Why do so few routes make it to the DLS ?

[dangavel]

I would not even consider the complaints. The people who know how much work you put in are very appreciative. The whiners can go to day care.

The worst instance I've had is after I made a new version of the Timber Ridge line, a large portion was 30 inch and most of the rolling stock was either outdated, or on third party sites where the locos would not run in TANE, the updates and other RS that had been on third party sites that no longer operated were mostly hosted on external illicit sites.It caused me endless hassle to get people informed as to where the items were as without them about a third of the route was a waste.

This is why I'm so against external sites being the only places you can find certain assets, it can cause havoc for anyone who wants to update.
As much as I would like to use them, as long as I am making routes for the DLS, I will no longer patronize third party sites ,as one never knows when it will disappear into the ether and then, if you use any assets that are exclusive to that site in a route , it will no longer function or will need massive substutions.

To avoid the same problem when I made a mostly standard gauge version of Timber Ridge I removed the 30inch sections and made them all 3ft as most of those items ARE on the DLS. Lot of work to do so and it meant that one of the few 30 icnh routes ceased to be at least for TRS 2019 and above....... and all because the original content creators didn't want their work on the DLS.

 

[pware]

I fully agree but I accept that creators should always be free to decide where and how their work will be distributed. If they won't place their assets on the DLS then that is their decision just as it is my (and your) decision to not use their non-DLS assets.

As noted above there is always the risk of a hosting site disappearing entirely from the Internet - and I have seen this happen more than once. In one case that I can recall the host of the site uploaded all his Trainz content to the DLS before he "pulled the plug", a gesture that I applauded. But others have vanished without any warning or similar gesture.

The saga of missing or illegal "Thomas The Tank Engine" assets is a common theme in these forums.

As I have previously posted I have two working (non-beta) installs of Trainz. My main Trainz Plus development install has a modest selection of DLC content. I also have an install of TRS22PE which has no DLC assets. I do not have any assets from external web sites or non-DLS sources on either install. I use the TRS22PE install to test my created routes and sessions to ensure that all the content in those assets is either built-in to TRS22 or from the DLS. "Packaged" assets are allowed if they can also be found on the DLS. So when I upload a route/session to the DLS I know that it will not force users into the endless game of "hunt the missing asset".

My thoughts.

 

[boleyd]

If N3V had the money they could hire someone to curate new customer projects and assist in securing difficult to find elements. After all customer contributions have been the life-blood of N3V since the beginning. Without new customer contributions (of quality) N3V would be on a dead-end.

 

[IsambardKingdomBrunel]

My personal view is that freeware is beyond reproach and definitely above criticism.

Payware on the other hand is fair game, you take my money it better be good.

Mike.

 

[fant_autentico]

My personal view is that freeware is beyond reproach and definitely above criticism.

Payware on the other hand is fair game, you take my money it better be good.

Mike.

I totally agree

 

[JimDep]

I would not even consider the complaints. The people who know how much work you put in are very appreciative. The whiners can go to day care.

The Twilight Zone......

That's for sure.......and some " Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" thrown in.

 

[JimDep]

I would not even consider the complaints. The people who know how much work you put in are very appreciative. The whiners can go to day care.

I agree to a point. When I edit the colors on structures, houses, vegetation, etc to try to make them look as real as possible for my own viewing, I don't know how that's going to transfer to somebody else's computer / monitor set up. I'd have to also get the content creators permission to do that on anything that isn't mine .
Another concern is that when getting all the rules in place for industries and train movements, are they going to work the same way as they should for others. That can be a real time consuming" needle in a haystack" to try and resolve just for my self, and then wonder if it's going to work right for others . Take each problem as they arise

Now I have to see if can create a cat carrier big enough to try and catch that kitty to get him back in GMAX to try and scale him back to the right size. I don't want my engineers having heart attacks when they come around the curve and see that monster cat blocking the way.

 

[mapsgame]

In 2003 when I purchased Trainz Ultimate, I was thrilled at the prospect of re-starting my love for model railroading, having abandoned the HO layout started by my grandfather, and continued by my uncle and I in my youth. Model railroading is probably what lead me to become a civil engineer and urban planner. I’ve been supporting Auran & N3V with my regular purchases of the next Trainz version thoroughly enjoying the creation of others’ routes and sessions from the DLS or as DLC. Until I retired there was not much time for route creation as family, career, and building in the real world consumed my time. But now I have the time and this thread gave a lot of information to unpack related to content creation, route building and more so about the longevity of a model railroad built in Trainz.

I selected the southwestern part of the USA as the area of interest for modeling in Trainz since that is where I now live. The Cajon Pass, UP, SP, and BNSF trackage from Los Angeles to Las Vegas has a great appeal to me for modeling the Cajon Pass grades, Barstow Yards, proposed new BNSF Gateway International Gateway intermodal rail facility, and the Brightline West high speed rail line between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. I searched the forum and DLS for routes for inspiration and found several for Cajon Pass. One route 3rd party site had more than 100 miles of trackage based on TransDem and nearly a hundred assets created by the modeler that were not in the DLS and showed up as unknown. The route was unfinished when the creator had retired from the Trainz community several years ago. I contacted the creator, who responded, and requested they relinquish rights so I could update the TANE route, finish it and publish it on the DLS with full credit to them and with no request to make it pay ware. The response was “If you strongly feel that the community could benefit from it, get use out of it then I suppose so.” Saying I suppose so doesn’t relinquish the rights so no update will be coming. I am fine with their decision but don’t fully understand the reluctance.

The content you share on the DLS is your Trainz legacy. In this thread its obvious many of you have spent thousands of hours over decades on your Trainz creations, whether for your own personal use, for sharing on the DLS, or as creator content for your 3rd party website. Given the passion that members of the community have for Trainz, what surprises me most is a desire to pass on a creator’s content legacy to others in the Trainz community. I believe it was @Forester1 who suggested this in 2021 and @oknotsen who created a sicky for creators to declare relinquishing rights, all be it buried in the Suggestion Boxcar. Sticky thread or forum declaring relinquishing of rights | Trainz (auran.com) It is incomprehensible to me that someone with the passion for Trainz after all those years of creating content would not want to keep their legacy alive by relinquishing their content rights before retiring from Trainz. Several well know creators in the forum have seen this happen far too often and have posted timely statements about reskinning or relinquishing rights to their creations. Thinking about one’s creation legacy is perhaps something creators should consider earlier rather than later before it’s too late.

So now, on to rebuilding Cajon Pass and hopefully creating my own legacy.

 

[JCitron]

The sad reality is nothing is forever both good and bad as my grandmother said very succinctly about something I can't remember now.

As time wears on, we face another issue with content. As content ages, it becomes less fashionable and moves to the wayside as users have become more and more picky and the newer Trainz have become more demanding. A once busy website then becomes a dead siding somewhere as the original content creator loses interest in updating his wares. The old site lingers on and then suddenly a disaster may strike and everything is gone suddenly never to return. The simple reason is with declining visitors, there was no impetus to bring the old site and content back online again.

But, age not only with content but also with the content creators. Sadly, we've recently lost a number of the best content creators we've ever had. For all but one, their families allowed community members access to their content to allow future generations to enjoy it as much as we have. As users, we were lucky and mostly missed the bullet this time. We may not be lucky in the future. This may sound selfish, but it's reality when the community relies on the content these people created.

Peter Pardue Matthews (Narrowgauge), a longtime elder community member, content creator, and narrow-gauge enthusiast, posted something in the forums some time ago that pretty much summed it up. What happens to the content when a person dies? There was a lengthy discussion, as always happens here in the forums, but it was a good discussion on the matter.

 

[JCitron]

Yeah, well he was just laying on the porch of that house he's next to when I saved the route and closed it down........and then when I reopened it........something strange happened. Does this ever happen to you ?

Yes!

My late fluffy cat sisters Lulu and Lilly used to invade my N-scale layout pull on wires and steal things. I had just finished laying track and wiring everything up when Lilly came in and yanked the wire harness under the layout and ripped the solder joints. While she was doing that, her sister Lulu was on top stealing boxcars and buildings. That was while I was in the room working on another part of this 2 x 6 x 2 x 6 L-shaped layout!

Prior to that, I had gotten home from work one day to find a train sitting on the parlor floor along with some buildings. I blamed my 3- or 4-year-old nephew for taking them off the layout and playing with them. When I spoke with my sister, she told me it wasn't Shawn and that the cat stole the trains and stuff. Oh yeah, I said, and blamed her for covering for him. Little did I know... I apologized afterwards.

That along with the rest of my sister's kids moving in clinched the layout building and thus my move to Trainz.

 

[JimDep]

Yes!

My late fluffy cat sisters Lulu and Lilly used to invade my N-scale layout pull on wires and steal things. I had just finished laying track and wiring everything up when Lilly came in and yanked the wire harness under the layout and ripped the solder joints. While she was doing that, her sister Lulu was on top stealing boxcars and buildings. That was while I was in the room working on another part of this 2 x 6 x 2 x 6 L-shaped layout!

Prior to that, I had gotten home from work one day to find a train sitting on the parlor floor along with some buildings. I blamed my 3- or 4-year-old nephew for taking them off the layout and playing with them. When I spoke with my sister, she told me it wasn't Shawn and that the cat stole the trains and stuff. Oh yeah, I said, and blamed her for covering for him. Little did I know... I apologized afterwards.

That along with the rest of my sister's kids moving in clinched the layout building and thus my move to Trainz.

I've got a old cat named Lilly too. She's a Persian that would be very capable of swiping N scale box cars and hiding them. All my model railroad stuff has been in boxes since I got into Trainz when they first came out.

 

[dangavel]

Well here's a classic example of just why routes don't make it, i updated my timber ridge route a few months back in 2022, but I've just gone to upload it and find that all the rmm tress have become faulty due to faulty dependencies ---flashing on and off from a distance , textel problem apparently , whatever that is. I fired it up in 2022 PE i just do not have the time to replace them all or to troubleshoot this unless there is a really simple solution so that's another route that nobodies gonna get to use, has anyone else come across this issue ?
update

I applied a patch sp4 ......which seems to have fixed the problem...... now lets see if there are any other big issues before i attempt to upload..

 

[martinvk]

Not the solution in every case but bulk update could be the answer in some cases, especially for trees where the absolute orientation is not that critical.

 

[johnwhelan]

The content you share on the DLS is your Trainz legacy. In this thread its obvious many of you have spent thousands of hours over decades on your Trainz creations, whether for your own personal use, for sharing on the DLS, or as creator content for your 3rd party website. Given the passion that members of the community have for Trainz, what surprises me most is a desire to pass on a creator’s content legacy to others in the Trainz community. I believe it was @Forester1 who suggested this in 2021 and @oknotsen who created a sicky for creators to declare relinquishing rights, all be it buried in the Suggestion Boxcar. Sticky thread or forum declaring relinquishing of rights | Trainz (auran.com) It is incomprehensible to me that someone with the passion for Trainz after all those years of creating content would not want to keep their legacy alive by relinquishing their content rights before retiring from Trainz. Several well know creators in the forum have seen this happen far too often and have posted timely statements about reskinning or relinquishing rights to their creations. Thinking about one’s creation legacy is perhaps something creators should consider earlier rather than later before it’s too late.

Not all content meets the requirements for the DLS. Photo textures for example can be a problem if you don't own the copyright but they are licensed cc-by-sa for non commercial use.

Also reskins can be a problem, some of my content has been updated due to changing N3V requirements three or four times. There are several hundred reskins of my work on the DLS that I'm unable to correct on the reskinner can't be bothered to correct them.

Cheerio John

 

[Driver_Col]

Who says? Who is the judge of your work and efforts? My philosophy has always been that if someone is not satisfied with my work then they are more than welcome to put in the effort (months, years) to do a better job. I will look forward to critiquing their efforts .


No-one could ever answer that question. I have always built assets that I needed and that I was interested in. I never conducted an opinion poll on what others wanted me to build. Why couldn't they build it themselves (and do a far better job in the process)? Of course if someone is willing to pay me for my time and efforts then that could be a different matter - but I am not cheap. I have expensive tastes in wine and food, a partner and a cat (both with equally expensive tastes) to look after.


My current real-life project, which has been on and off for several years now, is 280 miles in total (including all branch lines) and runs at an average speed of 30-40 mph (in different parts) and would take 7-9 hours to traverse which is close to the actual timetables of that era.

Part of the beauty of Trainz is that you can use an existing route in many different ways, most of them were not even remotely considered as possible by the original creator. So some-one runs a French TGV passenger express on your stone quarry route. Let them! It is a hobby and for their enjoyment after all.

Not everyone will be interested in my current project - the historically (or, if you prefer, hysterically) correct recreation of a narrow gauge railway from the 1950s in the Aussie Outback. But no-one is forcing them to download and use it. Just as I am not really interested in North American or European railways of any era. That is another great thing about Trainz - you can pick and choose what you want from the DLS and DLC.

Don't waste time worrying about what others want, do you own thing.
My opinions.

Totally agree with you. I did have a complaint about one of my Routes some time ago now, and my response then (as it would be now) is to suggest that they simply delete the Route if they are not happy with it. Regards. Colin.

 

[JCitron]

Totally agree with you. I did have a complaint about one of my Routes some time ago now, and my response then (as it would be now) is to suggest that they simply delete the Route if they are not happy with it. Regards. Colin.

I said that to someone ages ago. I also told many very demanding people that they can open Surveyor, install (purchase) TransDEM and start building. That usually ends it right there.

 

[MountE]

I'm a not builder of routes. I downloaded far to many routes over the years. If a route is very good but has a small error, I'll let the builder know so if he wants he can fix it. Many route builders don't really run their routes.
Since many routes are always in progress, the author may said " I'll fix it in the next update" or "Go ahead and fix it for yourself". I would never complain about the way route looks and if it was really bad I would delete it without comment.

 

[JCitron]

I'm a not builder of routes. I downloaded far to many routes over the years. If a route is very good but has a small error, I'll let the builder know so if he wants he can fix it. Many route builders don't really run their routes.
Since many routes are always in progress, the author may said " I'll fix it in the next update" or "Go ahead and fix it for yourself". I would never complain about the way route looks and if it was really bad I would delete it without comment.

I've done that many times. A route may appear impressive by the images and description only to be meh. I'll delete it and move on.

As a route builder, meaning I spend 99.9999% of my time fiddling in Surveyor, I will say that there's a lot to it and little "things" are found all the time as time goes on. I'm still finding things to fix in my longtime project started over 2 decades ago.

 

[dangavel]

Procrastination is the thief of time , but I'd also say that perfectionism is too. I used to teach ' gifted and talented" students, many of them failed because in their desire to complete the perfect project, they never actually completed the work , my attitude now is, " the work will never be perfect and given the state of flux in the nv3 world, it never can be because what might be complete in 2019 will not be in 2024. " and to illustrate this, some very early textures that displayed correctly in my last version of the Timber ridge have now become bright purple, red and yellow for some reason when viewed from a distance, I've replaced them, but who knows what the next version of the game will do to any asset ?

So , what I'm going to do soon is release a newer version of one of my routes which is slightly incomplete , I don't have time to complete this little corner of the route , as I have other projects to complete , it might get completed in the future ,it may not.

I find many people make their own changes to routes anyway , I used to do it myself which is what got me into route building in the first place , so if they don't like something about the route they can make the changes themselves .

Every time I review what I've done, I see mistakes ,but if I allowed it myself to get hung upon that I'd never release anything . I've never been able to create things purely for myself ,if others don't use it, I can't see the point in making it. I like to share.

Nothing wrong if you don't btw, it's all personal preference .

 

[JCitron]

Well said, Dan. That thief of time is what gets me with a lot of projects both with route and session creation and my music projects.