Why use High Poly - Sketch Up ... instead of learnig GMax & Blender

[cascaderailroad]

All I am saying is: Sketch Up in Trainz is one giant leap backward, and sideways downhill, in technology for Trainz ... go for a job interview with Pixar ... and tell them you actually prefer Sketch Up. :hehe:

 

[sparky15]

Google up a Pixar application. They state you will be trained on their proprietary software.

 

[nikos1]

All I am saying is: Sketch Up in Trainz is one giant leap backward, and sideways downhill, in technology for Trainz ... go for a job interview with Pixar ... and tell them you actually prefer Sketch Up. :hehe:

So Trainz is on the same level as multimillion dollar movie productions? FAIL
I prefer 3DS but as I said earlier if there is a readymade asset for sketchup I will use it. Also why are you telling people to use antiquated unsupported software like GMAX? Atleast sketchup is still a actively updated program.

Oh and why are you concerned about a leap backwards? Arn't you one of those people who are still using TRS2006?

 

[clam1952]

All I am saying is: Sketch Up in Trainz is one giant leap backward, and sideways downhill, in technology for Trainz ... go for a job interview with Pixar ... and tell them you actually prefer Sketch Up. :hehe:

Better do some research before bursting forth into print,

I'm not overfond of Sketchup however see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mkPRmqUlFw I suppose they are lazy as well?

 

[cascaderailroad]

As long as assets are Low Poly, I can say nothing against it ... but when the DLS becomes absolutely flooded with extremely Super High Poly assets, that would be the downfall of Trainz.

 

[captainkman]

As long as assets are Low Poly, I can say nothing against it ... but when the DLS becomes absolutely flooded with extremely Super High Poly assets, that would be the downfall of Trainz.

Well, take a look at this idea which can help people reduce their model's poly count, and lean some Blender skills too, like rotating, sizing a mesh and texuring:
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...-This-Be-Useful-To-Anyone&p=970805#post970805

I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

 

[Beattie]

My answer about it:hehe:. http://bit.ly/wsTOEa

 

[Retro00064]

<snip> Also why are you telling people to use antiquated unsupported software like GMAX? Atleast sketchup is still a actively updated program.

<snip>

GMax still works good for me and does what I need. I don't care if it's old and unsupported by its maker. You can install PEV's GMax exporter and do things that you can't do with the old Auran exporter, such as adding normal mapping or specular effects.

@cascaderailroad: Another good track to try would be USLW's 132-pound track. It's what I currently use.

Regards,

Zachary.

 

[RRSignal]

Agreed. I don't knock GMax because it's more than useful for Trainz' purposes; probably the vast majority of content for Trainz was produced in it (if past popularity inferences were any indication.) It's not obsolete by any means. Trainz really doesn't need all the bells and whistles of Blender (and, maybe, 3DS) beyond basic object creation and animation. Indeed, if anything - and I'm basing this mostly on reviews I've read by others - GMax offers a kind of medium between the advanced capabilities of Blender and the easier-to-use interface of Sketchup. Perhaps someone who has used both Blender and GMax, or maybe all three, can provide better insight. I went with Blender because I wanted to be ready to take advantage of Blender's capabilities (and, probably more importantly, I fell in love with the keyboard shortcuts. Hey- I'm a keyboard-junkie and shortcut-lovin' DOS whore!) of Blender but only because it was my thing. I also like that Blender is still in support, but so is Sketchup and 3DS; that doesn't render GMax unsuitable for Trainz as we know it.

 

[leeferr]

I think it's time for me to pop some corn and grab a six pack.
Mike

 

[arraial]

.......dont worry..... dont worry be HAPPY so... ....... The great Bob Marley :wave:
arraial

 

[steve123]

The simple fact is if you don't want any of Google Sketchup assets then don't download them, it is as simple as that, the only result then will be your loss of haviing that asset, and if your computer is that poor tht it can not play high poly assets then do something about it, Sydney Harbour Bridge building with sketchup continues without the help of anybodies asset from anywhere including Google Sketchup Library.
I would like to thank {ModelerMJ} for all his work with the creation of Ruby TMIX program that allows us to export our new assets to Trainz, you have made so many people happier and far more active within Trainz to which can only be a benift to all at the end of the day.T
hank you very much

,http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2185/steve123201204110001.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1189/steve123201204110000.jpg
steve

 

[Gandalf0444]

It simply amazes me how much people complain over nothing. I have used Google Warehouse for buildings why? It is simple. I have been trying to learn Gcrapx as well as 3dsmax....I have read dozens of tutorials and watched hours upon hours upon hours of video tutorials, but I still cannot wrap my head around it. I can follow the tutorials obviously as they are a step by step process, but outside of that I do not have a clue in hell...I can make a box, or a tea pot much like Perrock..... If you don't like the high poly models from google warehouse TOUGH don't download it period the end.
As for me I have populated New York City with over 65 buildings that are VERY high poly, along with high poly track from JR, along with about 700 splines(roads,platforms etc etc) and I get about 50 fps with all of that on screen at once....If your computer cannot stand up to a higher poly building...then well don't download it, or it maybe time for an upgrade(funds permitting).

The things people complain about boggles my mind...it is a waste of time...Much like the state government here in CT saving us 1 penny at the gas pump...a waste of time money and effort to come to that conclusion...

If you have a problem with it put your big boy panties on and put your blinders on and DON'T LOOK AT IT and DON'T download it...Simple. If it will bring your computer to it's knees, make it catch fire then beg for mercy, don't use it or don't download it. Simple.

 

[RRSignal]

like the high poly models from google warehouse TOUGH don't download it period the end.

...

If you have a problem with it put your big boy panties on and put your blinders on and DON'T LOOK AT IT and DON'T download it...Simple. If it will bring your computer to it's knees, make it catch fire then beg for mercy, don't use it or don't download it. Simple.

Agreed 100% in principle, but the problem is, content imported into Trainz doesn't give you a clue as to polycount, let alone a size-to-poly ratio. A 40k poly skyscraper is not big deal; a little, tiny 40k poly car parked in front of a Trainz building becomes quite another deal, and exponentially more so when one populates the lot with them.

 

[martinvk]

Anyone remember the dark ages of computer programing when memory was counted in bits and no effort was too great to reduce code size? Then as memory became cheaper and everyone wanted to write code Assembler and other low level languages were ignored by the new generation. Easy of use was the new mantra and so what if the code was bloated, just add more memory and faster CPUs. Of coarse it didn't last, no amount of hardware could compensate for really inefficient coding. People became tired of waiting while the computer struggling to execute the the programs that were badly made. Now everyone wants snappy performance. Wait for more than a few seconds for a webpage to load and people move on. If the next tablet doesn't work fast enough, it risks serious market share loss.

To a small extent I see the same thing here. The early models had to be so optimum because there was not extra power available to display them. Those that could shave off extra polys without affecting the look were idolized. If the next version of an object had fewer polys, it was praised to no end. Better hardware has allowed to poly limits to be relaxed. New easier to use software allows more people to contribute. This is all a good thing.

If some of the latest objects are rather poly rich, that's just a consequence of the same phenomena that coding went through. One or two super high ploy objects might work but even the best computers will be brought to their knees by dozens or hundreds. I think eventually when the software tools are better understood and mastered, minimizing render times and efficiency will once again be in style.

Meanwhile, as has been said, if it's too much for your computer, let it pass for now. I'm pretty sure when lower poly versions are produced, the market place will sort it out rather quickly. And if your favorite item is never made in a lower poly edition? . No one else seems to notice so you can do without or make it yourself.

 

[steve123]

People still have the option to delete it after they have downloaded it , i can tell you right now that the Sydney Harbour Bridge poly count is around 151,000 before it is complete and my computer has no trouble at all.
steve

 

[JCitron]

Thank you, CaptainKman for your tutorial link. I'll have to check that out when I get a chance. Right now my mental bandwidth is a bit tight on processing space.

I wish there were like and unlike buttons in this forum. I agree with so much was said here as well as not, it would be like to voice an agreement without responding to every post I agree with.

Zachary. I agree a 40k poly building is nothing, but a 40k car is. This is similar to the situation I had with the injection molding animation. The 6 or 8 feet on the machine with 256,000 polys on each foot is exactly the same scenario. Back then, as Martin pointed out, we had to optimize everything to render quickly on the '486s and P-90 that we had on our render farm back then in 1995-96.

John

 

[leeferr]

I don't blame anyone for wanting to create and to use the easiest program available to do that. I too find Gmax rather cumbersome and Blender is totally baffling to me. That's why I use a CAD program that I'm familiar with to create meshes, convert to a dxf and then import to Gmax for texturing and animation. It simply works for me. It took me awhile to understand that I could manipulate the number of polys created when I converted my CAD mesh to .dxf before importing to Gmax. It's all a learning process. I tend to create some high poly content, but that's by choice because I just simply like the detail. LOD can take care of a lot of that, but I haven't made much use of it yet as I'm still a novice at it, but I'm learning. I'm also learning the advantages of minimizing the number of textures. As I said, it's all a learning process, and not an easy one at that.

If sketchup models and 3DWH imports are high poly, so be it. If your machine can handle them, more power to you. If it can't, you just need to stay away from them. Realize though, if you're using high poly content in a route that's intended to be uploaded to the DLS, then the market for downloads and actual usage of the route may depend on the capabilities of the downloader's machine and thus you may derive a reputation in route building based on this, whether good or bad. That's your choice.

My real pet peaves...and they're just mine...are

1) uploaders of 3DWH content should state in the description that it's 3DWH content and not the uploader's original creation. Due respect to the actual creator.

2) It would be really helpful if N3V had a poly count and number of textures listing for the content so that I had some idea before I downloaded. I don't really care to waste my time downloading something that I know is going to bring my machine to its knees, especially if I place several of them.

3) Better still...if N3V could come up with some kind of grading system that would give me an indication of the content's resource requirements.

I realize fully that none of the above are likely to be implemented, but I can dream can't I

Now that the commercial is over, back to the show.

Mike

 

[JCitron]

Mike,

The config.txt file created by the RubyMX 3DWH/Sketchup exporter will place a tagline in the description stating that this is orginally a Sketchup model. I suppose the person uploading, and I'm guilty of this as well, should note the original author and include that in the description even if it means editing the config.txt at in the end.

I too find Gmax and even the original 3ds Max to be very cumbersome. Their older 3ds 4.0 for DOS had a much more intuitive interface although quite dated. If they had taken the interface from the DOS version and implemented that in the Windows-based Max, then this would have been a really nice product. I actually had a chance to use Max 1.0 just before it was released. A friend of mine worked as a freelance writer Autodesk and wrote one of the Master's series books. She compiled her copy on my computer, my brother output the films, and I did some editing and proofing. It was an awesome experience that I'll never forget.

I too have yet though to get into Blender. I have it, took a quick look at it and instantly became tired. It's typical of many open source applications. There are too many options and key strokes for the functions - not that they're not needed. It's the intereface and organization that's confusing.

I agree we have to be careful what we place in our scenes since N3V does not include a poly meter. It would be nice if there was a scene or camera view poly counter that would change color from green to red if the polylimit is too high for the hardware. So if on my own fast computer my scene counter turns red, then this definitely cause problems on lesser hardware.

John

 

[leeferr]

Mike,

The config.txt file created by the RubyMX 3DWH/Sketchup exporter will place a tagline in the description stating that this is orginally a Sketchup model. I suppose the person uploading, and I'm guilty of this as well, should note the original author and include that in the description even if it means editing the config.txt at in the end.

I too find Gmax and even the original 3ds Max to be very cumbersome. Their older 3ds 4.0 for DOS had a much more intuitive interface although quite dated. If they had taken the interface from the DOS version and implemented that in the Windows-based Max, then this would have been a really nice product. I actually had a chance to use Max 1.0 just before it was released. A friend of mine worked as a freelance writer Autodesk and wrote one of the Master's series books. She compiled her copy on my computer, my brother output the films, and I did some editing and proofing. It was an awesome experience that I'll never forget.

I too have yet though to get into Blender. I have it, took a quick look at it and instantly became tired. It's typical of many open source applications. There are too many options and key strokes for the functions - not that they're not needed. It's the intereface and organization that's confusing.

I agree we have to be careful what we place in our scenes since N3V does not include a poly meter. It would be nice if there was a scene or camera view poly counter that would change color from green to red if the polylimit is too high for the hardware. So if on my own fast computer my scene counter turns red, then this definitely cause problems on lesser hardware.

John

Finally, a voice of reason. If we could just concentrate on how we can better use the tools available to us and not so much on attacking each other, we might actually get somewhere.

Mike