member who proposed posting in similar mode as original to deliberately draw reaction, as their would be nothing to put against that member as it never went that far. That member probably achieved what they where looking for in getting action taken against first violator.
Bill
Jade, the original poster has now been banned i believe. No action has been taken against member who proposed posting in similar mode as original to deliberately draw reaction, as their would be nothing to put against that member as it never went that far. That member probably achieved what they where looking for in getting action taken against first violator.
Bill
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