Why use High Poly - Sketch Up ... instead of learnig GMax & Blender

[NIARTcar]

Honestly, what else would one expect here? The original post consists of the following content:

Seems that a rash of super High Poly assets are being created using Sketch Up.

Observation

These Super High Poly assets can adversely effect framerates in Trainz.

Fact

Personally I believe Sketch Up is for lazy people who don't want to learn how to create the real thing in a quality program, at low poly count ... and are taking the "Easy" way out !

Attack on another group

The OP just screams of conflict, there is no attempt to reconcile the issue past blowing a whistle and calling people a few names. Really all this is is a thread created to provoke hostility from the community from both sides.....

Mission success!

 

[RRSignal]

More to RRSignals: I am an Admin at that site not becuz of my taste in content, but becuz I do more to help people, I do not crush them becuz they cannot do this that or the other, but instead try to help them!

Likewise, I do a great amount to help people at this site, as do most regulars here. I don't crush them because (<-that's a real word) they cannot do this that or the other. In fact, if you haven't noticed, I've been supportive of the notion of using Sketchup, even though I'm a Blender man myself.

 

[H222]

using something properly works, something that makes hassles and arguements, not so much

Jamie

 

[angelah]

I am a GMax person, as you all know, but if polys can be kept down in Sketchup then why not use it. Both GMax and Blender are not the easiest of progs to learn, it takes a lot of time, time that many people have not got and both can be very frustrating.
The real art in any creation package is texturing and I spend most of the time involved with any single asset on graphics, getting it as right as I can in a triple whammy of Gimp, Paint and PaintShoPro. Once I have textures right in these they are (now) put into texture maps. I have gone over to this apart from some textures needed for large areas such as bricks, tiles or cladding. One other texture I use outside of the map is anything that will be alpha channeled.
So if somebody cannot learn GMax/Blender for whatever reason I won't knock them, they are hard to get the hang of. If they can create something in Sketchup that will work in versions of Trainz without bringing it to its knees then fair enough. We all had to learn so why bash somebody who is trying?
I did look at Sketchup after downloading it because it seemed easier to use, which it probably is, but it may well have limitations and as I was happy with GMax it didn't really matter. Fine if a person works within those Sketchup limitations, I have no problem with that either.

Angela

 

[Enzo1]

Likewise, I do a great amount to help people at this site, as do most regulars here. I don't crush them because (<-that's a real word) they cannot do this that or the other. In fact, if you haven't noticed, I've been supportive of the notion of using Sketchup, even though I'm a Blender man myself.

Woa woa woa, All I see here all the time is you crushing people..... And I see myself taking the time to help others out and neglect my Trainz projects... Its a freaking game for goodness sakes! Its a hobby! Its not about who has better content! Its about who can have the fun! So If you ever go to SAXT, I am an Admin there and will outrank you... First time I see you crushing somebody there, Its a no-no... I got my supercars, I got people who love them, I got people who want to have the fun with the game, and not just see what no-fun they can create by going around and crushing people who apparently think they are heroes because they use GMAX and Blender, Wow good for you.... I make routes, and I post pics of it, but you wont get it, it has NON-DLS content on it, If anybody is Lazy around here, Its you...

 

[H222]

I am an Admin there and will outrank you

Woah - I like your supercars, but really? you're an admin, wow... I don't care if you are

Jamie

 

[Enzo1]

Woah - I like your supercars, but really? you're an admin, wow... I don't care if you are

Jamie

Yep, if you go to SAXT, you step out of line, I am right there to put your rear end back in it
Also to RRSignals disgrace, I got more supercars coming...

 

[RRSignal]

Woa woa woa, All I see here all the time is you crushing people..... And I see myself taking the time to help others out and neglect my Trainz projects... Its a freaking game for goodness sakes! Its a hobby! Its not about who has better content! Its about who can have the fun! So If you ever go to SAXT, I am an Admin there and will outrank you... First time I see you crushing somebody there, Its a no-no... I got my supercars, I got people who love them, I got people who want to have the fun with the game, and not just see what no-fun they can create by going around and crushing people who apparently think they are heroes because they use GMAX and Blender, Wow good for you.... I make routes, and I post pics of it, but you wont get it, it has NON-DLS content on it, If anybody is Lazy around here, Its you...

Wow, the pot calls the kettle - your "supercars" are some of the highest-poly assets available, especially that you're exporting small scenery assets. And you didn't do jack other than download them off of 3DWH and run them through an exporter. Talk about lazy. Hey, maybe I should make 50k poly lamp posts...

As far as criticism, sure, I'll criticize epic, record-breaking idiotic statements like yours that the internet should be shut down, all while you post and utilize this awful internet to its fullest extent. I don't dispute that I don't have much tolerance for hypocrisy and idiocy.

And, if I see assets that could be made more useful, I'll make suggestions - take them or leave them, rather than flip out and throw a hissy fit. I just won't use them, as probably will very many other people. Keep in mind, one of the cool things about 3DWarehouse is that I could download and export them myself, and add nightmode or whatever else I want, if I cared that much.

And, while I hate to rain on your little power trip, but I haven't been to SAXRT in months. I think I've only been to it once or twice. But, thank you for making it known that it's full of half-arsed 3DWH exports that'll crush people's framerates and power-tripping admins. You've done a better job at dissuading people from visiting than I ever could have.

lol!

 

[boleyd]

One productive thing came out of this morass - I saw that Sketchup may be easy to use and worth a try for someone like me who may want to TRY to make something and have it appear in Trainz. I really do not care about credits or titles. All I want is well detailed AND (this is a must) well textured models. I really find it odd that some assets that appear are very good but look like circus objects with bright single colors on them. Why spend all the time making a great model and then slap on a coat of cheap paint.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

There is an answer to this argument over 'Sketchup' & poly count, one of our number
is willing to help with advise on the matter, give them a look .............
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?87764-Would-This-Be-Useful-To-Anyone

 

[PerRock]

You know I have spent the last 2 years trying to learn 3d Max. At this time all I can create is a box. Big whoop. I have spent the last 4 years trying to get some one to make the light to medium duty vehicles and trailers seen in every rail yard in the world. I have even offered to pay people to do this. I have the plans for these trucks and trailers yet no one wanted to do it. Then I run across the very thing that I'm looking. And now because I want to export it in to trainz,I'm called lazy? Just what gives you that right. And who are you to call me lazy? I am a route creator, and I'll put my routes up against any one here. All of my routes are done free hand and that includes elevation. The amount of research I put into a route before the first track is put down would have some of you running for the hills.

Also contrary to what I've seen others accused of here, I put in the config file of everything that I have exported so far the name of the content creator. Am I a content creator, not for trainz no. Do I think of my self as one? Not by any means. But to call me lazy is rather uncalled for. When I do upload something that I found in Warehouse,(that is after it's been run through 3d Max), if you don't want to down load it then don't. In fact if all your going to do is complain about it, I would prefer that you don't. This is very reason that 90% of the routes that I create, I keep for my self. It seems that no matter what, all you guys can do is complain about this or that. When I paid 50.00 for each version of trainz that I have, I didn't care if I made you guys happy or not. And to this day I still don't. I got the GAME so I could have FUN. Win lose or draw, that's what I'm going to do. If my approach is not to your liking oh well.

Also let me say, I do FULLY support ENZO1, this guy has been more of a help to more to people that you guys will ever know. He has bent over backwards when all you guys could do is climb all over some one because they didn't word a question correctly or didn't do what you think should be done. Instead of griping how about just sitting back and relaxing and having fun. After all isn't this supposed to be a hobby? Then again, I guess some of you have forgotten what it's like to have fun. As for Enzo1 and my self, we're going to have fun our way. If that's not your way, then oh well.

+1

(10 Characters)

 

[BLACKWATCH]

So perRock, is that +1 for, or +1 against having a rant ?

You don't specify, so thought I'd ask, due to the fact that I got critisized for making a remark
that was classed as lazy because it was a shortened version of the original English saying and
those of a Yank persuasion didn't understand. :hehe:

 

[Retro00064]

This thread seems to be going downhill.

Woa woa woa, All I see here all the time is you crushing people.....

RRSignal is a helpful member of the community. I have seen many helpful posts by him with my own eyes. Your argument that he only crushes people here is wrong and without evidence.

So If you ever go to SAXT, I am an Admin there and will outrank you... <snip>

Wow, really? Being an admin or moderator is not about being better or more important than other members, regardless of whether the forum software is set up to put more stars or some flashy icon below your username. It's about being able to contribute to the smooth operation of the forum by having the tools to do som, such as by being able to remove disruptive posts and personal attacks and warning or blocking members if necessary to prevent further disruption, etc.

Being an admin or moderator takes a great degree of trust from those who have entrusted you with the tools, because the moderation tools (and especially the administrator tools) are very dangerous to the forum if in the wrong hands.

Back on topic:

Some people who use Sketchup may simply not know any better about the polygon issue, etc. Let's recommend and educate to them how to use Sketchup for Trainz properly. Call it constructive criticism if you want. Let's not put them down. There are, of course, some people who unfortunately will not accept even constructive criticism, however. As has been said, some people have even tried to learn the other modeling programs and have failed. If they should be using one of the other programs, then why not help them learn another program, walking them through it, teaching them, rather than just stating that they should use another program and leaving it up to them to do it when some of them have tried themselves and failed.

Regarding the conversion of Google 3D Warehouse models for Trainz and uploading them without credit to the original creator, in this case it is not copyright infringement, as far as I know, but it is plagiarism. Reusing a public-domain work without credit to the original creator is plagiarism, even though it is legal. So yes, ethically, people should credit the original creators of the 3D Warehouse models that they convert and upload for Trainz. If ModelerMJ, the creator of the RubyTMIX Sketchup exporter for Trainz, has not already done so (I don't know; I don't have neither Sketchup nor RubyTMIX), the perhaps he could include a notice in the program or in its installer or license that tells people to credit the original creators of any 3D Warehouse models that they convert and upload for Trainz.

Regards,

Zachary.

 

[PerRock]

So perRock, is that +1 for, or +1 against having a rant ?

You don't specify, so thought I'd ask, due to the fact that I got critisized for making a remark
that was classed as lazy because it was a shortened version of the original English saying and
those of a Yank persuasion didn't understand. :hehe:

+1 usually indicates that you like whatever it is. So in this case I like what he said. If it were against something it'd probably be a -1; however you don't really see that, instead people actually voice their criticism. +1 says "I like what you said & don't really have anything else to add to it."

peter

PS; I didn't think I'd have to explain regularly used internet terms here..

 

[BLACKWATCH]

PS; I didn't think I'd have to explain regularly used internet terms here..

Neither did I when I got pulled up for my remark, but heyho.

My previous post was just an attempt to bring some lightness back
to the thread, as it seemed to be getting a bit heavy, (hence the smilie).

 

[nikos1]

If you've ever tried to build a realistic prototype use, the sketchup exporter and the 3D library are an absolute godsend. The models may be high poly but if it saves me the time of having to build 30 buildings from scratch, I'm all for it.
If you don't like it don't use it, personally I think most decently up to date computers can handle these models, the OP is someone that still insists MP chunky mesh track is the best so I think his opinion is pretty inconsequential.

 

[sparky15]

It's your race, run it how you want. Want to use Sketchup and the Warehouse, go for it. It is you, after all, amusing yourself with a hobby. I'm no content creator but build my little dog and pony routes for for my amusement, no other reason. I have zero desire to put them up to be scrutinized by self appointed content police who think I should build them for their greater good. The time I spend is for my amusement, no other reason.*
The one little route I did release over at TPR, I got e-mails ranging from "send me all the content you used" to "why didn't you do this". Enough for me. This expectation of a few who feel empowered enough to decide what should be made is a joke at best. All you're doing is giving people who may build content a reason not to release because you have no problem dictating what that content should be by your standards.
If people using Sketchup cheeses you off that bad, don't use that content. Simple as that. Not hard to do but you act like every piece of content is a life altering event. To think everyone should jump through hoops to give you what you decide should be is laughable at best. If you want to assume some authority over content or feel if it wasn't for you, the whole enchilada would collapse, good luck with that.*
The rest of us are having fun with what we like. You can revel in your self importance if you wish.*
Why don't I release my routes? I use Trainz to build all the model railroads that catch my eye, that is where my interest is. A thread here decided to use general consensus to decide those types of routes aren't worth it. The one at TPR is under this user name, the last screenshots I posted are at USLW under Sparky, if they're still there.
For all the Sketchup users, press on with pride and enjoy yourself. Don't let the few here that believe they dictate what you do discourage you.

Dave..........

 

[cascaderailroad]

MP Track (Chunky Mesh) does curve superiorly, as opposed to high poly track http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_005-3.jpg ... and as for this loco (which is not a Sketch Up loco) is so high poly that when it comes into view the framerates drop from the normal 40 FPS, to 7 FPS http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/PRR3.jpg

Go ahead, and load up your route with 200,000 poly Sketch Up assets ... pretty soon your game framerates wil be in the single digits !

Why not just learn the right way to create a 3D asset ... instead of taking the "Easy Way Out" !

Oh ... That's right GMax & Blender are too complex of a learning curve ... for the lazy !http://cache0.bookdepository.co.uk/assets/images/book/medium/9780/7645/9780764587894.jpg


I suppose that if you worked for GM or GE, and were in CAD/CAM deptartment ... you would be instead taking the easy way out, using Sketch Up ?

http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1166890448l/18248.jpg
or http://erinreads.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/War-and-Peace-Book.jpg

 

[NIARTcar]

@ cascaderailroad Really? Who is to say that way is the correct way? Perhaps it may be the first and, until now, the most predominant method, but with the validity of sketchup now seeming plausable it would appear that there are more options. I remember the creator of this plugin for sketchup making a remark that he would be looking into effcient mapping in future plugin developements, and I honestly can see this happening. As for your posts, I find it in rather poor taste that every point made is followed with almost imediately by an attack. That is no way to make an argument and if you want a constructive topic on the subject, that is not a way to create one. It sets the tone for the rest of the thread to be nothing more but a flame war.

 

[nikos1]

Do you even know how to 3D model? I've never seen a single screenshot of yours showing that you can, the only content that you seem capable of creating are crappy paintshed PRR reskins. I know to use 3DS Max but if a building is available on the 3D library that I need, im going to use it. Your comment about working for GM/GE is retarded, theres a HUGE difference between a train game and a full time 3d modeling job, get real.
If your computer can't handle the RRMods SD45's then your running a seriously outdated computer, I can run two of them, high detail track (Have you ever used the JR track? Curves just as well as your beloved MP track and looks alot better) and a 50 car train of JR high detail stack cars and still get a playable frame rate. Just because your crappy old computer cant handle high poly objects doesn't mean everyone should cater to your needs.