Why use High Poly - Sketch Up ... instead of learnig GMax & Blender

[ModelerMJ]

What an interesting discussion. I can almost imagine that if I looked out my window I would see a line of trainzpeople windng their way toward my castle, torches in hand.

As I have said many times before, it was never my intention that RubyTMIX be used to simply transfer models wholesale from the 3D Warehouse to the Trainz DLS. It was, rather, my hope that the many excellent models on the 3DWH could be used as starting points and then modified accordingly before being introduced into the Trainz world.

There is also the concept of using (simple) SketchUp models as place holders in a route that is a work in progress, providing a more finished appearance and allowing the route builder to continue on with the larger task instead of getting hung up on not being able to create the perfect building immediately for every spot and, in the worst case, end up never releasing their route at all. I certainly fall into this category and this is one of the main reasons I created RubyTMIX; I then thought it might be useful to others in the community, so I gave it away for free, not really imagining that it would spark such controversey.

I actually have another SketchUp-related tool that is nearing completion and was also to be given away for free; but, sadly, discussions like this give me pause. In any case, I am glad that I have been able to help some, and am sorry that there are those who feel SketchUp (and I suppose, by extension, RubyTMIX) is a blight on the Trainz landscape. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion and I appreciate all the comments, both good and bad.


Regards,
-Mike

 

[norfolksouthern37]

As I have said many times before, it was never my intention that RubyTMIX be used to simply transfer models wholesale from the 3D Warehouse to the Trainz DLS. It was, rather, my hope that the many excellent models on the 3DWH could be used as starting points and then modified accordingly before being introduced into the Trainz world.

i know just how you feel, but sadly people rarely use tools like this as they were intended, but rather as quick and easy one button click solutions to become 'creators'.

 

[steve123]

Mike, ModelerMJ ,,your program has made so many people far more happier and active in Trainz , it still remains that if these people who do not like assets made with sketchup still and always while have the option to delete them, if a route that they have downloaded has 1,2,3,10 in it then delete that asset and replace it with something else.
please don't stop doing what you are doing Mike, you yourself are an asset to Trainz and to all of us that value what you are doing and have done.
steve

 

[leeferr]

Forgive me, but this seems to be much ado about nothing. The entire process will eventually sort itself out. Every 'creator' eventually develops a reputation. There are some creators that I download everything that they create because they're that good and then there are others that after downloading a few pieces of their content, I never download again. Everyone will eventually learn which 'creators' to shy away from depending on their machine specs and which ones to grab as soon as they become available. It's just a byproduct of people playing around with tools available to them. We'll get some good pieces out of this process and we'll probably get some bad pieces from it, but in the end, it will police itself.

Mike

 

[steve123]

Because ... with Sketch Up you can only take the poly count just so low, and can not lower it far enough to match GMax, Blender, 3D Max.

You will always have a high poly model using Sketch Up.

Talk about thick ... what part about High Poly do you not understand ... Sketch Up will always be High Poly.

What they teach in schools is an "easy way out" High Poly program ... It doesn't match the Quality, Low Poly of better programs.

You can keep on arguing every which way in the book, until you are black and blue in the face ... but Sketch Up will always be High Poly.

View hese 467 pages of Quality assets: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...r-modeling-program)-screenies-renders/page467[/QUOTE

So if you don't like something others are not able to use it TALK ABOUT SELF RIGHTEOUS ,,,,do as i do and no other way and if i don't like it you all can't have it,,,, what joke who made you the ruler

 

[cascaderailroad]

I am ignoring this thread, and fans of Sketch Up.

I even thought of downloading Sketch Up and trying it out ... but then I smacked myself ... and said: Nahhhh !

It's sorta like drinking "Tang" ... when Fresh Frozen Concentrate OJ is available !
http://vintagespace.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/tang.jpg?w=228&h=300
http://peterhirschberg.com/toys/spacefoodsticks/space_food_sticks.png
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsrTjtwFz20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toG6aSQFF7Y&feature=player_embedded

[url]http://www.thehistorybluff.com/?p=2442[/URL]

Close My Thread please

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd6VXLHKIUM

 

[amrail2000]

i know just how you feel, but sadly people rarely use tools like this as they were intended, but rather as quick and easy one button click solutions to become 'creators'.

I down loaded a few of the models just to try them out. Yep, they have an extremely high poly count. also in trainz the mesh doesn't look that good for the ones that I downloaded. So what has taken place is this. This has turned into a team project. I do what I can. Then the model is passed on to the next person who does what they can, and so on. So what has taken place at least on my end, is this has turned into a team effort. While I find it unlikely that these will ever be released, at least we are having fun. To me I think that's all that matters.

 

[angelah]

I was not going to post on this thread at all, but here is my second and last.

Just give people a little slack, that is all I ask. As leeferr says time will sort the question out as to whether or not Sketchup models will stay the course. Aren't we all here to enjoy the Trainz program? We are not creating 'real' objects and running a session in Trainz is not real either. If a person is a rivet counter then I have no problem with that, but equally I have no problem with Thomas the Tank Engine either, each has its place and each can be equally enjoyable.

Can I please ask those that are not very 'keen' on Sketchup to allow those that are to dabble and to do so without tearing them to pieces, and again allow those that have not got the immediate ability to produce sparkling and incredibly detailed assets to keep on trying with whatever tool they find easy to use. Conversely please do make an effort to keep the 'power' of an asset down so said asset will keep Trainz running.

I do not use Sketchup but I did go get it and had a look, so I can speak with a small amount of experience of the program. It looked good to me but then again I was aware of the poly count issue that could become a problem. That caused me not to take it up.

Thanks must go to Mike (ModelerMJ) for putting in effort and time to create helpful utilities that aid users of Sketchup, so Mike, please do continue because every little helps enormously.

Now can we all get back to helping each other? When I joined this forum many years ago this sort of thread was rare, the content of each thread and post was aimed at helping others and that made this forum so great and stand head and shoulders above all others. Let us not lose that, please.

Blessings,

Angela

 

[amigacooke]

I actually have another SketchUp-related tool that is nearing completion and was also to be given away for free; but, sadly, discussions like this give me pause. In any case, I am glad that I have been able to help some, and am sorry that there are those who feel SketchUp (and I suppose, by extension, RubyTMIX) is a blight on the Trainz landscape. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion and I appreciate all the comments, both good and bad.


Regards,
-Mike

Mike, the loudest voices do not always represent the majority view. I hope that you will continue to develop Sketchup related tools so that people can make their own choice as to what is most suitable for them.

 

[amigacooke]

2. i dont think google warehouse is a good soruce for trainz models, and i dont consider those who can simply import models from it to be content creators. they are simply content importers.

If you make content available for Trainz, you are a content creator. Not sure that makes you a better person though.

However, clearly not all content is of the same standard. Even the greats started somewhere.

 

[arraial]

Hi again , im not against skechup program only i consider sketch-up the worst program to create content for trainz this dont mind is not a great program specialty for architects with out acknowledgement of 3d modeling, the problem is the limitations they have for trainz and that's why i dont use then, i cant make animations, cant put dummys and i cant make rolling stock with then also the good tools for optimize and make lods in max dont exists in sketch-up, also the good materials trainz offer for max are impossible for this program to, for make a low poly model in skechup wee must have many experience in other modeling programs to, for some reason when Auran made exporters for modeling content creations they chose gmax as a elected program tool, lather Auran conclude the bather program and they bet all in this program 3dmax creating exporters only for them recently. Take a example and i consider Ocemy the best creator modeler for trainz, they made the great locos only in 3dmax see the great Russian trainz up content creators and Urman Diesel always create in 3dmax program, why??
but.....this dont mind sketch-up cant create good low poly models or have some off them in the warehouse, i particulari have some assets from sketch-up who made very success in the dls , but i refine then and dont export directly, first i export for 3ds format and them rework the all model in max, putting dummys animation refining textures etc, only then export for trainz.

stechup models i have they are high poly models???

the great problem is not sketch-up or the ruby exporter, because for simple static building and objects are fine, the problem is the way they use then.

Downloaded: 12510 1250 polys ... Downloaded:6274 1268 polys ......Downloaded:4441 2800 polys ..... Downloaded:1798 275 polys

Downloaded:641 2.k polys Downloaded:888

arraial

 

[norfolksouthern37]

If you make content available for Trainz, you are a content creator. Not sure that makes you a better person though.

However, clearly not all content is of the same standard. Even the greats started somewhere.

simply importing something from somewhere else made by someone else does not make you a content creator in my opinion. the only thing this person had to do was select an option.

same as making a box in a 3d model program does not make you a modeler

using a brush in photoshop or real life for that matter does not make you an artist.

these kinds of things take practice and hard work. that is a hard reality nobody wants to face.

 

[amigacooke]

using a brush in photoshop or real life for that matter does not make you an artist.

Using a light switch can make you an artist it seems.

Creed lights up Turner prize

 

[steve123]

If only one thing is learnt from this thread then it would be that Sketchup creates hi poly assets, But here is the truth, people have to start somewere with creating something and Sketchup is the easier way to learn
rapping your head around Sketchup gives you a much better idea on how the basic's work in Blender & Gmax & so on.
And think about this how many people has Blender and Gmax turned away because people could not get there head around it to start with.
to them Sketchup is a gift that has long been asked for and now it is here,
the best thing that others can do who use the better programs with less poly is to support others with lesser skills and be more active to incourage and guide thoses who wish to learn and take the next step to better assets.

Please can someone who knows paste sites as to where to download these better progams and also the simplest of tutorials for them and then remain vocal to help others or all your whinning would have been for no perpose

other than to down grade others
steve

 

[Euphod]

using a brush in photoshop or real life for that matter does not make you an artist.

*bursts into tears, runs out of room...*:'(

 

[gawpo50]

simply importing something from somewhere else made by someone else does not make you a content creator in my opinion. the only thing this person had to do was select an option.

same as making a box in a 3d model program does not make you a modeler

using a brush in photoshop or real life for that matter does not make you an artist.

these kinds of things take practice and hard work. that is a hard reality nobody wants to face.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[johnwhelan]

Using Sketchup to create a simple scenery object seems fine to me. If its a six sided box Sketchup isn't too bad. However I don't think it can be used to create the lower poly counts used for lod and typically the resources consumed by a Sketchup asset are far greater than one made in one of the more common tools so you get a triple performance impact, multiple texture files, higher poly counts and no lods.

Unfortunately creating efficient content is more complex than most people would like but that the price you pay to get optimised content and currently I think that most people's computers need optimised content in order to get decent frame rates.

Cheerio John

 

[Barry]

Blender not only can make content but also has an integrated game engine. I make historical maritime routes with it up to 12 miles of mesh for terrain and sea. Using the timeline you can set boat to move on any preset position for hours at a time, stopping and starting at quays; locks and dock gates are easily animated; lift bridges, watermills, swing bridges can all be animated; ships can be launched down ramps, or whatever else you wish to make can be made. Barry. Former Trainz User.

 

[JCitron]

I am glad this thread has remained open.

As I said before I have used Sketchup as well as GMax and 3ds. I can say that Sketchup is pretty awkward to use. I made a factory building as a test and the scaling was awful. When I exported the model the first time, it was about the size of a pixel and got lost on the baseboard! Eventually I did download the buildings I wanted beause they were readily available and I didn't have to go on a field trip, or struggle with the scaling. My patience level has been getting shorter as I get older, so if anything that could be easy takes more than a few minutes to do, I push it aside.

I have also optimized a few of the simple buildings I imported. They all had issues that needed fixing, and none of my exported 3DWH downloads are high poly, or at least they shouldn't be. They are simple buildings. A few had what appeared to be missing faces and I did optimze some that had a weird extra line of polygons near the roof line. In some ways, this is similar to what I've found with a-cad files being imported in the 3ds or other programs. They have a gazillion polygons which are all disconnected and really render horribly, and worse cause stutters in anything that requires multiple frames. Remember my story about the hidden feet. The factory in that scene was originally an Auto-Cad file. In order use the factory, the model had to be optimized. Faces had to be deleted by the thousands, and others flipped due to normalling issues. This was a lot of work for a 20 second introduction.

Sketchup does the job, as we've found out, but it does not have the optimization or the fine-control tools to do things optimally. It's like using fat crayons to color with. They can color, but it's really difficult to stay within the lines. As an alternative to using 3ds Max which is quite expensive, or the older freebie GMax which has its age showing through, is another program called Carra Studio. This is a decent 3d modeler and imports and exports 3ds Max objects as well as old 3ds format files. From what I recall, the program uses the Kolada plug-ins. I'm not sure if anyone has producted an add-on to import and export data to Auran Jet format. The alternative could be to produce the models in Carra Studio, which I've done before and save them out as 3ds models. The models could then be washed through Blender into the Jet format as well as using the UV-Map plug-in for Blender to texture the models.

John

 

[sparky15]

Carrara is a pretty easy to use, full featured, all around modeling and animating package. I got Carrara 6 Pro in a magazine and upgraded to 8 for $40. What little I know in modeling is in this program. Problem is, it's a DAZ product now and DAZ makes it's living selling their 3D characters and morphs for Poser and DAZ Studio. The software is not their main focus outside of DAZ Studio. As feature rich as Carrara is, it gets a bad rap because it's associated with "DAZ Dolly Dial Spinners", it's where the main focus of DAZ users is.
You can find some talented modelers who use Carrara, but it's mostly for rendering and animating Victoria 4 or Michael 4 characters. Very little interest in exporting out of Carrara. The joke is what happens in Carrara, stays in Carrara because of limited export options. Even though SDK packages are available to create exporters.*
Shame because it is such an easy package to learn. Have you seen the tree modeling in it? Since version 7, it has Collada support but if you're going to have to send it to Blender for the Trainz exporter, may as well just use Blender to begin with. Also, normal maps require a $35 plugin.
If you're interested in it, keep an eye out in the 3D magazines. A few months after a new release, DAZ usually puts the last pro version out for free. There's also a book called "Figures and Avatars", or something close that has Carrara 6 Pro, Hexagon 2.5 (a great modeler), an older version of DAZ Studio and a couple of hundred bucks worth of content for $15.
Sad the interest in Carrara is low outside of it's user base. Full featured and dirt cheap. I got 6 Pro for the cost of a magazine and 8 Pro upgrade for $40.

Dave.....