why is TS2009 so slow loading in VISTA
- Thread starter sirgibby
- Start date
Michael,
I see this problem on my machines as well, but in my case, it is very intermittent. Normally, TRS starts up very quickly, but on occassion, it will take 5-10 minutes to load. Because it is so intermittent for me, I have not yet been able to find a trigger or cause.
Curtis
I see this problem on my machines as well, but in my case, it is very intermittent. Normally, TRS starts up very quickly, but on occassion, it will take 5-10 minutes to load. Because it is so intermittent for me, I have not yet been able to find a trigger or cause.
Curtis
Stagefright
Joined Feb 21, 2001
My $0.02
1. It's probably not Vista's fault. Regardless of what a very few people have to rant about, Vista is extremely stable (a lot more than XP ever was) and highly responsive, with a few minor tweaks.
2. You note that the disk access seems excessive. The likely guilty party is either a) your RAID setup or b) Windows Defender.
3. Having never used RAID, but hearing many bad things, is there a way you can disable that, to see if that's your problem?
4. Windows Defender can be disabled in the services.msc applet.
Keep us informed, and good luck!
Darrel
1. It's probably not Vista's fault. Regardless of what a very few people have to rant about, Vista is extremely stable (a lot more than XP ever was) and highly responsive, with a few minor tweaks.
2. You note that the disk access seems excessive. The likely guilty party is either a) your RAID setup or b) Windows Defender.
3. Having never used RAID, but hearing many bad things, is there a way you can disable that, to see if that's your problem?
4. Windows Defender can be disabled in the services.msc applet.
Keep us informed, and good luck!
Darrel
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
i guess is could also point out that Vista does a lot of its own defragging so doing it manually is a waste of time. defrag is not the answer to many things anymore.
Slow Vista Load
I have been using Vista 64 bit, and have had several problems until I changed my video card, but as you said in your letter, trains sometime is dismally slow at loading in my 32 bit machine. One of the reasons I found is the indexing, as Vista goes about indexing specified directories which may take a while.
One remedy is to actually have it index the files in trains, the other solution you may try first is to turn off the indexing.
I have been using Vista 64 bit, and have had several problems until I changed my video card, but as you said in your letter, trains sometime is dismally slow at loading in my 32 bit machine. One of the reasons I found is the indexing, as Vista goes about indexing specified directories which may take a while.
One remedy is to actually have it index the files in trains, the other solution you may try first is to turn off the indexing.
Again thanks for all your thoughts.
Here is what I have done so far
- I have installed and run CCLEANER .. very few problems reported
- I have disabled all non-essential startup prorgams in msconfig
- I have turned off file indexing
- I have moved page file to a different partition from C: drive
- I have uninstalled remote differential compression
- I have changed drive settings in System manager to "optimise for performance"
- I have disabled UAC
- as per PCFormat mag recommendation I have disabled services as below...
"For starters, here is a list of services that can be safely disabled on the vast majority ofcomputers;
I note that, while the disk access doesn't stop, it does significantly reduce and almost stop after about 30 minutes. (I threw this in in case it helps sheds any light on things)
(However TRAINZ still loads very very slowly .. or sometimes seems to lock up during startup .. not sure because after 15 mins I stopped the program)
Is anyone able to tell me (in laymans terms) how RAID 1 works and if it could be that that is slowing down the loading of TRAINZ and if there is anyway of checking it.
I will keep looking.
cheers
Michael
Here is what I have done so far
- I have installed and run CCLEANER .. very few problems reported
- I have disabled all non-essential startup prorgams in msconfig
- I have turned off file indexing
- I have moved page file to a different partition from C: drive
- I have uninstalled remote differential compression
- I have changed drive settings in System manager to "optimise for performance"
- I have disabled UAC
- as per PCFormat mag recommendation I have disabled services as below...
"For starters, here is a list of services that can be safely disabled on the vast majority ofcomputers;
- DFS Replication,
[*]Diagnostic Policy Service,
[*]Distributed Link Tracking Client,
[*]IKE and AuthIP IPsec Keying
[*]Modules, IPsec Policy Agent,
[*]KtmRm for Distributed
[*]Transaction Coordinator, Offl ine
[*]Files, Remote Registry,
[*]Secondary Logon, Security
[*]Center, SSDP Discovery, Tablet PC
[*]Input Service, Terminal Services,
[*]Windows Defender, Windows
[*]Error Reporting Service and Windows Search." PCFORMAT mag
I note that, while the disk access doesn't stop, it does significantly reduce and almost stop after about 30 minutes. (I threw this in in case it helps sheds any light on things)
(However TRAINZ still loads very very slowly .. or sometimes seems to lock up during startup .. not sure because after 15 mins I stopped the program)
Is anyone able to tell me (in laymans terms) how RAID 1 works and if it could be that that is slowing down the loading of TRAINZ and if there is anyway of checking it.
I will keep looking.
cheers
Michael
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OK .. heres an update
I have not solved the problem but just did a complete new and fresh install of TS2009. Heres the results
!st load ... took ages
2nd load (straight out and back in)... about 5 seconds to reload
3rd load (straight out and back in .... about 2 minutes
4th load (straight out and back in ... terminated TRAINZ after waiting for about 30 minutes.
Very frustrating:
If I cannot solve the problem maybe I will have to look at the operating system.
I don't want to but should I
- try re-install Vista over the old one
- restart and install XP (Means a reformat and re-install)
- try WINDOWS 7 RC?
cheers
Michael
I have not solved the problem but just did a complete new and fresh install of TS2009. Heres the results
!st load ... took ages
2nd load (straight out and back in)... about 5 seconds to reload
3rd load (straight out and back in .... about 2 minutes
4th load (straight out and back in ... terminated TRAINZ after waiting for about 30 minutes.
Very frustrating:
If I cannot solve the problem maybe I will have to look at the operating system.
I don't want to but should I
- try re-install Vista over the old one
- restart and install XP (Means a reformat and re-install)
- try WINDOWS 7 RC?
cheers
Michael
I'm not sure you can Re-install Vista over the old version. You could do it with Win98 but not XP. I think you either Repair, do a complete install which means losing your programs or do some silly thing where you can save your programs. That one has never worked for me. Maybe Vista is different.
I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but I got used to it doing repairs for so long:
Did you run CCleaner Registry cleaner between installs? I think Trainz leaves a bit of junk behind when you uninstall it.
Someone mentioned Defender. That's the worst program in the world. If it's there, burn it.
One other possibility. If you have more than one Antivirus program running that could cause issues. They conflict with each other.
If you go for reformatting, I suggest you make a partition just for Trainz. Depending on your disk size and your personal files, 20 gig should be enough.
Win 7 is still in Beta as far as I know. I'd be reluctant tot touch it until SP2 comes out.
I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but I got used to it doing repairs for so long:
Did you run CCleaner Registry cleaner between installs? I think Trainz leaves a bit of junk behind when you uninstall it.
Someone mentioned Defender. That's the worst program in the world. If it's there, burn it.
One other possibility. If you have more than one Antivirus program running that could cause issues. They conflict with each other.
If you go for reformatting, I suggest you make a partition just for Trainz. Depending on your disk size and your personal files, 20 gig should be enough.
Win 7 is still in Beta as far as I know. I'd be reluctant tot touch it until SP2 comes out.
Thanks John
- I have also disabled DEFENDER but it didn't change anything.
- No I am only using AVG which I disabled to check.
If I am to change back to XP (which will mean a reformat) what is involved with the RAID 1 drive setup. Will my XP install automatically pick up this or have I got to do something else?
Its all new stuff for me so I am a little apprehensive.
Thanks
Michael
- Yes I ran CCLEANER before I reinstalled TS2009
- I have also disabled DEFENDER but it didn't change anything.
- No I am only using AVG which I disabled to check.
If I am to change back to XP (which will mean a reformat) what is involved with the RAID 1 drive setup. Will my XP install automatically pick up this or have I got to do something else?
Its all new stuff for me so I am a little apprehensive.
Thanks
Michael
While AVG7.5 was generally regarded as excellent, AVG8 can be a total pain for some users. I found it slowed the computer very significantly and as a result switched to Avast. Your mileage may vary.
John
Once again, this is of no real help.
I tried using RAID some time ago and got into all sorts of strife. I have three hard disks and use an IDE (or SATA) controller card for the third. I'm assuming that you're using RAID for a mirror disk, so maybe as someone has already suggested, there could be a config problem with your RAID hardware or software.
As you have such a powerful setup which would be more complex than most computers in the Trainz community, I strongly suggest that you ask your questions on a more dedicated forum. There will be plenty around and someone out there with more knowledge that most of us here should be able to get you going.
It sounds like you've had the problem from the outset, so even a couple of posts in a couple of different forums wouldn't go astray. It would be a lot faster than reverting to XP only to find you have the same problem.
Good luck
I tried using RAID some time ago and got into all sorts of strife. I have three hard disks and use an IDE (or SATA) controller card for the third. I'm assuming that you're using RAID for a mirror disk, so maybe as someone has already suggested, there could be a config problem with your RAID hardware or software.
As you have such a powerful setup which would be more complex than most computers in the Trainz community, I strongly suggest that you ask your questions on a more dedicated forum. There will be plenty around and someone out there with more knowledge that most of us here should be able to get you going.
It sounds like you've had the problem from the outset, so even a couple of posts in a couple of different forums wouldn't go astray. It would be a lot faster than reverting to XP only to find you have the same problem.
Good luck
You guys are amazing for all your help and suggestions
Well it sounds silly and I need to find out whats going on here but I was clutching at straws and thought that I would give the suggestions above a go ....
I STILL NEED TO TRY THIS FOR A BIT LONGER TO CONFIRM but so far it looks good.
It seems to be the answer!! ..... night and day difference .... TS2009 starts in seconds!!!
Now for the next question ...WHY!!!
I have TS2009 on an XP on the same network with account details entered and it works perfectly.
Why am I having such a problem with this in VISTA. I have given permission for the firewall to pass the TRAINZ program (I have even turned the firewall off to no avail)
Any suggestions down this line would be a help now.
How do I keep my registration details intact but not have this unworkably slow problem (or no run at all) with TS2009?
thanks again
Michael
Well it sounds silly and I need to find out whats going on here but I was clutching at straws and thought that I would give the suggestions above a go ....
I STILL NEED TO TRY THIS FOR A BIT LONGER TO CONFIRM but so far it looks good.
It seems to be the answer!! ..... night and day difference .... TS2009 starts in seconds!!!
Now for the next question ...WHY!!!
I have TS2009 on an XP on the same network with account details entered and it works perfectly.
Why am I having such a problem with this in VISTA. I have given permission for the firewall to pass the TRAINZ program (I have even turned the firewall off to no avail)
Any suggestions down this line would be a help now.
How do I keep my registration details intact but not have this unworkably slow problem (or no run at all) with TS2009?
thanks again
Michael
Michael,
Interesting about the internet access, couple of "diagnostic" questions......
If you load your web browser (IE or whatever) or otherwise connect to the internet on the Vista machine does this take a long time compared to your XP machine?
What build of Trainz 2009 are you running?
(I'm having no problems here with build 38411 and Vista with internet access enabled).
*
Re the hard disc access/RAID issue - I would second what JohnK has said about posting a a question about this on a technical forum (e.g. Tomshardware.co.uk).
Chris
Interesting about the internet access, couple of "diagnostic" questions......
If you load your web browser (IE or whatever) or otherwise connect to the internet on the Vista machine does this take a long time compared to your XP machine?
What build of Trainz 2009 are you running?
(I'm having no problems here with build 38411 and Vista with internet access enabled).
*
Re the hard disc access/RAID issue - I would second what JohnK has said about posting a a question about this on a technical forum (e.g. Tomshardware.co.uk).
Chris
Hi Chris
My internet access appears to be working fine with IE etc and my XP machine on the same router connection is working fine with validation.
iI am having the same issue over different biulds as I have a beta biuld as well. However TRS2006 doesn't appear to have this problem
I can probably forget the Raid issues now as I have found ghe source of the problem with the validation issue
cheers
Michael
My internet access appears to be working fine with IE etc and my XP machine on the same router connection is working fine with validation.
iI am having the same issue over different biulds as I have a beta biuld as well. However TRS2006 doesn't appear to have this problem
I can probably forget the Raid issues now as I have found ghe source of the problem with the validation issue
cheers
Michael
Finally a solution, after months of frustration with TS2009 Betas, and having suggested to Auran that the problem with my Vista 64 installation responding excruciatingly slow (up to an hour's wait) or just not at all and hanging, might be the server hand-shake!
Thank you. So simple! Now TS2009 loads and runs like greased-lightning.
However, this fix remains inconvenient and Auran need to find a permanent solution so that on-line activity is possible, apart from the inconvenience of every time having to re-enter login details in order to use CM2.
Mike
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...forget it...
Not having your details entered it the Launcher or CMP means the Download Helper function is locked...no downloading.
I have Norton 360, works like a charm & you can run it in silent mode for up to six hours before you have to reset.
One of Vistas attributes is how it handles files...that renders manual defragging so five years ago.
It's not the Auran Trainz game that gives Vista fits, it's UAC. If you have a good Internet Security(Norton, Kaspersky, AGV, etc) turn off UAC at the check-box in User Accounts.
My best suggestion is go to the hard drive location(main drive), & create a new folder named like this....mine...C:/TRS2006 & C:/TS2009.
Move all folders in the former Program Files Auran Folder by game smallest to largest into the respective folders.
Use the .exe file to run the game by right-click Run as Admin. This loads the game so CMP can find itself...
Change or make new Shortcuts for you Start Lists.
Trainz runs instantly this way, not needing permissions to start, CMP or CMv2 opens & runs instantly, CCP gets to work quick, you can go from CMP into the game & back in about twenty seconds.
The right-click Run as Admin should be used when installing any program.
Gmax is installed to the same location...C:/gmax. This & someone posted this tip awhile back & I took advantage of it & it works wonderfully.
For programs that wish to go online this simplifies loading & exe of the file.
This made TS2009 run so well I had to take myself off beta testing because I have only a margin of problems others have frequently.
Not having your details entered it the Launcher or CMP means the Download Helper function is locked...no downloading.I have Norton 360, works like a charm & you can run it in silent mode for up to six hours before you have to reset.
One of Vistas attributes is how it handles files...that renders manual defragging so five years ago.
It's not the Auran Trainz game that gives Vista fits, it's UAC. If you have a good Internet Security(Norton, Kaspersky, AGV, etc) turn off UAC at the check-box in User Accounts.
My best suggestion is go to the hard drive location(main drive), & create a new folder named like this....mine...C:/TRS2006 & C:/TS2009.
Move all folders in the former Program Files Auran Folder by game smallest to largest into the respective folders.
Use the .exe file to run the game by right-click Run as Admin. This loads the game so CMP can find itself...
Change or make new Shortcuts for you Start Lists.
Trainz runs instantly this way, not needing permissions to start, CMP or CMv2 opens & runs instantly, CCP gets to work quick, you can go from CMP into the game & back in about twenty seconds.
The right-click Run as Admin should be used when installing any program.
Gmax is installed to the same location...C:/gmax. This & someone posted this tip awhile back & I took advantage of it & it works wonderfully.
For programs that wish to go online this simplifies loading & exe of the file.
This made TS2009 run so well I had to take myself off beta testing because I have only a margin of problems others have frequently.
"It's not the Auran Trainz game that gives Vista fits, it's UAC. If you have a good Internet Security(Norton, Kaspersky, AGV, etc) turn off UAC at the check-box in User Accounts."
Thanks for the tips. However, turning off UAC does not work, according to the experience of other posters in the forums who are having this TS2009 problem. It is also not recommended by the majority of Vista experts, regardless of whether you have excellent security otherwise installed, as I do too. UAC is also non-disruptive to anything else I have on my system (Trainz, TS2004, TS2006, TC3, MSTS, RailSimulator, Railworks [+Steam], BVE, OpenBVE, X-Plane etc., etc.).
Cheers.
Mike
Thanks for the tips. However, turning off UAC does not work, according to the experience of other posters in the forums who are having this TS2009 problem. It is also not recommended by the majority of Vista experts, regardless of whether you have excellent security otherwise installed, as I do too. UAC is also non-disruptive to anything else I have on my system (Trainz, TS2004, TS2006, TC3, MSTS, RailSimulator, Railworks [+Steam], BVE, OpenBVE, X-Plane etc., etc.).
Cheers.
Mike
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