Issue with loss of rules when switching from Driver to Surveyor.

When I go from driver mode into surveyor mode to change the weather or add a consist, i lose my added rules. I try to re start them while in driver edit but when I return from surveyor back to Driver mode all my added rules do not function. I have to re enter surveyor mode and manually add each rule again after deleting them.

I have been using the UDS to switch between Driver and Surveyor mode from some time now and, while it does take some getting used to, I am quite impressed with it. I add that I mostly use it to edit the route and not the session.

I just did some experimenting using your description of the problem and I have been unable to reproduce the effect. I set up a simple session on an existing bare bones route.

I started the Session, let it run briefly, paused and switched to Surveyor.
Opened the Session Editor, added and configured a new rule.
I restart the existing rules (one being a message popup), exited the Session Editor and switched back to Surveyor (I did not save the session before switching).
I resumed the session, the message popup reappeared as expected.

I again paused the session and switched to Surveyor and entered the Session Editor. The newly added rule was still there.

@pware. Don t add a rule. See what happens to rules that have been added beforehand and saved. Then try. Try Trackview rule or JTG correct lights rule. Start session then go into surveyor mode. Change whatever. Then come back into driver mode. Functionality has disappeared. Go back into surveyor mode and you have to re start each rule that was added at the start. In the driver edit page. Not the bare bones ones. There is actually a button lower left in driver edit page that says press to re start the rules. But this does nothing. I have to actually delete each rule and re add. Then back into driver. That works.

The restart rules just puts the driver command back to the beginning of the queue, which doesn't do more than confuse the situation a lot at least for me.

I think the situation you are running into is the session has a disconnect from the route when stuff is saved while using the UDS interface. I found this out the hard way with a longtime route I have I edited while in driver. I was happily making changes and fixing things but much to my disappointment were only found in the session I was operating and not on the route. As much as I tried, even with moving stuff to the route layer, to right the wrong, it wouldn't work. I eventually had to revert back to a backup and left that alone for anything other than testing.

Like pware, I use the UDS as I said for testing. If I setup ATLS crossings, I plop a loco down, switch to Driver on the fly and test the components to ensure I've got the triggers and controller setup properly. If I need to make any changes, I switch back to Surveyor and make the changes there and then delete the temporary consist.

The restart button is for resetting the rules only, it does not restart the session. Because you have been in driver mode the rules can not restart because trains are not at the start position when you first opened the session. A train may have already done three driver command instructions but by doing a restart you are asking the train to do them again. He can't do them because he has already passed those points in the session. You can use restart if you are having a new session

Yes stagecoach that makes sense. In this regard, TANE was a lot easier to add or delete consists. The driver session simply paused, you did your edit and then back into the session. Nothing lost. Though adding and deleting consists were the only thing you could do. I prefer that to this situation though. In TANE I write down any edits needed in surveyor and then get out of driver properly and into surveyor.

bolivar said:

@pware. Don t add a rule. See what happens to rules that have been added beforehand and saved. Then try.

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My normal technique (and please bear with me on this) for using the UDS system is to:-

1. Start in Surveyor
2. Switch to Driver via the UDS and run the session
3. If I discover something amiss like a tree growing in the middle of the track (hey, don't judge, it happened once) then I pause the Driver session
4. Switch back to to Surveyor and fix the problem (in one of the route layers)
5. Save the edited route only (not the route and the session)
6. Switch back to Driver
7. Unpause and continue running the session.

By not saving the session after each edit, the integrity of the starting session conditions (rules, consists and their starting positions, weather conditions, industries, etc) is preserved. So when I select the Route and then select View Sessions from the Driver/Surveyor menu and then select the Session and click Drive Session, I will be starting the unedited session with its edited route from the beginning.

Once I have tested the first section of a route (e.g. A to B) and I want to move onto testing the next section (B to C) I will vary step 5 above to save the edited Route and save the Session with the consist in its new position by giving the Session a new name so it will not overwrite the original starting Session. This allows me to start the Driver Session with the consist in its new position without having to restart the entire session from the beginning (a great time saver). I repeat this as many times as needed to the end of the route.

On the odd occasion, I have also edited one of the Session Rules after jumping from Driver back into Surveyor.

bolivar said:

Try Trackview rule or JTG correct lights rule. Start session then go into surveyor mode. Change whatever. Then come back into driver mode. Functionality has disappeared. Go back into surveyor mode and you have to re start each rule that was added at the start.

Click to expand...

I have never experienced this. Everything has worked in Driver that should have worked. For example:- after clearing a Message Popup Rule from the Driver screen, pausing Driver, jumping into Surveyor, altering the message in the popup rule, resetting it, jumping back into Driver and unpausing the session, the new altered message popup immediately appeared.

bolivar said:

In the driver edit page. Not the bare bones ones. There is actually a button lower left in driver edit page that says press to re start the rules. But this does nothing. I have to actually delete each rule and re add. Then back into driver. That works.

Click to expand...

Not my experience at all. The UDS system does require some user discipline and some time to get used to the way it works. For example one common complaint that I have read in these forums is that after they save their edits (including the Session) and restart the Session from the Driver/Surveyor main menu, all the consists have moved from their proper starting positions. The discipline here is to save the route only, not the route and session where the original session will be overwritten. I am not saying that this is the cause of your problems, but, as I have stated above, by following my UDS technique,I have not experienced any problems.

Thanks for your input all. I will keep on plodding along. I do all my surveyor editing in TANE and run sessions in TRS19. It is only when I wish to add or delete a consist or change an environmental setting while in Driver mode, does this irritating issue crop up. As I said I can simply re start each rule by deletion and re adding. Then re entering Driver mode. It is not a deal breaker. I will continue to suffer the addiction that this sim has on me.

I've had this problem with trackview rule and mcDisplay Custom Hud. Going to surveyor to change a car load and then back to Driver cause these items to disappear, worst it doesn't happen every time. I like to run sessions for extended time, saving and reloaded for many days and really miss these rules when they disappear.

@MountE the rules do not disappear , they cease to function. Go back into surveyor from driver, then open "ëdit session". You will find them there but they have been disabled. You have to delete them both and then re add them. Then continue in driver. One function, though that will not be able to be re added is the mc rule. That has gone. You have to re start the entire session from the main menu.

Could it be a problem with the rules themselves? For example, do they set variables, conditions, whatever, that cannot be reset or retained when Driver is restarted. When switching from Driver to Surveyor you will get a warning about the switch disabling achievement rules, could this be something similar?

I have never used the rules you have identified and I have not experienced any such problem with the rules I do use.

It also happens with "Quick Drive" rule and "Driver setup" rules, pware. All rules that have been added when I set up the driver edit page. The default rules that come with each session do not seem to be affected. Only those that have been added by myself. I am unsure of why it occurs,apart from the explanation by "stagecoach", which seems to be quite plausible. Perhaps a note to help desk? Not sure if others are experiencing this, apart from MountE and myself.

The Quick Drive rule is obsolete now if you are using Platinum because Platinum has those features built-in with the ability to go directly from Surveyor to Driver.

Yes I am aware of that JCtron. But I prefer to leave surveyor completely and then enter Driver. So Quick drive rule fits the bill.