TRS2019 Release Date

MSGSapper said:

Tony: I am curious about N3Vs reluctance to post the early access version to Steam as you do directly from your store website. Steam has always been "early access" friendly. I had been looking forward to seeing the early access version as it would give me a head start on bringing all my content and routes up to the TRS2019 standard. Unfortunately that didn't happen and it now appears, based on your posts in the forum, that only the final version of TRS2019 will make it to Steam, which is very disappointing to me, and I suspect others, who use Steam.

Your obvious answer, as you have said before, would be that I can get it from you directly. My reply to that would be that Steam has a better and automatic updating mechanism in place and that is the primary reason all 212 games (and counting) that I have are all from Steam. Steam has so many advantages now for the game user that I no longer buy any traditional non-Steam game from direct commercial sources. If I were to purchase from you directly there would be no way, unless I am missing something here, that I could get it under Steam at some point to ensure proper and timely automatic updates. This is the major reason that so many game developers have opted to put their early access games on Steam. I sure hate to think we Steam people are going to be treated as second class customers, where we haven't been in the past, due to your new revenue model that is trying to push everyone toward a subscription model. FYI I don't mind paying the higher price you have put into place for TRS2019, but will never use become a subscriber as I am a developer and lifetime FCT holder, and not an operator, so there is little to be gained for me becoming a subscriber. My joy in Trainz is creating routes and content that others can enjoy, and not the playing or operation.

Bob

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I've only used steam rarely and I can only presume there are benefits I have never fully understood. I've been using TRS19 virtually since release date and have no negative comments about N3V (Now thats a first for me). Apart from my irritation at their pricing structure of course.

I am really only interested in burbling along doing development sites for my own use so I don't get a huge amount of value out of the large sophisticated routes. I'll always look at the free ones to pick up ideas on downloads from the DLS, working on textures which is a never ender pleasure and general ideas on how to build and model. Almost no interest in running a modelled version of the real World but that's just me.

I hope that N3V have another look at their prices because I think they are a bit high but enough said on that already. I want N3V to continue bringing joy to my sad little world for years to come so have paid the premium rate

KenSimmons said:

Steam is ok for fully developed games, but Sream isn't the place for beta testing. Stream would still need to get the beta files from N3V.

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That's odd as I'm beta testing a game on Steam at the moment, seems fine to me. Steam also has an early access mode which is specifically for games which are in development.

MSGSapper said:

If you don't personally use Steam why are you commenting on it here, ...

Bob

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Since you only want first hand opinions, I'll withdraw my objections.

As for Steam, why would I want to let an extra layer to get get in my computer to be between me and my Trainz. When I want an upgrade, I can get them direct from N3V. Same if I need to re-install because something bad happened to my installation. And I have backups so that's not an issue. I've heard of going offline but that still leaves Steam in my computer.

On a related topic, can you organize your game files as you like or does Steam impose it's own folder structure?

True TRS19 wants to call home to authenticate which is bad enough but why should I let Steam decide if I am allowed to use Trainz. Meanwhile my TANE doesn't need external permission, it is DRM free.

martinvk said:

As for Steam, why would I want to let an extra layer to get get in my computer to be between me and my Trainz.

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I presume that a rhetorical question.

If you have 40 installed games, as I have (yes, there are 40 macOS games), you don't have to go to forty different places, or use 40 different update clients to keep them up to date, Steam handles it all. Now, I'm sure that isn't a good enough reason for some, but some can choose not to use Steam, then everyone is happy

gch said:

I've only used steam rarely and I can only presume there are benefits I have never fully understood.

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I didn't really want to get into a "merits of Steam" discussion in this thread but it looks like I am going to have to do that. Here are some of the benefits of Steam based on my own personal experience:

1. Before Steam came along you had to go every individual game companies website in order to update your software or do anything else. With Steam you no longer have to do that. The updates are handled automatically and are relatively pain free in most cases with no intervention on your part needed.

2. There is a customer non-company controlled rating and review mechanism in place for each game. I have found that VERY useful in screening which games I am going to purchase, or not.

3. Forums are provided for each game which means I can get help from fellow users and not just the company, again without having to go to multiple websites.

4. Workshops are provided for many games which makes it easy for users such as myself to upload mods that we have created. I use these myself for several games where I have created content for.

5. For the first time "early access" games are made available for any potential customer who wants to do that, which means the general public can be party of the game development cycle. That was very rare prior to the introduction of Steam. I remember an era where only selected beta testers were used by most game companies. Steam changed that.

6. You can "wishlist" games in a manner similar to Amazon.

7. The game payment mechanism is very flexible, to include PayPal, which means I don't have to use my credit card with every individual game company. This gives peace of mind as my sensitive payment information is only on ONE site.

8. There are always Steam game sales where you can get much better pricing and you are aware of this without having to constantly visit every individual game company websites, which is very convenient.

9. Game directory access is fairly easy and you can put the game somewhere else if needed.

10. Corrupted games are easy to fix through the Steam "Verify Integrity of Game Files" function. It looks at your game files for that game and if it finds something wrongs fixes it. This solves many problems for most people. Very handy!

11. Allows even small independent game companies worldwide to create and market their games who might not be able to do so otherwise. This has really democratized the game industry! Without Steam you probably would never know their games existed.

There is a lot more in Steam then I list here, but these are the ones that come to my mind as I type this.

Now you know why I am a big fan of Steam. I doubt I would have bought the over 212 games I have through them otherwise. Steam may not be perfect but it is the best thing that has come along for gamers, at least for now.

Bob

martinvk said:

Since you only want first hand opinions, I'll withdraw my objections.

As for Steam, why would I want to let an extra layer to get get in my computer to be between me and my Trainz. When I want an upgrade, I can get them direct from N3V. Same if I need to re-install because something bad happened to my installation. And I have backups so that's not an issue. I've heard of going offline but that still leaves Steam in my computer.

On a related topic, can you organize your game files as you like or does Steam impose it's own folder structure?

True TRS19 wants to call home to authenticate which is bad enough but why should I let Steam decide if I am allowed to use Trainz. Meanwhile my TANE doesn't need external permission, it is DRM free.

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I'm sorry but I HAD to post. I just had to. I am flabbergasted that you are even spewing what you are saying right now. Acting like some person who knows what he talking about, and spewing it to others without any actual knowledge of said product... How...I...too many questions to ask here, holy cal.

You don't even use the bloody app and you are making assumptions and saying its garbage. You don't even have the technical details correct... AT ALL!! I gotta jump on here with MSGSapper. Not to defend Steam and Valve, but to make others in this thread and future readers, know properly what Steam is. Instead of listening to some old man who can't get with the times.

As for Steam, why would I want to let an extra layer to get get in my computer to be between me and my Trainz. When I want an upgrade, I can get them direct from N3V. Same if I need to re-install because something bad happened to my installation. And I have backups so that's not an issue. I've heard of going offline but that still leaves Steam in my computer.

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It's not any more extra layer than N3V did with their launcher for Trainz. It's a program that keeps all your games in one place. When a upgrade (are you meaning new game or update? either way) hits, Steam downloads it by itself. You don't even need to open Trainz launcher (You can also tell steam to not auto-update). Steam will max your pipe compared to N3V speeds. If you need to reinstall, you are reinstalling a old build that you have saved from your PC that you had to goto N3V site and download. Steam already knows this info. Uninstall Trainz, done. Press install on Steam, and latest build is now re-installing/downloading. Something bad happens to your install on Steam, you just verify game files and anything wrong is fixed. Which is different than a DB repair. Backups? Backups are good. But the way you wording it, makes me scared that you have actual CD backups laying around somewhere. Yikes! Steam offers 1 click backup solutions in various sizes to cram on a disk, or HDD. Steam has an 'offline' mode if internet speeds/bandwidth is low for you or to avoid friends.

On a related topic, can you organize your game files as you like or does Steam impose it's own folder structure?

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Why do you need to structure your own folders? You do nothing in Trainz with folders anymore. You set the content folder and go. This is a Trainz thing, so yes, in Steam you'd be allowed same thing. Steam puts all its game and files in same place a regular old CD install would.

True TRS19 wants to call home to authenticate which is bad enough but why should I let Steam decide if I am allowed to use Trainz. Meanwhile my TANE doesn't need external permission, it is DRM free.

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You quite literally just contradicted yourself there. So your gonna let N3V have a DRM, but god forbid any other app/game have DRM. Got it. OKAY. Steam has its own DRM for its own protection. DRM-Free is a thing of the past my friend. Very few games these days sell with DRM-Free. Mostly on GoG. Even when DRM Free, there is still a system in place. AKA product key. Which can be spoofed, but limit what you can do.

I thank you for stepping back, but only after the pressure was put on you and you were shown facts. But then you keep going on in your next few sentences...I...shake my head..

Use the bloody software first before you sit there and spew nonsense.

A phrase I think people of this forum and age will understand, Don't judge a book by its cover. You gotta try it before you can bash it. How will you know, Til you tried.

Excuse me for questioning

Your only question was asking about file structure, the rest was you criticizing the product and making knee jerk conclusions without you even touching the software.

Your only response being "Excuse me for questioning" sums this all up. You don't care and your mind is set.

So, have a good day sir!

On a related topic, can you organize your game files as you like or does Steam impose it's own folder structure?
Why do you need to structure your own folders? You do nothing in Trainz with folders anymore. You set the content folder and go. This is a Trainz thing, so yes, in Steam you'd be allowed same thing. Steam puts all its game and files in same place a regular old CD install would.


True TRS19 wants to call home to authenticate which is bad enough but why should I let Steam decide if I am allowed to use Trainz. Meanwhile my TANE doesn't need external permission, it is DRM free.


You quite literally just contradicted yourself there. So your gonna let N3V have a DRM, but god forbid any other app/game have DRM. Got it. OKAY. Steam has its own DRM for its own protection. DRM-Free is a thing of the past my friend. Very few games these days sell with DRM-Free. Mostly on GoG. Even when DRM Free, there is still a system in place. AKA product key. Which can be spoofed, but limit what you can do.

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Couple of clarifications here. Martin has the DRM free version of T:ANE which requires a serial number key to be entered manually. This version has an offline option which does not require full-time authorization from the DRM servers. There is once a 30-day login required, however, at start-up, but full time not required.

The requirement for easy access to the data folders is for those that repair or create content. Unless you love digging through 6 layers of folders, including the default user-data path of C:/Users/login-name/app data/local/N3V Games/TANE/SOME BUILD FOLDER WITH NUMBERS/edits, gets a bit old.

I am a Steam user for a few games such as Arma3, Cities Skylines, and a couple of others. My complaint with Steam is the automatic updates. Yes it works for somethings, but not all. With Cities Skylines, the game is trashed due to some Workshop content which got broken during an update. Which item? Don't know, can't tell because the updates come down with "Workshop Content updated". That's helpful! There is no indication of what asset snarfed the program, or what. The poor game code in CS doesn't help matters either because the program load hangs or crashes without any indication as to what caused the problem. This is quite unlike the powerful Content Manager we have and our ability to stop content updates, and the ability to not install program updates as well, We can see from the community forums here whether to hold off or update.

I suppose for those that can't be bothered with content management to the degree that many of us enjoy, nor do they care about creating content and only play the DLC routes, so Steam is a perfect option, but when it comes to manually controlling stuff, it is very difficult, due to the automatic nature. Yes, Steam does allow you to install the applications in other locations, but that appears to be an all or nothing to a location setup in Steam.

There are advantages and disadvantages to this platform and it all depends upon the use and depth that the user wants to go to. For those of us that do not like the shelled in environment, we don't have to use Steam nor do we like it, while there are those that feel secure within it and enjoy the lack of end-user control that it provides.

Like Martin I prefer a more open environment where I can put my content on my F: drive and my program on my C: drive, have multiple installs, beta installs, and test installs all not interfering with each other and all being allowed to run unhampered and uncontrolled.

To each is own.

I have my computer in a designated work area at home and I play my train simulators on there. Through Steam I can use Steam Link and stream my game through my home network to my living room television and play other types of games there with a controller. This also includes non steam games like BF5 which is actually through EA Origin. Nice feature to have through Steam as EA Origin doesn't offer such an option. I have always purchased my Trainz games through Steam except for TRS2019 as I wanted it now. I haven't had any issues with or without Steam and my Trainz games - or with other games either. As John said above, to each their own.

So, to sum up this "knock 'em down, drag 'em out" off topic fist fight ....

If you have lots of games installed then Steam can be an advantage for its updates and validations (with John's warning as a caveat) . If you have only a few (like me) then perhaps not so.

Despite the posts to the contrary, I consider Steam to be another example of bloatware that I can do without.

Hope so

PC_Ace said:

Next month - December 2018... to be sure. :hehe:

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I hope so, just throwed early acces of because it was becoming worse with every update so I hope the final version will run smoothly and will be less then the 12 gb now

regards,
Paul

Curiously, Valve originally announced Steam just after the leaking of Half-Life 1 debacle resulting in future versions of Half-Life getting encrypted, there was no mention at the time of a platform to seamlessly apply updates, as a Valve Beta Tester I wasn't impressed that we all got blamed for the leak however I understood Valves logic. Didn't stop the piracy though, probably still hasn't if truth was known.

OK my not good experience with Steam, Registered HL1 retail copy from Game which immediately stopped working as it was apparently already registered, that took 6 months to get sorted out, Valves error not mine, eventually got it working and received an update from Steam which broke the game halfway through the first level, reverted to my disk install away from Steams interference. At that time I was on capped Dial up Internet, wasn't anything else where I was living at the time so forced updates were unwanted annoyances.
Thing's may well have improved as this was right at the beginning, however I do not have the need for masses of Games so it and it's software, would in my case be using unnecessary resources. You could run Steam stuff Off Line by the way if you so desired, no idea if that's still possible? As I don't use need or want any Steam Games, I am not likely to miss it.

clam1952 said:

Curiously, Valve originally announced Steam just after the leaking of Half-Life 1 debacle resulting in future versions of Half-Life getting encrypted, there was no mention at the time of a platform to seamlessly apply updates, as a Valve Beta Tester I wasn't impressed that we all got blamed for the leak however I understood Valves logic. Didn't stop the piracy though, probably still hasn't if truth was known.

OK my not good experience with Steam, Registered HL1 retail copy from Game which immediately stopped working as it was apparently already registered, that took 6 months to get sorted out, Valves error not mine, eventually got it working and received an update from Steam which broke the game halfway through the first level, reverted to my disk install away from Steams interference. At that time I was on capped Dial up Internet, wasn't anything else where I was living at the time so forced updates were unwanted annoyances.
Thing's may well have improved as this was right at the beginning, however I do not have the need for masses of Games so it and it's software, would in my case be using unnecessary resources. You could run Steam stuff Off Line by the way if you so desired, no idea if that's still possible? As I don't use need or want any Steam Games, I am not likely to miss it.

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I got caught in the HL1 debacle as well. I too had account issues not related to me and it took forever for Valve to fix it.

Yes Steam allows you to go off line which is fine, but my complaint is updates to Steam can and will break already installed games. I had that with both Arma3 and Cities where the programs worked perfectly well one day and then got buggered the next day and would crash on startup. There were no game updates at the time and it was a Steam update that did it though Valve tried to pass that one off on the developer. Surprisingly the next day things were sorted out and these programs worked again.

The Workshop idea in theory is great, but it's poorly implemented. The search for dependencies with programs stinks, and if there's an update, old versions don't get obsoleted nicely so there's a lot of clutter left over on the workshop pages. Related to the Workshop is the auto install of updates of that stuff. If content is downloaded automatically that's bugged, there's no way of knowing until the game its self crashes or hangs. Then it's a matter of sorting out content for hours to determine who or what snarfed and killed the program. I'm sure buried in this nice wrapper is an option to turn off auto updates for the Workshop.

This is the problem of putting a wrapper around programs to "protect them and bundle them". In theory it's great and when it works it works well, but should something along the way get bugged, well then everything falls apart.

If people like this environment, sure go for it but it's not something I particularly like.

Back to the original topic. The latest newsletter 23rd November 2018 (the so called "Black Friday" - why I do not know when it is not Fri 13th of any month) has the latest update to the release date -

we're still planning on the official TRS19 release being prior to Christmas 2018.

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At least they got the year right in this newsletter.

So now you know.

Black Friday is almost over here in America. Only the Early Access with the 6 Routes is available. I have the Early Access and it might as well be the 'Sim of the Year'. It's awesome.

I just hope they do a deep discount on the First Class Tickets... LOL... In America, Black Friday is a day, the day after 'America Thanksgiving' which is always on a Thursday. Has nothing to do with the number 13. It is the 'Deepest Discount' day for any product in the USA. People camp outside stores days before they open just to get the deals... LOL again. (would like to see a Seasonal Asset that is aware of Black Friday, davesnow store filled with people outside waiting to get in? Mega LOL)

NV3, please do a deep discount on the First Class Tickets...

Any updated on ( Tony's wiggle room release date ) as to
When official release date is likely to be
Will pricing change after official release

We'd love to tell you, but then we open up the possibility of you being disappointed.

I can confirm that there are no plans to adjust pricing any time soon. I am sure that next year there will be opportunities to save.