Trainz & YouTube

I was wondering if anyone knew if it's ok to monetize Trainz videos? I've been searching around for an answer and have come up completely empty handed except for another thread here from 2012 that ended without any resolution.


On that thread people seemed concerned mostly with the license agreement for content within the route itself and creators of that content claiming rights to any monetization. But it seems to me that's a moot point much like selling a photo of a Pepsi can wouldn't result in a lawsuit from Pepsi claiming rights to the work (unless the photographer claimed to have created the Pepsi can). Or similarly, monetizing a review video on a given product. The rights defer to the creator of the photo/video since the creator isn't claiming to have created the pieces used in the work.


I also look to YouTubers who are monetizing Cities Skylines videos. For those unfamiliar it's a city building game much like SimCity but with an asset database of user content similar to Trainz. So even there, with the bits contributed by other users, it's possible to monetize videos containing said content.


So what do you guys think or know about monetizing Trainz videos?


-Joe

Some decent videos here, for starters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpryD-jLwI&list=PLyC6aoYnRBZb-ajHNflFFUpFcIwcxWKKm&index=13
There are many videos in the series so a few hours to get through them all.

billgatesthethird said:

Some decent videos here, for starters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNpryD-jLwI&list=PLyC6aoYnRBZb-ajHNflFFUpFcIwcxWKKm&index=13
There are many videos in the series so a few hours to get through them all.

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Er, I don't think that this quite answers the question about monetizing...but these are great tutorials.

I would think that the same concern would apply if you were writing a book on how to use Trainz. People write books and produce videos about software products (and just about everything else) all the time. The typical process is that you contact N3V and let them know your intentions, and then credit them according to their instructions.

Anything else about the arrangement is between you and them. I don't think that they would stop you. You might meet more resistance from the tight community of content creators if you reveal too much of their secrets. On the other hand, if you have no "secrets" to share that will enlighten the rest of us, then I would have to wonder how profitable your venture will be, considering that there are a lot resources out there showing us how to create block walls, buildings, and other static items.

Full blown instructions on building fully functional locomotives and operational industries are a little harder to find.

acbdfaqoz said:

I was wondering if anyone knew if it's ok to monetize Trainz videos? I've been searching around for an answer and have come up completely empty handed except for another thread here from 2012 that ended without any resolution.

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If all of the assets used in the video state that you are free to do so, then the answer is Yes.
So the effective answer most likely is No.

acbdfaqoz said:

On that thread people seemed concerned mostly with the license agreement for content within the route itself and creators of that content claiming rights to any monetization. But it seems to me that's a moot point much like selling a photo of a Pepsi can

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The difference is that Pepsi actually makes his money selling Pepsi, not pictures of something. For them a picture of that can is free advertisement for the product they actually sell.
So not a moot point but actually a totally not related point / something completely different.

I would sooner compare it to making a picture of all the pages in a comic book. The maker of the comic book makes his money by selling the book. You now are selling the pictures of all those pages; who is making the profit over the actual product now?
Or compare it to going to the opera. You pay to watch it. Now you make a recording of that opera while being there and start selling that video; who is making the profit over the actual product now?

By the way:
The fact that others do something, be it legal or illegal, is never an strong argument about if something is allowed or not. Example: I am pretty sure I have seen loads of people take the metro without paying for it, yet it still is not allowed.

oknotsen said:

If all of the assets used in the video state that you are free to do so, then the answer is Yes.
So the effective answer most likely is No...

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Wow, that is a very strict interpretation of copyright, I'd say! Are assets merely pictures? Assets are far more than merely images of the things that they represent.

Forget "monetizing" for a moment since copyright laws make no such distinction anyway. If I made a video of any route that I have purchased, and then uploaded the video to YouTube, then you are saying I would be violating copyright without first obtaining permission from every single asset, route, session, ... creator first?

I certainly agree that care should be taken when including assets in a route that you are going to upload, or in modifying anyone else's asset, but to extend such protections to videos (how about screenshots?) is quite a reach. I would think that, if this were the case, then every asset we make, modeled after a real-life shay engine, CN railcar, Walmart, McDonald's, and the list goes on... would be a technical violation of the law since it represents not only a trademarked design, but also copyrighted drawings that affix the concept of color schemes, design, architecture, and so forth.

I absolutely agree with you, Cressjl. I have a long winded reason why as well coming up lol

-Joe

Explain what exactly you mean by monetize?

Explain what exactly you mean by monetize?

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Place ads on the videos. Ever watch YouTube and see a banner or commercial. That's how people make money off of YouTube.

If all of the assets used in the video state that you are free to do so, then the answer is Yes.

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Is that written down anywhere or is it a general word of mouth/unspoken rule?


The way I see it (and I'm a professional photographer/videographer so I have some understanding of this) is that you're not making money off of the asset itself. You're making money showing off the asset. Model Railroader Magazine doesn't need permission from every single vendor of a model or tree on a layout they tour. I'm sure this is partially because they're sponsored by those products but similarly, you wouldn't necessarily need permission from model creators if you wanted to produce a video of someone's model railroad and sell the video. You would only need the permission of the creator of the model railroad itself. The whole intellectual work.

I would sooner compare it to making a picture of all the pages in a comic book. The maker of the comic book makes his money by selling the book. You now are selling the pictures of all those pages; who is making the profit over the actual product now?

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What you're suggesting is plagiarism and also copyright infringement. When someone uses someone else's work and claims it as their own. But if I'm producing a video on how to super detail a scene in Trainz and am not claiming credit for creating the assets used (only the route they're used in) but rather using several to create a larger piece of intellectual work, typically in the photo/video world, that's perfectly ok to do.


If the asset claims "no distribution in any way shape or form" in my opinion that does not apply to monetized videos because there is no distribution occurring. It is simply showing the asset in use and any financial benefit on my behalf from said video is a result of my intellectual creation of the scene and video using said assets as the building blocks. So unless the license explicitly says something like "no photo or video" then it should technically be fine.


And with regards to Cities Skylines videos, they're perfectly legal for this exact reason. Even if assets used are from the steam workshop created by anyone in the world.


I'm certainly not arguing anyone should be able to make money off of just anything, especially without permission. As a photographer I know exactly what it's like to be ripped off of my professional work.


Simply, I feel this isn't something that's been touched on ever and it's worth addressing. And let's be honest for a moment, generating revenue from a Trainz video would be like getting water from a rock. Doable but not easy.


Any asset creators out there want to weigh in? Do you include anything about video content produced in your user license? Does N3V or Trainz even have a policy on YouTube videos because I haven't been able to find that either?

Which is what I suspected, I think people were thinking of something different. I though I just get you to clarify it. It's the adverts that make the money not the video content.

Hi everyone,

I have a YouTube channel that is monetised and I have been known to upload Trainz videos on occasion.

I asked N3V Games about their policy regarding such matters and I was referred to Shaine Bennett, the Marketing Director.

I was given a set of guidelines to use for the videos I made in Trainz that I planned to monetise:

"[FONT=&quot]N3V Games is happy for you to monetize your videos and/or channel that use the Trainz platform to create content, as long as you do not pretend to/position yourself as representing the Trainz brand. We’ll allow you to use the Trainz logo and iconography in your videos/channel, as well as logos and iconography for additional Trainz branded releases, but not in the name of your channel. You may not use the N3V Games logo in association with your channel. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Furthermore, we’d ask you to on any Trainz videos that you monetize, could you provide a link to http://www.trainzportal.com or if you’re highlighting user created content, could you provide recognition of the creator in the description of your video."

[/FONT]I would assume an e-mail to N3V from Joe would yield similar results, however I would not assume the e-mail I received applies to everyone. In other words, still ask for yourself.

I hope that helps.

Kieran.

clam1952 said:

Which is what I suspected, I think people were thinking of something different. I though I just get you to clarify it. It's the adverts that make the money not the video content.

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Yes, I was thinking more of a pay-for-view concept myself, not adding adverts. Thanks for clarifying this!

Ah, yes, that's what I imagined was likely the policy, captainkman. That's the typical stance from most gaming companies on videos of their games. Thanks for the feedback and I'll have to subscribe to your channel!

-Joe